Premiere vs Vegas

[viveresempre]

Hello all.

I am pleased to have recently joined this site and the world of video. I am sorry if this has been gone over and asked many times before, but this forum has a lot of archived posts and I can't seem to sort through all the hits i get for " Premiere" and "Vegas" etc.
I am looking at programs, and Adobe and Sony seem to be the leaders. I am deciding between the Adobe Video Collection Standard (includes Premiere Pro 1.5, After Effects Standard, Audition and Encore DVD) for $429, or Vegas 5.0 + DVD, for $289 (these are both reduced educational prices). I can also get Vegas 5 without the DVD authoring for $189. That's one expensive DVD authoring program...

Anyway, with your expertise could any of you recomend one of these two options? I would appreciate it. Has anyone used both Premiere Pro and Vegas? That would be best.

Thanks a lot.

Sempre

[thecoalman]

ding,ding,ding

[viveresempre]

? Thanks...

[canadateck]

Here we go again




Sony Vegas and After Effects .....Rocks

[edDV]

Both are good. I use both.

You need to tell us more about the types of editing you want to do and which "community" fits you.

independent films (Sundance style)
independent documentary style videos
ad agency driven commercials
event presentation
corporate marketing packages
training videos
computer animation
news style stories or magazines
TV promos or show openings (many layers)
wedding videos
music videos
home movies with canned effects
editing backups or TV captures
other

I won't pre-bias you.

[viveresempre]

Thanks for the replies. Yes, you're right, I should specify, edDV. I am an independent, young, aspiring cinematographer/editor/director. I am focused on artistic cinematography and good-looking film. I recently got a PV-GS400 camera. I am hoping to be able to make short, plot-driven movies, as well as purely visual/audio stuff. I don't like sacrificing quality.

Hope this helps. Thanks

[Soopafresh]

Both have 30 day trials. Install them BOTH, and see which you like.

[edDV]

For that community, you may want to look at Avid Xpress DV with the idea of moving up into 24P film style editing.

Vegas is an integrated tool best for indepentent videographers who want the majority of tools in one package.

Premiere Pro is part of a suite of tools. Its main strength is integration of elements prepared in other Adobe products. This works best in mixed media corporate projects where elements prepared for print publication can be easily repurposed for video promotion, ads and presentations.

[thecoalman]

? Thanks...

Here we go again
Sony Vegas and After Effects .....Rocks

Need I say more?

Seriously though save your self some cash and get Ulead Quartet the true King. :P


Really serious..... I'd listen to what EdDV has to say on the matter and ignore people such as myself.

[guns1inger]

If you are really serious about doing this, buy a mac, run OS X and Final Cut Pro. As good as Premiere and Vegas are, they are not used by by real film makers. Avid yes, FCP yes. Premiere and Vegas are semi-pro and high-end amateur. Soderberg, Avery - they cut in FCP.

[viveresempre]

"Premiere Pro is part of a suite of tools." edDV, do you mean the video collection I mentioned? You say that Vegas is for people looking for everything in one package. If I can get the Adobe video collection I described for only ~$40 more than the Vegas 5 + DVD package, which would I go for?

"Both have 30 day trials. Install them BOTH, and see which you like."
I don't really think it's a matter of liking them, but which is better for me. Plus, I don't trust my objectivity, as I am used to the Adobe Photoshop style of interface that Premiere has. I have installed the Premiere trial, but I haven't downloaded Vegas.

"If you are really serious about doing this, buy a mac, run OS X and Final Cut Pro."
I don't have royal coffers of gold coins, unfortunately. But good point.

Thanks to all for your help. I'm just learning, and your advice is appreciated.

[guns1inger]

I use Photoshop a lot - phot restoration, DVD menu design, sketching (poorly) etc., but I have never really liked premiere. I give it a go every time a new version comes out, to see if things click. On the other hand, I have used Vegas since Version 3 and always been happy with it. Premiere has by far the larger range of plugins, if you are looking to extend it's capabilities, although Vegas does have a few of it's own.

You can do pretty much the same things in either of them, so it really then comes down to how you like to work, and what best fits your mindset.

[edDV]

"viveresempre"]"Premiere Pro is part of a suite of tools." edDV, do you mean the video collection I mentioned?

Those plus Photoshop, Illustrator, GoLive, InDesign ... all the Adobe products ...
http://www.adobe.com/products/main.html

Far more than one person can master. The whole suite is intended for a team effort. Premiere alone is a good editor but in my opionion, a bit stiff compared to Avid which is designed as a long form editor.

You say that Vegas is for people looking for everything in one package. If I can get the Adobe video collection I described for only ~$40 more than the Vegas 5 + DVD package, which would I go for?

Although I still use Premiere, they began to loose me when they changed to an acquisition strategy for advanced functions (COSA, Cakewalk, etc.) that forced you to buy multiple applications to support adequate effects, audio and DVD authoring. Since these add-on products were 3rd party designed, the user interface became less than fluid and a bit forced.

Vegas was a ground up effort, built on top of a good audio editor. The core product has 80% of the audio, effects and editing functions that a "one man band" would need for most projects. Everything works together well once you get used to it. Graphics can be easily imported from Photoshop. DVD Architect has that "tacked on feel" similar to Encore but it has most of the functionality needed to get out a pro looking DVD.

On the Adobe side, After Effects and Audition go well beyond my needs and are difficult to use if you don't use them all the time. So for me, I find Vegas+DVD more integrated and efficient for graphics intensive projects.

You said your goal is "aspiring cinematographer/editor/director. I am focused on artistic cinematography and good-looking film." That to me says more focus on learning film style single camera acquistion technique, lighting and production skills. It also implies an editing focus in post rather than heavy effects and audio technique.

To me, this shouts AVID. Avid also has more street creds in the indi film community. This should be filtered by what is used in any film school you are considering. You can't beat Avid for cutting long format work.

Avid has an academic special - Avid ExPress Pro for $295
http://www.academicsuperstore.com/market/marketdisp.html?PartNo=728065&qk_srch=avid
and other versions and options
http://www.academicsuperstore.com/market/marketlist.html?PHPSESSID=957a39de2fea59ba4d5...s_platform=Win

Give it some thought and do your research.
The good news is all of these suites are highly useful.

[dcsos]

VEGAS has become the Video Editor of Choice on WINDOWS if you can't afford AVID

AVID requires hardware

VEGAS & PREMIERE work with the box you've got.

VEGAS has less 'classic video editor' style interface,
but because PREMIERE became buggy over the years, VEGAS is a more solid choice, especially with this useful but not always necessary and needlessly cash-intensive "suite of tools" approach........ that has become PREMIERE's option

[Richard_G]

Review on Premiere Pro

http://www.pcplus.co.uk/reviews/default.asp?pagetypeid=2&articleid=27617&subsectionid=...ubsectionid=66

Review on Sony Vegas

http://www.pcplus.co.uk/reviews/default.asp?pagetypeid=2&articleid=32039&subsectionid=...ubsectionid=66

At the end of the day, all decent editing suites will do the same thing, it's down to how well you get on with using them. There is never going to be a best, what is best for one person isn't for another. Personally, I don't use either, I use Ulead Mediastudio Pro. It may not be others choice, but I've got used to using it and can concentrate on getting the output I require and not on figuring out how to use the software to get that output.

[viveresempre]

Thanks to all, espec. edDV. I am beginning to understand the options. I am going to look into Avid, and look around a bit more.

Thanks

[edDV]

Thanks to all, espec. edDV. I am beginning to understand the options. I am going to look into Avid, and look around a bit more.

Thanks

As you check Avid and others, you may want to call them to verify your GS-400 camcorder and other hardware is supported.

[viveresempre]

Yes, thanks. BTW, does AVID have a real steep learning curve? And why do I not hear of it much? Also, is the educational version any different from the normal? (It is ~$1000 cheaper after all).

Thanks

[dcsos]

And why do I not hear of it much?

You probably don't hear of AVID because they use it professionally
and don't need as much advertising (above a certain budget, everyone uses it)

Avid turns the who system into a propietary media machine to the point
that its not advisable to install certain software alongside AVID (if you have a service contact from AVID they won't let you)
but it works when
you need to turn out work without waiting for uncooperative PC's
running lesser apps.

[edDV]

Yes, thanks. BTW, does AVID have a real steep learning curve? And why do I not hear of it much? Also, is the educational version any different from the normal? (It is ~$1000 cheaper after all).

Thanks

There is a free demo version you can try, just like the others.
Learninig curves for all of these are equally steep, but you can learn a step at a time.

http://www.avid.com/products/xpress.asp
http://www.avid.com/freedv/faq.asp

Probably 75% of feature films, TV series and documentaries are edited with Avid. It owns the high end and the independent film world. Apple is trying to break in from below with FCP.

Avid Xpress DV, Pro and HD are targeted at the lower end independent producers and smaller production houses using self contained computers.

Demos are free. Try the three user interfaces and see which you like. Call Avid and ask for the full XPress demo. FreeDV is not very representative.

[viveresempre]

Thank you both. Sounds like a good bet.

dcsos

to the point
that its not advisable to install certain software alongside AVID

What do oyu mean? Are you saying I can practically only use my computer for AVID if I install it?

[dcsos]

Your results may vary, but yes...use the box for editing only...because AVID doesn't play so well with others...
And in my experience, its worth not distrubing that...it has all the companion apps you need from DIGIDESIGN or third party partners...
You only connect to the internet to get AVID updates, or upload client files

[edDV]

Some forums to monitor

http://www.dmnforums.com/cgi-bin/displaywwugindex.fcgi?forum=adobe_premiere
http://www.dmnforums.com/cgi-bin/displaywwugindex.fcgi?forum=avid_xpress-dv
http://www.dmnforums.com/cgi-bin/displaywwugindex.fcgi?forum=sonic-foundry_vegas

http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/
http://www.dvcentral.org/index.html#About

http://www.tek-tips.com/threadminder.cfm?pid=230
http://www.dvshop.ca/dvcafe/dv/avid.html
http://www.blue7media.com/vegas/

more:
http://www.creativecow.net/forum/view_posts.php?forumid=3
http://www.creativecow.net/forum/view_posts.php?forumid=45
http://www.creativecow.net/forum/view_posts.php?forumid=24

[viveresempre]

Thank you both. Is it a problem that I don't have a dedicated editing PC, and I use it for photoshop, some games etc? I will check those forums.
BTW, is there anything in Avid Xpress Pro that isn't in the educational version. It is $1100 cheaper, so it seems reasonable...
Thanks

[Redd]

Vegas 5 + DVD

[viveresempre]

Thanks Redd. edDV et al I'm looking at the AVID webpage, and it looks as though you need one of several "approved" workstations to run it. The cheapest workstation ( and I don't have a workstation right now) is ~$2500. I think I'm in over my head, as I can't invest in such an expenisve new computer just for my video editing right now.
Am I wrong?

[edDV]

Administration of the Avid may be an issue. I doubt it needs a specialized workstation to run. They are probably talking about maxing extreme features.

If it were me, I'd go ask in the AVID forums from real users.

Otherwise, flip a coin on Premire vs Vegas

Added: Here is what AVID says. Keep in mind that you can option this up to a very sophisticated system with external hardware or you can run it from software only. The work stations are for power users and can simplify support issues for highly optioned systems.

"PC

Avid provides PC users with a variety of system options for Avid Xpress Pro. You may choose to configure your own system based on the minimum specifications listed below or you may choose a system that has been qualified by Avid's internal test team. "

[BJ_M]

If you are really serious about doing this, buy a mac, run OS X and Final Cut Pro. As good as Premiere and Vegas are, they are not used by by real film makers. Avid yes, FCP yes. Premiere and Vegas are semi-pro and high-end amateur. Soderberg, Avery - they cut in FCP.

that is utter bollocks .. you have no clue what you are saying ..

http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/survey/survey.jsp?mode=showresult&msg=

[viveresempre]

Thanks to the moderator for moderating the moderately incorrect info.

[edDV]

Add FCP as the 4th major player.

Each of these programs has a user community and culture. Each has a major learning curve that takes years. If you are serious, you will sample each and find your fit.

I steered you to Avid based on your interest in long form film style production. That is the primary culture at Avid. Each of the other products will have a subset of users using their product that way. Sample the forums and support sites because you will need to rely on those folks in the future.