dv to vcd ,why is it poor quality?

[volgard]

i have a dazzle hollywood dv bridge ,i capture at 720x576 (full dv)i run the files into tmpgenc with highest motion detection setting ,leave it to encode for 4 hours for 10minute section and the outcome........rubbish ,macro blocks all over the place ,even if i try the noise reduction setting(which shouldnt be needed using full dv) .i get better results encoding mpg1 files that i get off the net etc into vcd .
could this have something to do with the fact that vcr is only 352x288 ish ,i'm encoding it to 720x576 and then back again? ,problem is ,as with many capture cards you dont get the option to reduce capture sizes .

any help anyone???????


volgard

[droopy928gts]

Maybe stating the obvious here. But have you maybe first selected the VCD template to be used and then selected the files to be encoded to VCD? If so, automatically the encode resolution is set to the size of the source file. As such before starting to encode, you should first restore the encode resolution to 352*288!!

Regards, Leon

[volgard]

thanks droopy928gts ,but i'm quite experienced with vcd's in general .and svcd's and i have a dvd recorder .but this one beats me ,i download an mpeg1 or divx clip off the net ,with a little bit of tweaking i can get a quite good vcd out of it .i capture full dv(and i have 2 devices to choose from)then run that into tmpgenc and get worse results .maybe i'm just missing the real point ,vcd bitrate is too low to give good results ,and svcd is too high to be able to fit anything on a cd




volgard

[Tommy]

Why wouldn't you need any noise filters? You seem to be having a lot of noise i.e. macro blocks.

Just because your capturing at a higher resolution that doesn't mean the quality of the original is going to improve. It just doesn't work that way. If your bringing in crap its still going to be crap no matter what resolution it is in.

You need the filters. Check the tools sections for some templates to try, perhaps one of them will work out for you.

[TeeeRex]

Have to disagree there Tommy,

I capture mini-DV at 720x576 and encode to SVCD WITHOUT filters and the result is stunning.

Filters should be used when the source is crap or you want to alter colours to lighten it up etc - with DV the quality should be there in the first place - DV is the same res as DVD and twice the frame rate if you can capture it (50fps) ...

TeeeRex

[EricB]

I agree with TeeeRex, a decent quality DV source (ie. good lighting etc) results in a stunning VCD or SVCD. No filters, no nothing.

I had an early Hollywood Bridge and it would randomly crap out and cause colored blocks, bursts of noise, etc. With your input that you are well experienced with this stuff, I suspect you have a hardware problem or a driver conflict.

Certainly with SVCD, it should be hard to tell the original DV tape from the SVCD playing.

[Tommy]

Have to disagree there Tommy,

I capture mini-DV at 720x576 and encode to SVCD WITHOUT filters and the result is stunning.

Filters should be used when the source is crap or you want to alter colours to lighten it up etc - with DV the quality should be there in the first place - DV is the same res as DVD and twice the frame rate if you can capture it (50fps) ...

TeeeRex

It has a lot to do with what you capture. For instance if your transfering footage from a dv camcorder that was taken with the lens often times it doesn't need anything, however if your using a dv bridge (or a mini-dv camcorder) as a capture device its not aways the case. It seems that he is capturing from a VHS tape via some sort of dv device and then converting to a VCD. Granted if he was using a SVCD with a higher bitrate he might not be having this problem. BUT he isn't.

Crap in = Crap out. If your original is a vhs tape or similar it will NOT improve in quality by capturing it at a higher resolution. The discussion (not yours TeeeRex) about a decent DV source is correct but the source is not native DV its VHS.

[TeeeRex]

Tommy,

I guess the use of the word DV is a bit misleading in the original post - coz it's not DV at all but captured with a DV device (using the analogue input I assume).

Actually - while I'm on - does anybody know of a capture driver for a Pinnacle DV500 firewire card that will capture at a lower than DV res ? (coz I also have to capture at 720x576 for VHS and encode to VCD (with good results) but the capture file size is huge (lightly compressed AVI)

[AsHmAkIsS]

I am having the same problem I have a sony pc120 DV camcorder and I am using a firewire cart to transfer my video and when I try to convert to SVCD or VCD its all crap but the ripped avi file is good quality but about 5 gig 720 576 dpi. Even tried ulead DVD Moviefactory and the output stinks.

Anyone have any ideas thanks

PS. hi to all just got here

[TeeeRex]

A,

Didn't say the encode was crap but the file size is huge and for 1hr grabs this is an issue - what have you tried to encode the DV-AVI file ? I use TMPGenc (even with standard templates) and the result is excellent so I'm not sure where you are going wrong.

?

[Tommy]

I am having the same problem I have a sony pc120 DV camcorder and I am using a firewire cart to transfer my video and when I try to convert to SVCD or VCD its all crap but the ripped avi file is good quality but about 5 gig 720 576 dpi. Even tried ulead DVD Moviefactory and the output stinks.

Anyone have any ideas thanks

PS. hi to all just got here

What is the original source of video are you attempting to turn into a svcd/vcd (lens, etc...)? Ripped avi file? Lets not mix terms. a ripped file would originate from a dvd.

Explain crap, as no one can help you if no one knows what the problem is.

[AsHmAkIsS]

ok its video transfered from my sony 120 DV camcorder using DV out connected to a firewire card on my pc

when I say crap its after I convert the avi file to mpeg its all blocky and fuzzy around any movement

one thing also is the fact that the avi video has bad interlace bars on the pc so i think I need to remove interlace also

[$$$]

when I say crap its after I convert the avi file to mpeg its all blocky and fuzzy around any movement

DV footage requires a much higher bitrate for encoding than the SVCD standard allows (as these clips are typically quite shaky). If your DVD player doesn't support it ... bad luck. You would have to decrease your target resolution then.

one thing also is the fact that the avi video has bad interlace bars on the pc so i think I need to remove interlace also

Well, these are supposed to be there and to obtain the best possible encode you would need to preserve them. Be careful not to mess up things with wrong resizing. As you are targeting something like VCD/SVCD I assume you want to watch it on TV, otherwise you would have to deinterlace, of course.

$

[stimpleton]

When "capturing" from a dv camcorder you are not actually capturing you are transfering data as it is already in digital format, when encoding to VCD or SVCD using tmpgenc choose setting and double click the
de-interlace box, you then have the ability to choose which field order best suits your video, you even have the chance to preview with filter on or off for comparison
this should sort out "crap" quality issues. it worked for me

[Bastian]

hi,

i never read sth. about that in this forum => matrix! in tmpgenc there is an advanced filed, where you can change the settings of the matrix. for interlaced videos, use this matrix:
8,13,13,17,17,21,21,28,
13,13,17,17,19,21,23,30,
13,17,19,19,21,23,28,34,
13,17,19,19,21,23,28,48,
17,19,19,19,23,28,34,48,
19,19,23,25,28,32,34,48,
19,21,23,25,28,32,34,48,
21,21,25,25,28,32,34,48

8,11,11,15,15,17,17,24,
11,11,15,15,17,17,21,24,
13,15,15,17,21,21,26,34,
13,17,15,17,21,21,26,48,
17,21,21,23,21,30,34,48,
17,21,21,23,28,30,34,48,
19,19,25,26,28,30,48,48,
19,19,25,26,28,30,48,48

with a bitrate of 3500 - 400 (svcd)

if you have non-interlaced videos or if you de-interlace it, use this one and a bitrate of 2000 - 2000+
8,13,15,19,19,23,23,29,
13,13,17,19,22,23,27,29,
15,17,19,22,23,27,29,35,
17,21,22,23,27,29,35,37,
21,21,23,27,31,33,37,46,
21,25,27,31,33,37,46,58,
25,25,31,33,37,40,54,69,
25,31,33,37,40,54,69,78

8,11,13,15,15,19,19,24,
11,11,15,15,19,21,24,25,
13,15,17,19,21,24,25,34,
13,17,19,21,23,26,34,46,
17,19,21,23,26,32,46,56,
17,21,23,26,32,46,56,66,
22,22,28,30,46,56,66,69,
22,28,30,46,56,66,69,78

in a german forum, there are allways conversations about those matrixs, but here... nobody seems to care about this. you can do so much with it.

then you will get good results in svcd format.