Audio hiss removal

[mattso]

I'm interested in an audio denoiser to insert between my VCR & Pioneer DVR530. I'm wondering, is anyone familiar with these? How thorough are they, compared to say using Adobe Audition's Noise Reduction?

Basically I want to steer away from software & keep everything real-time.

I found this (discontinued, but still available in stores, and cheap too!).

The manual states "can be used for any signal source, incl tape & VHS etc".

[ozymango]

I've never used one for VCR to DVD recording, but these can be very nice for removing tape hiss and any kind of constant background noise from old audio tapes anyway, should be just fine for a VCR. I go the software route myself of late because I've found it's just easier for me to "tweak" settings within Audition for getting rid of stuff like tape hiss and 60-hz hum "after-the-fact," where I can compare the different sounds in preview mode and see what sounds "best" to my ears.

But for plain hiss and your typical background noise, the Behringer unit works quite nicely I think (but some people love Behringer stuff, some hate it, so YMMV!). Certainly if you don't want to go the software route for noise reduction this thing is a lot better than just an equalizer, you don't cut off so much of the highs with this unit.

But get yourself a good set of headphones if you don't already have a set, for configuring the sound and getting it as clean as possible, do not rely on speakers!

[Cornucopia]

I concur.
That unit is sweet! Just make sure it's not a REFURB without a warranty or anything like that...

Scott

[mattso]

Thanks, yes I'm figuring I could use it for other things too. I think this has replaced the above denoiser - which looks even better, as it has a built-in exciter. Same price-range too!

I'm amazed at the endless stream of new products Behringer seem to be bringing out, all at rock-bottom prices!

I will give it a shot & report back. I'm a bit worried about losing my sync...?

[Cornucopia]

I checked the manual and there is no mention anywhere of the latency.
The absolution minimum latency would be 2 x 1 sample (for simple A/D, D/A) = 2 * 1/48000 = .04 milliseconds. Since 1 video frame off would be 33 1/3 milliseconds and 1 video field off would be 16 2/3 milliseconds, even if the latency was 100 times that (or 4 milliseconds), that would still be quite within most people's idea of being in sync. This amount may be noticeable to a seasoned pro, though.

Shouldn't really be a problem for you, but see if you can find more info...

Scott

[ozymango]

I'm a bit worried about losing my sync...?

I really don't think that'll be a problem -- there's no lag to speak of between the Behringer's input and output (okay, I'm sure there's some milliseconds of lag but nothing I've ever noticed on tape dubs, anyway) so it should pretty much behave the same as if you plugged the audio out from the VCR straight into the input in the DVD recorder, sync-wise.

But let us know if I'm wrong!

[lordsmurf]

I want to play with one!
Where is one, and how much?

[mattso]

Thanks for the reassurances! I'm buying one soon, I'll let you know how it performs for this particular usage.

LordSmurf, if you look at this page you can find the U.S. price ($130) plus dealer locations.

Aus price is $200, which is very reasonable I think.

[lordsmurf]

Sweet. A store around the corner from me is a dealer.

[Jester700]

I'm amazed at the endless stream of new products Behringer seem to be bringing out, all at rock-bottom prices!

Nothing amazing about reverse engineering existing products instead of new R&D, getting the cheapest Chinese/Indonesian facility to manufacture units, and undercutting your competition.

Behringer has been sued for infringement a few times. Having said that, they are known by hobbyists (and even some semi-pros) as the king of bang for buck. They're also considered "untouchable" by audio pros. All of these views are probably oversimplifications. I have a few behringer pieces and they certainly are good for the price. But on gear where manufacturing standards are likely to affect longevity - say, in a mixing console - I'd steer clear unless price is paramount.

[mattso]

Point taken - unfortunately, price Is paramount! :P

Though I must say I'm more than happy with my little UB802 mixer.

I've seen a Drawmer NR deck, for $1000. So...I'm going to take the punt with this Behringer deck, I think.

Thanks for all your comments!

[ricky d]

Just got a qoute of $100 [DSP1424P] from a place next to my house, I'm gonna go by and order it after work. I really don't care if it works "perfect" or not (it would nice if it did) I just want to play with a new toy, as I've been looking for a nice audio HW filter for a while - def a reasonable price for me...

[mattso]

Let us know how it works! I was planning to pick one up on payday (this Wed). I have read a review somewhere that raved about the DSP1424P's "denoiser" unit. Here's hoping.

I, too, have been looking for an effective (and not-too-expensive) hardware solution for hiss removal for a good while now.

Also, I like playing with new toys too! :P

[ricky d]

ok - I just ordered it[$100.00].. It was not in stock at any stores nearby. I was told it will take no more than 1 or 2 weeks to get here.. If I get mine 1st, I will make various audio samples and zip them up (and host the file) for all to hear the different filters and enhancer features...

[lordsmurf]

I will make various audio samples and zip them up (and host the file) for all to hear the different filters and enhancer features...

I would certainly appreciate this.

[ricky d]

Just contacted the store to get the ETA status on my DSP1424P. Turns out it's on back ordered from Behringer, and I was told it will be here on or before 12/8... Doh...

[mattso]

Same situation here! :P

Like you, I'm not looking for the "Perfect Noise Reduction". I just want to lower the "hiss" level on my VHS transfers to make them cleaner. I can use it for cassette transfers too, I figure. Also multitracking - vocals, guitar, etc...

I won't forget to post my results up here. There's a great deal of info here about video restoration hardware (great resource!), but not much about the audio side of things. Would be good to offer some possible solutions!

[rbatty11]

This unit will work for LP vinyl to CD xfrs, yes??

[ozymango]

This unit will work for LP vinyl to CD xfrs, yes??

Yup, and extremely well -- in fact, this was the first use of one of these that I ever encountered. Turntable rumble is one of those sounds this device cleans up just like that.

[mattso]

For LP to CD, you really need to look at "click/pop" removal, such as in Adobe Audition. I believe there is a free plug-in for Audacity too. Goldwave has a pop/click removal function, also.

For transferring LPs to CD, I personally would stick with software, as you have more control over the outcome.

Though, I have seen hardware racks specialising in LP-to-CD restoration. One of them was in kit-form (DIY).

You'll need a good turntable, too. And a phono amp/mixer.

My quest for an effective NR unit is simply to cut the time it takes me to dub VHS to DVD. I'm striving for real-time, with no extra processing. I have too many VHS tapes, and not enough years in my life...!

[FulciLives]

I bought a VIDICRAFT AVP-100 from eBay. The total price was very cheap ... around $35.00 or so and that included shipping. This unit is old but still pops up on eBay from time to time.

Basically it is a simple proc amp but it has built-in noise reduction for audio. I've used it on some VHS tapes that a friend wanted me to convert to DVD. These VHS tapes were recorded on a 4 head mono VCR yet the VIDICRAFT AVP-100 cut the "hiss" rather well without affecting the sound quality (treble seemed ok to me and not "muted") but we all know that a mono VHS isn't high end audio

Anyways for those on the cheap it might be worth looking for one of these on eBay.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[mattso]

That Vidicraft sounds interesting. I wonder if a couple of these would do the trick?

[mattso]

I've had unexpected delays with getting my DSP1424P, but I seriously intend to get it ASAP & post my results. It really does seem to be the only one of its kind out there at the moment (for the price, that is).

The thing with hardware NR (as opposed to software NR), is that you can "preview" the results in real-time on your TV set! We are all accustomed to what "TV audio" should sound like, so IMO that is a very good calibration method.

Many times, I have denoised & tweaked a movie soundtrack on my PC, burnt the DVD, then played it on my TV to find it too bass-heavy or something weird like that. (That's with 80% normalisation).

The DSP1424P offers denoise, followed by exciter (to restore any higher freq's). It also has bass enhancement, if need be. I'm looking forward to trying it out very soon!

Here's the manual if anyone's interested. (Just right-click & save to your hard drive).

[FulciLives]

Keep us updated !

[lordsmurf]

The thing with hardware NR (as opposed to software NR), is that you can "preview" the results in real-time on your TV set! We are all accustomed to what "TV audio" should sound like, so IMO that is a very good calibration method.

Many times, I have denoised & tweaked a movie soundtrack on my PC, burnt the DVD, then played it on my TV to find it too bass-heavy or something weird like that. (That's with 80% normalisation).

I can relate to this. Same goes for video.
This is one reason I prefer hardware over software, when possible.
It's easier than calibrating a computer (and it is never 100% perfect).

[Jester700]

The thing with hardware NR (as opposed to software NR), is that you can "preview" the results in real-time on your TV set! We are all accustomed to what "TV audio" should sound like, so IMO that is a very good calibration method.

Many times, I have denoised & tweaked a movie soundtrack on my PC, burnt the DVD, then played it on my TV to find it too bass-heavy or something weird like that. (That's with 80% normalisation).

True, but this is why studios have crappy monitors in the control room - so you can hear the results *similar to* how they'll end up in "the real world". Same with having a real TV in the room. Many programs allow you to monitor via firewire out to a passthru device (I use a camcorder) and out to a TV; I know Vegas does this. I definitely prefer software, although there are times when hardware is key, and at the price that Behringer unit seems like a no brainer to have on hand.

[mattso]

True, but this is why studios have crappy monitors in the control room - so you can hear the results *similar to* how they'll end up in "the real world". Same with having a real TV in the room. Many programs allow you to monitor via firewire out to a passthru device (I use a camcorder) and out to a TV; I know Vegas does this. I definitely prefer software, although there are times when hardware is key, and at the price that Behringer unit seems like a no brainer to have on hand.

That's a good idea, to monitor your PC audio through your TV set.

Of course, the clincher deal with a hardware unit is the time saved. The PC gets avoided altogether (except for making further copies). Precise or GOP-level editing can be done on the standalone's HD, then burnt to compliant disk with menu.

Although I absolutely love fooling around with audio on my computer, I'd rather fool around with making music rather than waste time denoising movie soundtracks! (And then finding out there are artifacts/too much lower freq's/whatever)... Real-time = more fun time for me!

[rbatty11]

Also, if you rec'd it, any updates/notes?? I'm curious.. I drove over to the closest Guitar Center, but they did not stock it..

I have to ask.. Does this unit really make a noticeable improvement in audio quality in a VHS to DVD xfr?? Are we talking commercial VHS releases or home? Maybe my ears are not just sensitive enough, but I really don't hear any "hiss" or "noise" in comm'l VHS sources.

I'm working on xfring some old 70's LP bootleg releases to CD.. I used Audacity, but just not satisfied..still getting a 'tinny' sound (using Technics turntable (in the market for much nicer one), Pro-jekt phono pre-amp, to my Plinius amp, to my pc). I'm guessing the Behringer would be inserted between the turntable and pre-amp, yes?

[ricky d]

I just called GC yesterday, and they still show the ETA of my 1424P to be 12/8 - Got to wait another week...

Time will only tell if this devices is worth a damn, can't say anything until I thoroughly test it.

You might need to clean your ears in the meantime, I hear hiss all over my old VHS tapes, especially / obviously those I have to turn up to a decent voulme because they were recorded at low audio levels.

[ricky d]

Talked to GC today, the freight from China is coming into Behringer tomorrow. Then they've got to do their thing and then ship the unit to the store. I was told, possibly (up to) another 2 weeks

Damn this device - It better be worth the wait!