converting 60 unique fields ps

[spiritgumm]

probably a stupid question, but when you have a dvd video (sometimes apparently from a videocamera, but in this case from a dvd recorder) which appears to have 59.94 unique fields per second, how do you treat it in aviysnth? Whether you're making an xvid, or recoding for dvd? Do you use yadif and srestore? Attached a sample. dust.m2v

[jagabo]

If you want a progressive video you create a 59.94 fps video (some players may have problems playing it) or a 29.97 fps video. You can use Yadif(mode=1) for 59.94 fps, Yadif(mode=0) for 29.97 fps. Or you can use QTGMC() or TempGaussMC_beta1mod() (or other variations) to get 59.95 fps, or follow that with SelectEven() or SelectOdd() to get 29.97 fps. Or use any of the other bob doublers or deinterlacers.

For DVD you leave it like it is and encode interlaced.

[poisondeathray]

Dammit Jim, that looks a lot like William Shatner ?

[spiritgumm]

For xvid progressive, it can be 29.97 rather than 23.976?

Dammit, it is Jim! "A Town has turned to Dust" (Playhouse 90).

[manono]

For xvid progressive, it can be 29.97 rather than 23.976?

Yes, of course.

[jagabo]

For xvid progressive, it can be 29.97 rather than 23.976?

Yes. And you definitely want it 29.97. 23.976 will be jerky.

Mpeg2Source("dust.d2v", CPU=2)
AssumeTFF()
QTGMC()
SelectEven()

30p Xvid AVI attached. 60p would be a little smoother.

[spiritgumm]

The other day, I converted a 30 fps videocam video to 23.976, and it looked okay on the monitor. But I will encode this to 29.76 progressive for xvid - looked great previewing it in MPC.
Thanks guys!

[jagabo]

The other day, I converted a 30 fps videocam video to 23.976, and it looked okay on the monitor.

Watch a smooth, medium speed panning shot, or something like a car moving across the screen. You will see four little jerks every second.

Smooth 30p and decimated to 24p attached. You should view them on a 60p monitor for the most obvious difference.

[spiritgumm]

If you want a progressive video you create a 59.94 fps video (some players may have problems playing it) or a 29.97 fps video. You can use Yadif(mode=1) for 59.94 fps, Yadif(mode=0) for 29.97 fps. Or you can use QTGMC() or TempGaussMC_beta1mod() (or other variations) to get 59.95 fps, or follow that with SelectEven() or SelectOdd() to get 29.97 fps. Or use any of the other bob doublers or deinterlacers.

For DVD you leave it like it is and encode interlaced.

I will be Tweaking, cropping and resizing. But for dvd video, no bobbing or deinterlacing, correct? Leave it interlaced, and encode interlaced, correct?
Is there a particular name for the source video's interlace pattern?

[edDV]

If you want a progressive video you create a 59.94 fps video (some players may have problems playing it) or a 29.97 fps video. You can use Yadif(mode=1) for 59.94 fps, Yadif(mode=0) for 29.97 fps. Or you can use QTGMC() or TempGaussMC_beta1mod() (or other variations) to get 59.95 fps, or follow that with SelectEven() or SelectOdd() to get 29.97 fps. Or use any of the other bob doublers or deinterlacers.

For DVD you leave it like it is and encode interlaced.

I will be Tweaking, cropping and resizing. But for dvd video, no bobbing or deinterlacing, correct? Leave it interlaced, and encode interlaced, correct?
Is there a particular name for the source video's interlace pattern?

There are three types of DVD players. The original models only handled interlace. Film was passed with repeat telecine fields to the analog outputs as 480i for NTSC. Progressive DVD's were converted to telecine output.

If you have a conventional TV, or a premium digital HDTV, interlace output works best. The HDTV will do the inverse telecine or deinterlace and then upscale to native display resolution.

The second type of DVD player (common today) adds progressive processing and progressive output options. First, progressive encoded discs can be output as progressive (720x480p at 59.94 frames per second*) to a progressive TV. Interlace DVD discs can be passed as interlace or inverse telecined or deinterlaced in the player, then sent as progressive (720x480p at 59.94 frames per second*) to the progressive TV. One needs to test the interlace and progressive modes to determine whether the player or TV do a better deinterlace.

A third type of player adds upscale to interlace or progressive processing. 480i interlace video (including telecine) can be upscaled to 1080i, then passed to the HDTV via HDMI for processing. One needs to test whether the player or TV does the better upscale. Or, interlace video can be inverse telecined or deinterlaced in the player and sent to the HDTV as 480p or 720p both at 59.94 fps.

In an upscaling player, progressive discs can be output with telcine as 480i or upscaled 1080i. Or output progressive as 480p or upscaled 720p at 59.94. Some players also allow 1080p at 59.94 fps but many HDTV sets won't accept 1080p at 59.94. Some will accept 1080p 23.976 fps from Blu-Ray players.

The correct DVD player settings depend mostly on the quality of the HDTV. If you have a nice upper level Sony or Samsung for example, passing 480i to the HDTV will get the best results. If you have a bargain "value" series model HDTV from Walmart, the DVD player processing may be superior to the TV. You need to test all the modes for your particular equipment.


* for PAL players, output would be 25 fps or 50 fps.

[manono]

I will be Tweaking, cropping and resizing. But for dvd video, no bobbing or deinterlacing, correct? Leave it interlaced, and encode interlaced, correct?

Certain kinds of filtering, resizing in particular, should only be done on progressive video. If the intent is to both resize it and keep it interlaced, you should bob it first, followed by the filtering, followed by reinterlacing it. You know this already, right?

[spiritgumm]

If the intent is to both resize it and keep it interlaced, you should bob it first, followed by the filtering, followed by reinterlacing it. You know this already, right?

I've read that, yes. That was one of the reasons I was confused and wanted some clarification about jagabo's advice that:
"For DVD you leave it like it is and encode interlaced."

So does that mean, using the middle part of my script, doing something like this?:
separatefields()
crop(4,0,0,-4)
addborders(0,0,4,0)
lanczos4resize(720,240)
Tweak(Sat=0,Bright=16,cont=.9,coring=False)
weave()

[jagabo]

So does that mean, using the middle part of my script, doing something like this?:

separatefields()
crop(4,0,0,-4)
addborders(0,0,4,0)
lanczos4resize(720,240)
Tweak(Sat=0,Bright=16,cont=.9,coring=False)
weave()

That's better than resizing without deinterlacing. But if you must crop and resize I highly recommend you use a smart bobber like Yadif() or QTGMC() instead of SeparateFields():

QTGMC()
crop(4,0,0,-8)
addborders(0,0,4,0)
lanczos4resize(720,480)
SeparateFields()
SelectEvery(4,0,3)
weave()

Best would be not to resize vertically at all. Just add 8 lines of black at the bottom after cropping.

[spiritgumm]

A did a sample with my separatefields script, looked okay, but I'll try your suggestion with yadif. I made a small mistake in my cropping - the bottom crop should have been only -2 after Separatefields. It would be -4 in your script.
Yadif(mode=1, order=1)
crop(4,0,0,-4)
addborders(0,0,4,4)
separate, select, weave, etc

Inre QTGMC, I downloaded the QTGMC avsi and NNEDI3 but get an error that I need Removegrain; at this point, I'll skip trying to figure out which mvtools download is the correct version.

I originally made some trims in my Xvid script, and used yadif (mode=0). I spent alot of time manually tweaking the final audio in a wave editor, mistakenly thinking that I would use it in both the xvid and dvd video. I'm afraid it won't sync with any of these new scripts.

[jagabo]

The problem with SeparateFields().resize().Weave() show up on sharp horizontal lines and edges:



On the left is the original. The middle is resized after SeparateFields. On the right is resized after Yadif().

[spiritgumm]

Huh. Is there a term for that halo effect? I hope you didn't do all the work to make that comparison just for me. You know I'll always defer to you guys' advice.

[jagabo]

Huh. Is there a term for that halo effect? I hope you didn't do all the work to make that comparison just for me. You know I'll always defer to you guys' advice.

The oversharpening halos are from Lanczos4Resize(). It's a sharpening resizer and gives halos like that if the material is already very sharp. You can avoid the halos by using BilinearResize() instead:



I made these images specifically to highlight the problems. Real world video usually isn't so sharp so you won't see as much of it.

[spiritgumm]

oh right, I've seen the halo's from over-Tweaking, and oversharpening before...I was thinking in this case, it was the combination of resizing with half-frame sized fields (from Separatefields) that was doing it.
Since you didn't simply advise to substitute BilnearResize for LanczosResize, I assume there's other reasons than the halo effect for using yadif over Separatefields...

[jagabo]

The problem isn't just halos. Look at the BilinearResize versions. Sometimes the lines are doubled (see the topmost line), overall they're blurrier.

If your video isn't so sharp you won't get much haloing from the sharpening resizers. That's why I didn't simply tell you to use BilinearResize. You have to decide for yourself which works better with your videos. I'm showing you what to look for.

[spiritgumm]

have a vhs which has noticeable horizontal (interlacing?) lines. What's worse is the video bounces up and down slightly but constantly. Hard to see it on a monitor, but annoying on a TV.
I recorded the vhs to dvd, and would like a reasonably good method for fixing the prominent lines (I have other homerecorded dvds which share similar vhs source), and for fixing the bouncing.

I tried "Yadif (mode=0)" which eliminates the bouncing and decreases the lines (as would "Separatefields.Selecteven.resize" with some quality loss). But when I reencode interlaced with HC, the lines become somewhat noticeable again, when watched on a TV. I'm assuming there are more methods, probably better than what I've tried.

Are either of these problems some kind of phase issue which requires a different method altogether?
Here's a video sample for some brave soul to examine:
bounce.m2v

[jagabo]

There's some film bounce or VCR vertical jitter. Try:

Yadif(mode=1, order=1)
Stab()
SRestore()

QTGMC() should work better than Yadif(). You might need to fiddle with the frame rate in SRestore(). And clean up the top and bottom afterward.

[spiritgumm]

Thanks, I'll give it a shot. Do I actually need to crop the top/bottom? I thought the edges didn't show up on TV.
I'd love to try QTGMC() but as previously stated, I wasn't finding the right combo of required filters.

[jagabo]

You don't have to crop the top and bottom but the head switching noise and bouncing black frame will eat up bitrate. It's not such a big deal with noisy VHS caps.

SRestore(frate=23.976) seemed to work better with that clip. It doesn't make sense though.

[poisondeathray]

You could also denoise and filter out the dirt flecks to clean it up a little (and remove the chroma noise(?!) on a black-and-white film). But some people actually like the spots and dirt for the old films

QTGMC really is a lot better than yadif, it's worth your while struggling to get the filters sorted out - especially if you're going to put half an effort into restoration efforts . It's very configurable, but it should be noted that the current default settings oversharpen quite a bit

[poisondeathray]

I think this is the correct "removegrain"

The key is to use the correct version(s) for your processor. Only put in removegrain.dll first, then start adding others 1 by 1. The vanilla "removegrain.dll" alone should work on all processors . IIRC the SSE2/3 versions can cause problems on some systems

Post any error messages

[jagabo]

Replacing Yadif() with Bob() gave the least artifacts but also a less sharp picture.

[manono]

SRestore(frate=23.976) seemed to work better with that clip. It doesn't make sense though.

Why do you say that? If 23.976fps is the correct framerate (and it is), then it makes sense. What doesn't make sense is unblending it to the wrong framerate and introducing a duplicate frame every second (on average). Fieldblended 23.976->29.97 isn't all that common, but I've seen plenty of it.

[jagabo]

I was expecting a field blended PAL to NTSC transfer. It's the first time I've seen it used for 23.976 to 29.97.

[poisondeathray]

Here is an example with cleaning it up a bit (But I don't know if you are one of those folks who prefer the noise/dirt/scratches on the old films)

RemoveDirtMC() is a great filter for cleaning up scratches, dirt, dust etc.... It's adjustable, so if you prefer to tone it down you can

Notice it doesn't catch everything - on a few frames it misses some dirt/scratches - the reason is srestore's effect isn't perfect. It leaves some dupe frames. The motion compensation portion of remove dirt detects differences between frames. When 2 adjacent frames have the same dirt/dust spots, it's not detected as "dirt"

On the left is just bob() and srestore(frate=23.976) , if you want to "clean" it up, I'll post the script for the right. If you prefer to preserve the dirt/scratches for the period feel of the piece, then ignore this post

[jagabo]

I thought noise reduction was obvious. And levels too.