Limitation of DVD-Video recorded by DVD Recorder?

[ckwok1]

On every DVD recorder I know, when a DVD-video format disc is finalized, chapter marks are set at regular interval instead of setting at user defined point.

For example, on the JVC DR-M10S, chapter marks can be defined by user for a DVD-RW in DVD-Video format before finalized. But once finalized, user defined chapter marks are not used. However, if the disc is un-finalized, user defined chapter marks become available again.

Is this a limitation of the DVD-Video formatted disc recorded by DVD recorder?

Another way to look at this question: Is there any DVD recorder able to set chapter according to user defined chapter marks on a finalized DVD-video disc. Note that I am asking about DVD-Video format disc, not DVD-VR or DVD+VR format disc.

Thanks in advance.

[Captain Satellite]

I know that my Panasonic E80H does.

[hech54]

I'm not sure I follow you.
My chapter markers are exactly where I want them on any disc finalized or not on my Philips recorder.

[ckwok1]

I know that my Panasonic E80H does.

Are you sure? E65 doesn't. Note that I am talking about DVD-video format. In other words, you need to use DVD-R on Panasonic DVD recorder.

From the E65 manual:

After finalizing
oThe disc becomes play-only and you can no longer record
or edit.
oTitles are divided into about 5-minute chapters.

[Captain Satellite]

Am I sure? Well, I do it just about every day.

[ckwok1]

I'm not sure I follow you.
My chapter markers are exactly where I want them on any disc finalized or not on my Philips recorder.

I believe Philips uses DVD+VR format, is that right?

[hech54]

So I'm told....but once the disc is finalized it reads as a DVD-ROM booktype.
I've never noticed my finalized discs reacting any differently than other DVD's....factory pressed or from other peoples recorders.
There used to be some computer software issues with my Philips discs...but that was quite a while ago. My Philips discs actually react better to computer software than most factory pressed DVD's....as far as editing goes.

[Captain Satellite]

I know that my Panasonic E80H does.

Are you sure? E65 doesn't. Note that I am talking about DVD-video format. In other words, you need to use DVD-R on Panasonic DVD recorder.

From the E65 manual:

After finalizing
oThe disc becomes play-only and you can no longer record
or edit.
oTitles are divided into about 5-minute chapters.

I told you that I had the E80H. Why are you quoting that manual in your response? What do you want me to do, send you a copy of 'Austin City Limits' with chapter markers at the beginning every song?

[hech54]

To me there seems to be this misunderstanding or misconception that the VR "thing" that DVD Recorders do is some bastard child put on this earth to make peoples lives miserable and that is just not the case....it is just something that DVD Recorders do...that's all.
There are no VR format discs for sale on the shelves at Best Buy and last time I checked..I cannot make a VR format disc from scratch on my computer....it is just part of the process of some DVD Recorders....at least to me...

[ckwok1]

I told you that I had the E80H. Why are you quoting that manual in your response? What do you want me to do, send you a copy of 'Austin City Limits' with chapter markers at the beginning every song?

Okay. From the manual of E80H, in the section "Marking places to play again—MARKER"

o Markers are cleared when you finalize DVD-R

No offence here. I just want to make sure. E65 is a newer model so I think it should have more features .....

[Captain Satellite]

I give up. My markers are intact after I finalize. PM your address and I'll send something to you, THEN come post again, amigo.

[ann coates]

I have used both the Panasonic E80 and E85 and can echo Captain Satellite that chapter marks are held after finalizing a disc. I have played these discs on my friends players as well (different makes and models) and all the chapter marks I created are there. Note that you must use high speed dubbing for the chapter markers to remain.

Regarding your quote from the manual where it states they don't remain, this is because that is for regular dubbing. In the section on high speed dubbing there is a passage that states they do. So again you need to use high speed dubbing for this feature to work.

[Frobozz]

Is there any DVD recorder able to set chapter according to user defined chapter marks on a finalized DVD-video disc. Note that I am asking about DVD-Video format disc, not DVD-VR or DVD+VR format disc.

I'll tell you one brand that won't do it: Pioneer. If you are recording directly to a video-mode DVD the Pioneer will place chapter markers in 10 or 15-minute increments depending on how you set up the preferences. The only way to get manually entered chapter markers while recording directly to the DVD is to press the pause key while recording. Unlike your JVC, a Pioneer will not let you place chapter markers on a video-mode DVD-RW prior to finalization.

However, if you record to the HDD on a 510H-S or 520H-S then you can enter chapter markers that will be transferred to the video-mode DVD.

I can transfer the MPEGs from the DVD to my Mac and use CaptyDVD to enter manual chapter markers (and create a chapter menu) and author a new video DVD.

[Cornucopia]

Pioneer's Top of the Line industrial deck (XMLP?? something) does allow you to set chapters anywhere you want. It records to HD 1st.
It also allows you to use a Photoshop file as menu, can burn to 2 drives at a time, burns at 4x, is networkable, allows Keyboard/Mouse input, etc.

But their consumer models are too constrained.

Scott

[ckwok1]

I have used both the Panasonic E80 and E85 and can echo Captain Satellite that chapter marks are held after finalizing a disc. I have played these discs on my friends players as well (different makes and models) and all the chapter marks I created are there. Note that you must use high speed dubbing for the chapter markers to remain.

First, thank you for all your responses. It seems to me that chapter markers can be retained when dubbing from HDD to DVD. But they are not retained when video are directly recorded on to the DVD.

Any way, it seems that it is not the limitation of the DVD-Video format. It is the limitation of the DVD recorders.

Thanks again.

[Roll Tide]

I have the DMR-E80H. There are two scenarios at play here:

1) When you dub from HDD to DVD-R in a different speed than the original recording (re-encode), the recorder places chapter markers in approx. 5 minute increments. In this case, any markers set by the user are lost.

2) If the program is high-speed dubbed to DVD-R, then the disc retains any chapter markers set by the user. Lesson Learned: If the user doesn't set any markers on the HDD before high-speed dubbing, there will be no chapter markers on the resulting disc.

Hope this clears things up.

[joeg04]

Any way, it seems that it is not the limitation of the DVD-Video format.

That is wrong. It is a limitation of the DVD-Video format, used on "-" DVDs:
For each title, the *.IFO file (contains the chapter marker information) is physically stored before the *.VOB (video object) file(s) and has to be written first. Therefore the time values of the chapter markers have to be known before recording of the video to DVD starts. That is only the case if the editing was first made on a HDD.

Such a limitation exists with DVD video format, but not with VR format.