APEX Playing Problems

[AP Enterprises Ltd]

Yeah okay, okay... Don't yell at me just yet. I know Apex's aren't the greatest players in the world (The only reason I got it is because it can play SVCDs and it has a 3 disc changer [AD-703 model]).

I am now regretting my purchase. The 3-disc changer doesn't make up for the other serious problems that most people don't know about.

First off: The decoding board sucks! Sure, you would think that all DVD players play video the same (because it's digital), but nooooo... The 703's decoding board is bad quality. Blockiness occurrs with this player when it doesn't occur with other players. SVCDs freeze up when they don't on other players.

Second: The laser - something is wrong with it. Constant screen jitters (when playing fulscreen video containing high contrast) and odd random 'cannot find this part of the DVD' problems.

Last but NOT LEAST, which makes me really angry and am looking for an answer to:

This stupid player does not play back my 3:2 pulldown on playback SVCDs correctly!!! First, the video runs at 30fps (when it is really supposed to be 24) then after about 3 seconds, the video actually slows down to let the audio catch up! It plays fine for like 30 seconds, then the same problem happens again.

I think I should replace my player with one that can play SVCDs correctly. (And one with a better made decoding board!!)

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I haven't had a single problem with the 703. It sounds like you got a bad unit. I've pumped hundreds of test SVCD's through it and it performs top notch.

When you say it has a crummy decoder baord which decoder board do you have? BT or CS? I remember you posting a couple of months ago about problems you were having. At that point in time I commented that it may need a simple laser adjustment.

As far as SVCD's go many many times it is an encoding issue. Trust me I tested dozens of techniques before I landed on the process I use now. I think it is important to remember that when players say they can play VCD's and SVCD's that these claims are usually limited to professionally produced disks. With the home brewed stuff you are definately on your own.

I wouldn't trade mine for anything out there right now and I've tested alot of players. Especially now with the miniDVD patch that is available for the BT chipset.

[AP Enterprises Ltd]

I think I do have a bad unit.

I decided to open that bad boy up just to take a peek at what's under the hood... The firmware chipset is the one that is really really tiny in the corner, right? Well, I think it said something like CS495 (or something similar, I know for a fact that it started with CS.) It's too bad I couldn't get to the laser, because it was under the disc changer and I didn't feel like taking out any more screws. I haven't tried the firmware upgrade/patch, would that help with any problems?

What process are you using to create your SVCDs? Here's what I do:

* 720 x 480 DV-compressed AVI from Premiere 6
* Compress to MPEG2 3:2 pulldown on playback enabled, my own template (follows SVCD standard) with TMPGenc 12i (haven't had time to try 12j yet)
* Demux w/ TMPGenc 12i (haven't had the time to try 12j yet)
* Mux with bbMPEG, add SVCD scan offsets enabled. mux rate set to 0 (auto)
* create bin/cue with VCDImagerEasy v. 0.9.7 (or whichever is the most recent) using VCDImagerGNU 7.9
* burn cue/bin with Nero 5.5

and test. Hmm, would it be that I was using a CD-RW that would be causing the 3:2 problem issues?

_________________


AP Enterprises Ltd.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: AP Enterprises Ltd on 2001-09-07 15:46:32 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: AP Enterprises Ltd on 2001-09-07 15:48:10 ]</font>

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AP -

I enjoy simplicity. I capture with an AIW Pro 128. I capture at 480x480 Mpeg2 usually around 2.5 mps CBR. I do VBR captures as well but real time VBR encoding is asking alot as far as quality goes. I edit and do a quick demux/mux and burn. A 2 hour capture takes about 2.5 hours total to complete the entire process to a burned disk. The results look like digital cable.

My only comment on what you do is the 720x480 resolution. Have you tried 480x480? The 703 may be having problems with the 720x480 on CDR media. Only a guess but I can attest to the fact that 480x480 produces really excellent results. You may want to try it.

[AP Enterprises Ltd]

My way is perfect.

When I said that my own template follows SVCD standards, it really does follow SVCD standards. SVCD standard is 480 x 480, and that is what my end result video is. The only reason I mentioned 720 x 480 is because the DV compressor will not allow me to save with any other resolution. (I would use regular uncompressed AVI but the end filesize is way to big even at 480 x 480, and DV-avi saves a lot of space with very little noticable compression.)

480 x 480 does look really nice, but not with my Apex. As I said earlier, the decoding board sucks... Excessive blockiness occurs, it seems like the board can't handle the bitrate, but that's not true since the bitrate is actually LOWER than SVCD standard. Something must be wrong with my player...

I know the video itself isn't blocky because I played it on my computer via PowerDVD, and it looks wonderful.

Well, trial and error. Thank God for CD-RWs.

[Freddie100]

You have a bad unit. My Apex 703 runs perfectly.

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<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-09-08 11:49:25, Freddie100 wrote:
You have a bad unit. My Apex 703 runs perfectly.
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He's had a bad unit for months now but for some odd reason continues to tweak CDRW's.

[vivisimonvi]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-09-07 15:58:49, next wrote:
AP -

I enjoy simplicity. I capture with an AIW Pro 128. I capture at 480x480 Mpeg2 usually around 2.5 mps CBR. I do VBR captures as well but real time VBR encoding is asking alot as far as quality goes. I edit and do a quick demux/mux and burn. A 2 hour capture takes about 2.5 hours total to complete the entire process to a burned disk. The results look like digital cable.


</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

next - I have the same card as you have. When you record MPEG2 as an SVCD, is it a compliant file? Nero doesn't seem to like the ones I produce and discards it as a compliant SVCD file saying "invalid video stream: 29.97 frames/sec 480X480 pixels" Isn't that what it's supposed to be???? I even tried your method. I'm using Nero 5.5.0.3, btw.

Another thing that bothers me, my own ATI File Player SUCKS at playing the MPEG2 files I captured, oftens they won't even work on it. I had to get the Elecard MPEG2 player and it plays fine on that.

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AP- FYI

A post from the nerdout forum:

http://www.nerd-out.com/forum/read.php?f=15&i=4564&t=4564

[AP Enterprises Ltd]

Thanks, next. I think I'll try that, it sounds logical..

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<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>

next - I have the same card as you have. When you record MPEG2 as an SVCD, is it a compliant file? Nero doesn't seem to like the ones I produce and discards it as a compliant SVCD file saying "invalid video stream: 29.97 frames/sec 480X480 pixels" Isn't that what it's supposed to be???? I even tried your method. I'm using Nero 5.5.0.3, btw.

Another thing that bothers me, my own ATI File Player SUCKS at playing the MPEG2 files I captured, oftens they won't even work on it. I had to get the Elecard MPEG2 player and it plays fine on that.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

The AIW does not capture compliant mgeg2 SVCD streams. The AIW capture file requires a demux/mux to a compliant SVCD program stream. I edit my captures in M2-edit (this avoids any A/V sync problems) and then demux/mux the cuts/edits to SVCD program streams in Mpeg2vcr. Even after this process the file does not burn as compliant in Nero but burning with compliancy off produces an SVCD that plays in my DVD players. Without the demux/mux to a SVCD program stream they do not play in my DVD players.