Need recorder that can record High Def.

[how786]

I currently have a Panny ES20. Much to my dismay, I discovered that although it has component video out, it does not have component video IN. My goal is to burn DVDs of my favorite TV shows that I've recorded on my DVR box in High Definition.
Panny tech support told me that they do not make such a unit.
Is there a unit I can purchase that will burn High Def. onto DVD?
Please let me know if this is the wrong forum for my question, too.
Thanks very much
How786

[Frobozz]

At this time the only way to record HDTV in high definition is with a JVD DVHS recorder. The ability to record to high definition optical discs is coming soon, maybe by the end of the year. However, we don't know if the copy-once protection on the non-network HD channels will prevent that recording.

[Baldrick]

You can also record HDTV with a computer/HTPC together with hdtv card and burn on bluray media (but no bluray players out yet though ).

You can't get any HD onto a DVD that will work on most dvd players...but you can make a HDDVD onto a DVD that will work in HDDVD players.

[edDV]

I currently have a Panny ES20. Much to my dismay, I discovered that although it has component video out, it does not have component video IN. My goal is to burn DVDs of my favorite TV shows that I've recorded on my DVR box in High Definition.
Panny tech support told me that they do not make such a unit.
Is there a unit I can purchase that will burn High Def. onto DVD?
Please let me know if this is the wrong forum for my question, too.
Thanks very much
How786

You do realize that DVD is 720x480?
It is possible to offload your HD DVR via S-Video and 2 channel stereo to your DVD recorder as letterbox 720x480.

It is also possible to computer record off the IEEE-1394 port some of the channels in full HD as a MPeg2_TS stream. There are various ways to encode the result but not for playback on a normal DVD player except as 720x480.

There are some players that allow certain MPeg4 fomats to be played.

There is also a way to prepare a short 20-40 minute HD DVD on DVD-5 or DVD-9 media that would be playable on the new Toshiba HD DVD player.

Other than that we are all waiting for a way to record HD DVD or BluRay DVD in high def.

[how786]

I currently have a Panny ES20. Much to my dismay, I discovered that although it has component video out, it does not have component video IN. My goal is to burn DVDs of my favorite TV shows that I've recorded on my DVR box in High Definition.
Panny tech support told me that they do not make such a unit.
Is there a unit I can purchase that will burn High Def. onto DVD?
Please let me know if this is the wrong forum for my question, too.
Thanks very much
How786

You do realize that DVD is 720x480?
It is possible to offload your HD DVR via S-Video and 2 channel stereo to your DVD recorder as letterbox 720x480.

It is also possible to computer record off the IEEE-1394 port some of the channels in full HD as a MPeg2_TS stream. There are various ways to encode the result but not for playback on a normal DVD player except as 720x480.

There are some players that allow certain MPeg4 fomats to be played.

There is also a way to prepare a short 20-40 minute HD DVD on DVD-5 or DVD-9 media that would be playable on the new Toshiba HD DVD player.

Other than that we are all waiting for a way to record HD DVD or BluRay DVD in high def.

EdDV, Thanks.I must confess that I am unaware of the technical things that you mentioned. Like the 720x480.
All that I'd like is to be able to transfer from my DVR box to my ES20 or some other stand-alone recorder and maintain the nice, wide-screen format of shows I record. Is this possible without anything fancy like getting a computer involved?
Would recording from the DVR via S-Video onto the ES20 give me image quality comparable to what the DVR produces?
I'd probably be willing to purchase an HD DVD recorder/burner if that's what I need.
Forgive my ignorance. I'm really new to this.
How786

[edDV]

I currently have a Panny ES20. Much to my dismay, I discovered that although it has component video out, it does not have component video IN. My goal is to burn DVDs of my favorite TV shows that I've recorded on my DVR box in High Definition.
Panny tech support told me that they do not make such a unit.
Is there a unit I can purchase that will burn High Def. onto DVD?
Please let me know if this is the wrong forum for my question, too.
Thanks very much
How786

You do realize that DVD is 720x480?
It is possible to offload your HD DVR via S-Video and 2 channel stereo to your DVD recorder as letterbox 720x480.

It is also possible to computer record off the IEEE-1394 port some of the channels in full HD as a MPeg2_TS stream. There are various ways to encode the result but not for playback on a normal DVD player except as 720x480.

There are some players that allow certain MPeg4 fomats to be played.

There is also a way to prepare a short 20-40 minute HD DVD on DVD-5 or DVD-9 media that would be playable on the new Toshiba HD DVD player.

Other than that we are all waiting for a way to record HD DVD or BluRay DVD in high def.

EdDV, Thanks.I must confess that I am unaware of the technical things that you mentioned. Like the 720x480.
All that I'd like is to be able to transfer from my DVR box to my ES20 or some other stand-alone recorder and maintain the nice, wide-screen format of shows I record. Is this possible without anything fancy like getting a computer involved?
Would recording from the DVR via S-Video onto the ES20 give me image quality comparable to what the DVR produces?
I'd probably be willing to purchase an HD DVD recorder/burner if that's what I need.
Forgive my ignorance. I'm really new to this.
How786

Which DVR box (model number)?

The output will be S-Video NTSC (low resolution and letterboxed). That is what your ES20 expects for input. The ES20 cannot record from component or in HDTV.

You only need the computer to get some channels in HDTV. There is no other way to get HDTV.

There is no stand alone consumer recorder that will record HDTV off that cable box. This is mostly because they prevent it.

[how786]

My DVR is a Motorola 6412. I've got both component video and HDMI out.
Thanks!
How786

[edDV]

My DVR is a Motorola 6412. I've got both component video and HDMI out.
Thanks!
How786

I have the same box. While it is "possible" to record those outputs, it would need a computer plus over $1000 in specialized equipment. Hire a broadcast engineer.

[gshelley61]

There is a device that can downsize 1920x1080i component video output to standard NTSC... I don't know how good it is, but this would be a way to record the 16:9 "squeezed" aspect ratio in NTSC DVD for cable boxes that force letterbox widescreen from their own NTSC outputs:

http://www.avtoolbox.com/avt3190.shtml

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=details&kw=TVAVT3190&is=REG&Q=&O=pro...ist&sku=377254

[edDV]

But the 6412 itself will output a very good quality NTSC S-Video analog output. The only problem is that it is letterboxed in a 4:3 frame.

[how786]

How would it be if I took the output from the 6412 and recorded on to my JVC HD video recorder (using an HD tape)? Would that work?

[edDV]

How would it be if I took the output from the 6412 and recorded on to my JVC HD video recorder (using an HD tape)? Would that work?

Depends depends depends on your local cable provider.

Look, here is the issue.

[rant]

You want what any other HDTV owner wants. A time shifted copy in HDTV.

"Hollywood" and certain members of Congress (R) and (D) (equal opportunity freezer money?) are determined to prevent you from recording HDTV in analog or digital format HDTV (YPbPr or DVI/HDMI).

They (Hollywood) say this is to prevent piracy (mass resale) of their programs. If they can buy Congressmen so cheaply to prevent 1920x1080 copies, why are we to assume some movie distribution flunky won't sell the 4Kx4k digital master for less than it costs to buy a Congressman?

In any case the cable, satellite and broadcast companies are all being threatened to avoid letting HDTV outside their proprietary DVRs.

Congressmen Sensenbrenner (R) and Conyers (D) cosponsored a bill to force TV stations and cable companies to selectively block HDTV reception (over 720x480 resolution in the original writing) of over the air broadcast HDTV programs if the monitor won't authenticate an HDCP encryption with a valid key!!! So far this bill hasn't gotten out of committee.

The only recent good guy decision was by Micheal Powell former FCC Chairman who ruled that cable companies must pass local HD broadcasts without blocks or encryption if it is offered over the air. This ruling was subject to being over-ruled by Congress. This is why you can get locals in HDTV over IEEE-1394from cable boxes. Here everything else is blocked. Mileage will vary locally.

[/rant]

Isn't free speech great?

California is ruled by Hollywood elites (even the Arnold). Maybe I should be more careful..... Not nope never.

[how786]

Geez Ed. That explains it. I'd NO idea such nonsense was going on.
It is sickening! I am speechless. What to do?


Meanwhile, what do you think of the following idea that a friend uses:

"I use a Panny ES20 for recording from a HD satellite box. IF the satellite box is set to "squeeze" a 16:9 image to 4:3, it will output that squeezed image through SVHS to the ES10. Then when I play back these DVD's, I set the monitor to stretch the image back to 16:9. the results are pretty good. Not quite as good as a store-bought DVD, but very close on a 52" screen."

Do you think this is a resonable work-around? Or, will the quality be too compromised? (My screen is 60")

Thanks for your enlightening reply, btw.
How786

[edDV]

Geez Ed. That explains it. I'd NO idea such nonsense was going on.
It is sickening! I am speechless. What to do?


Meanwhile, what do you think of the following idea that a friend uses:

"I use a Panny ES20 for recording from a HD satellite box. IF the satellite box is set to "squeeze" a 16:9 image to 4:3, it will output that squeezed image through SVHS to the ES10. Then when I play back these DVD's, I set the monitor to stretch the image back to 16:9. the results are pretty good. Not quite as good as a store-bought DVD, but very close on a 52" screen."

Do you think this is a resonable work-around? Or, will the quality be too compromised? (My screen is 60")

Thanks for your enlightening reply, btw.
How786

You can do exactly that with the 6412. Remember the IEEE-1394 option for local broadcasts.

[edDV]

Geez Ed. That explains it. I'd NO idea such nonsense was going on.
It is sickening! I am speechless. What to do?


Meanwhile, what do you think of the following idea that a friend uses:

"I use a Panny ES20 for recording from a HD satellite box. IF the satellite box is set to "squeeze" a 16:9 image to 4:3, it will output that squeezed image through SVHS to the ES10. Then when I play back these DVD's, I set the monitor to stretch the image back to 16:9. the results are pretty good. Not quite as good as a store-bought DVD, but very close on a 52" screen."

Do you think this is a resonable work-around? Or, will the quality be too compromised? (My screen is 60")

Thanks for your enlightening reply, btw.
How786

You can do exactly that with the 6412. Remember the IEEE-1394 option for local broadcasts.

PS: Maybe they are doing more. 480i 16:9 assumes full vertical height like this


which expands in the TV like this


The 6412 outputs like this as 4:3 letterbox

[how786]

EdDV,
1-Could you elaborate on the IEEE option, please?
2-Where do I set the DVR to squeeze the image for my friends idea?
Thanks
How786

[edDV]

Output S-Video and audio to your ES20 while tuned to a HD channel. Record it and play back to your TV. That is what you can do with the 6412. It will be 720x480 letterbox.

Ask your friend for a DVD from his setup and compare.

[Frobozz]

how786, you say you have a JVC HD video recorder. I'm presuming you mean a DVHS recorder. In that case you can connect it via Firewire to the Motorola box and capture to D-VHS tape the HD video. Just keep the tapes and forget about lowering the resolution so you can have it on disc.

But if you must have a DVD, you then can set the JVC to output the vertically stretched (aka horizontally squeezed) 480i picture via S-video to the Panasonic recorder. However, there may be a copy protection flag that prevents the Panasonic from doing the recording. Network HD channels can be copied.

I've read threads where Panasonic recorders don't automatically flag this anamorphic 16:9 video (except maybe when recording to DVD-RAM) and you see the stretched/squeezed picture unless you change a setting on your TV.

The problem you and I have is that the Motorola box can only letterbox or pan & scan the HD channels when output at 480i. Other than spending $400 for a component-to-NTSC downconverter, your only other option is to capture the HD video as 16:9 video through the Firewire link. But that isn't 480i which is required for video DVD so we're back to the start of my post.

I'm hoping the Panasonic DVR that Comcast has contracted to purchase will have an anamorphic 480i export option so I can dump the Motorola box.

[how786]

Froboz,

Thanks for your informative reply. Yes, I have the JVC 40000U. I guess I am mixing up HD and DVHS. Perhaps you could explain the difference to me. I'd appreciate that. Regarding Comcast: what ever happened to their liason with TIVO? They were talking about a 3 tuner TIVO box and then nothing for one year.
So, you are saying that I can go via firewire directly into my JVC. I will have to try that out. (I wish that my JVC was as well-made as my Panasonic 1980P. The 1980 is like a tank, has a superb TBC in the unit and produces a phenomenal picture.
But, it's only Svhs.)
I don't understand the squeezing etc. since I don't know what to change on the DVR box. (SIGH)
Thanks for your help
How786

[edDV]

Froboz,

Thanks for your informative reply. Yes, I have the JVC 40000U. I guess I am mixing up HD and DVHS. Perhaps you could explain the difference to me. I'd appreciate that. Regarding Comcast: what ever happened to their liason with TIVO? They were talking about a 3 tuner TIVO box and then nothing for one year.
So, you are saying that I can go via firewire directly into my JVC. I will have to try that out. (I wish that my JVC was as well-made as my Panasonic 1980P. The 1980 is like a tank, has a superb TBC in the unit and produces a phenomenal picture.
But, it's only Svhs.)
I don't understand the squeezing etc. since I don't know what to change on the DVR box. (SIGH)
Thanks for your help
How786

If you have a DVHS recorder, connect it to the IEEE-1394 port and run through the channels on the Comcast box and see what appears on a monitor connected to the DVHS recorder. Here is what to expect.

Analog Channels 1-99: These will be encoded in the Comcast box to 720x480 ~ 7000Kb/s MPeg2 and won't look that great. IMO you get a better picture recording from S-Video.

Local digital broadcast channels SD and HD should be present and recordable. Bitrates vary locally.

Cable digital channels may or may not be available.
6412 DVR playback may or may not be available.

The DVHS VCR will record the MPeg2_TS stream and play it back out the analog component YPbPr outputs in SD or HD as recorded. Some models have DVI or HDMI outputs. Most models also have a ATSC DTV digital tuner that will allow you to record the local digital channels over the air off an antenna. Their will probably be more channels available over the air than over Comcast if you are in a large city.

[edDV]

As for recording an anamorphic 16:9 (like the top picture above), the Panasonic E20 won't handle 16:9 inputs directly but you can fake it by recording the video to DVD as if it were normal 4:3 interlace analog. Then the DVD widescreen flag can be reauthored later so the DVD player will flag it to display as widescreen.

[Frobozz]

As edDV describes, your JVC 4000U will record the digital channel streams via Firewire IEEE-1394. Those recordings will play back in HD if you have the JVC connected to your TV via component video.

You can instruct the JVC to output the recorded 16:9 HD video via S-video in the squeezed format shown in the top picture of edDV's earlier post. This is how you want the DVD recorder to get the picture if you later want to play it back as anamorphic 16:9 video.

Do your tests first with network HD channels. Then see if you can also do this with any of the non-network HD channels.

[how786]

As edDV describes, your JVC 4000U will record the digital channel streams via Firewire IEEE-1394. Those recordings will play back in HD if you have the JVC connected to your TV via component video.

You can instruct the JVC to output the recorded 16:9 HD video via S-video in the squeezed format shown in the top picture of edDV's earlier post. This is how you want the DVD recorder to get the picture if you later want to play it back as anamorphic 16:9 video.

Do your tests first with network HD channels. Then see if you can also do this with any of the non-network HD channels.

I CAN connect the JVC to my TV with component video. If I do so, why do I want to implement paragraph 2 of your response. I think I'm not understanding something basic.

[edDV]

I think he meant you could record it that way with your E20 to DVD @ SD resolution in 16:9 mode (top picture).

[Frobozz]

Right. The second paragraph is only when you want to record from the JVC to the DVD recorder.

[handyguy]

hdvcrs have been out for years. Record hd on vcr cassette.

[camlachie]

dont know if any will read this reply but,,,
i to have the same cable box and dvhs vcr,,,
I have been able to record via firewire Hd 5.1 to dvhs deck ,,,,
its awesome,
also with drilling a hole on the bottom of a svhs Tape, you can capture hd 5.1 onto a svhs tape and I cant even tell the difference other than length of time compared to a dvhs tape,,,,