Video shorter than it is in CCE and other related problems

[doofuz]

Hello

I have some 10 episodes in AVI format (Video: 154 MB, 1015 Kbps, 23.976 fps, 512*384 (4:3), XVID = XVID Mpeg-4, Supported / Audio: 20 MB, 132 Kbps, 48000 Hz, 2 channels, 0x55 = MPEG Layer-3, Supported) and I want to convert them to .mpv and .mpa which I will then use in DVD-Lab to make a DVD.

The problem is that in CCE (Cinema Craft Encoder) the videos always appear shorter than they really are. I also discovered that when I open each file in VirtualDub I get an error about "improper VBR audio encoding in the source AVI file" so I saved the sound from one episode and put it back in the video (Audio -> Wav Audio...) but I still see the video shorter in CCE than in VirtualDub or AVIcodec. I've also tried the video by itself without the sound but with the same results. How can I really fix this? I've tried to add a video in CCE that doesn't give me an error when I open it in VirtualDub but I also see that video shorter than it really is. Is somthing maybe wrong on my PC or somthing wrong with my copy of CCE? This isn't supposed to be like this or is it?

I tried to use DIKO before I tried CCE but I also got problems there that I don't really think I need to mention here if you can just tell me how to fix the problem in CCE because I like CCE much better.

[manono]

Hi-

How can I really fix this?

If the AVI is 23.976fps, and you have CCE set for 29.97fps, that'll do it. You can fix it when done when you run Pulldown, I think. Or you can reencode the whole thing in CCE for the proper framerate.

I get an error about "improper VBR audio encoding in the source AVI file" so I saved the sound from one episode and put it back in the video (Audio -> Wav Audio...)

Ignore it and click "No" to that message.

[doofuz]

Well, I tried that but it didn't really work. I am able to get the audio out at the correct length (wich is 1 minute) by selecting 25fps and audio only but when I do the video like you suggested I can only get it out at 59 seconds, 1 second short. How can I fix that? I need to get the video out at 1 minute like the AVI file is. Also when I try to import the M2V file I get from Pulldown in DVD-Lab I get an error about wrong fps and it also tells me that the fps is 23.98 but then when I put that pulldown file into AVIcodec I see fps as 23.976 and there the length is said to be 1:14 so either this pulldown method is not working or I'm doing somthing wrong

[manono]

Hi-

I'm not really sure why you shortened the audio by making it 25fps length, unless you're converting to PAL, which you didn't say.

Since you are working with a 1 minute AVI, and the encoding will tale no time at all, have you actually tried to encode at 23.976fps, run Pulldown.exe afterwards (or DGPulldown), converted the audio to MP2 separately, keeping it the same length, and then authored and checked if everything is in synch? Maybe CCE is just incorrect when it says the video is 59 seconds long

And what are you doing about resizing to NTSC DVD resolution? Are you resizing in VDub and frameserving? Using an AviSynth script? And don't use CCE to handle the audio.

[doofuz]

The only thing I really need to know here is how I can get the video from AVI to MPV without losing 1 second from the video. No matter what I've tried to do with the AVI file (AVI to MPV/MPA, AVI to MPEG, NTSC or PAL, Pulldown after convertion) I ALWAYS get the audio at 1 minute but the video at 59 seconds. Why?

[doofuz]

I don't see the video as 59 seconds only in CCE, I see it also when I put the converted files into DVD-Lab. And yes, I have tried all the fps settings but with no luck. And I've also used Pulldown (GUI_pulldown actually) after that.

[doofuz]

I have also tried using TMPGEnc 3.0 XPress but that does exactly the same, no matter what I try to convert the video to (I have tried NTSC and PAL, output stream type as ES (Video + Audio) and System (Video + Audio)).

[manono]

Since you haven't actually said anywhere that you've reauthored and gotten out of synch audio, then I'll retire and maybe someone else can help. Good luck.

[Abond]

Load the avi in virtualdubmod, answer no about the VBR mp3. Click File-File information and post all info you see there.

[doofuz]

Here is a screenshot from VirtualDubMod. And just so you know, the information I gave at the start of this post is from one of the episodes but the video I've been experimenting on is a short sample of one episode but that file is in the exact same format as all the episodes I want to work with.

[doofuz]

Here's the screenshot (it didn't work somehow to upload it with my last post...?)

[Abond]

Well, now go Streams-Stream list. Right click on the audio stream and select Full processing. Then click on save wav button on the right side. After the wav is produced go back to stream list and click Add. Add the wav file and look at the properies of both audio files - original and the wav.

[pchan]

I had the similar problem recently. I used Virtualdub to demux the video i.e. direct stream video only and demux audio to wav i.e. full processing. Mux back the video and audio using direct stream and encode to MPEG2. You need to set your encoder to 29.97 fps.

[doofuz]

Abond, I've just done that and they are both the same length, 00:01:00.000. What now?

[doofuz]

pchan, I don't think I can do that, I don't have the original video, as in I don't have the video in dvd format, only in AVI format. Or am I not getting the point?

[Abond]

Now, select the original audio, click Disable, select the wav, click Disable (if you stil have it in the list). Click OK.
File-Save as-avi. At the new screen select DirectStreamCopy (the default is usually Full Processing). Give it a name (name-silent.avi for example) click Save. Once the silent avi is saved, load it in VDMod and compare the frame number and fps with the original avi. Drop the silent avi in CCE. Look for the frame numbers CCE reported. If they are the same, but the time is different, try to find out at which fps CCE is calculating the duration.
EDIT:
I was in a hurry when posting that. Maybe the best idea is to encode this short video with CCE and then to load the encoded mpv file in VDMod. Here you can compare the file info.

[doofuz]

Ok, I've tried that and when I want to see the file information in VirtualDubMod on the silent video that I made from the original it crashes. Then I tried putting the silent video and the original in CCE and there I saw that they have both the same frame count (1439 frames). I also tried saving the audio from the original, adding it back again, saving that as a new AVI file, then saving that AVI file without the sound and when I open that in VirtualDubMod it doesn't make it crash and I see that it also has the same frame count as the original What can I really do? I just want the video to be the correct length after conversion, is that so hard to do?

[pchan]

pchan, I don't think I can do that, I don't have the original video, as in I don't have the video in dvd format, only in AVI format. Or am I not getting the point?

The objective is to fix the audio. You have managed to demux the audio and save to a wav file. Please follow these steps.

1. Demux the audio and save it to wav format(call it Test.wav). - completed.
2. Demux the video and save it as avi format.
Use Virtualdub (don't use Virtualdubmod) and load your avi file. Click Audio tab and select No Audio. Next click Video tab and select Direct Stream Copy. Click File tab and select Save as AVI. Use a different file name(e.g. Test) since you intend to keep the original file. Open the Test.AVI with Virtualdub and play it. You should not hear any sound.
3. Close Virtualdub and relaunch it. Load the Test.AVI and click Audio tab and select Direct Stream copy and the select WAV Audio... Go and choose Test.wav. Click Video tab and select Direct Stream copy. Click File tab and select Save as AVI .. name your file FINAL.AVI. Use Virtualdub and play it... you should hear the audio.
4. Encode FINAL.AVI to MPEG2.
5. Import it to DVDLab and you should see the Video and Audio having the exact length.

[Abond]

4. Encode FINAL.AVI to MPEG2.

Unfortunately it seems this is the moment where things go wrong.

Use Virtualdub (don't use Virtualdubmod) and load your avi file.

I am only curious - is this personal preference or you have something in mind?
@doofuz
Encode the silent avi with CCE and load the outputed mpv or m2v file in VDMod. Look file-file information for the frame count and fps. I think there is something wrong with the video as such a crash in VDMod is not normal.

[doofuz]

Well, I've tried that already and if I save a video only avi from the original avi, put that through CCE and then try to get the information on the resulting mpv file in VDMod it makes VDMod crash. And then there's another thing I just discovered, when I use CCE the frame rate is selected as 23.976, the same as in the original video. However, when I look at the resulting mpv file in DVD-Lab it says the file has fps as 29.97. Is that maybe the cause of all this trouble?

[Abond]

Well, when you found the time to be incorrect then?
the 23.976 fps mpv must be pulldowned to 29.97 before to get loaded in DVD-Lab. You can use DGPulldown or Pulldown.exe to achieve that. Then load it in DVD-Lab.
Another way to check if the encoded video has the same framecount is to load it in DGIndex, to start preview and to look the statistics window.

[pchan]

Use Virtualdub (don't use Virtualdubmod) and load your avi file.

I am only curious - is this personal preference or you have something in mind?[/quote]
Just preference and more straight forward for demuxing and muxing.

@doofuz,
DVDlab did a pulldown and make it 29.97. Please refer to my first post and I said "set your encoder to 29.97 fps."

EDIT : I went down that path before and got a few hard knocks. Pulldown by DVDlab is causing audio to out sync by a few seconds.

[doofuz]

Nothing works! I've tried setting CCE to 29.97fps and then I used Pulldown, I also tried DGPulldown, to do a pulldown from 29.97 to 29.976 and whatever I select the video always ends up as 59 seconds instead of 1 minute. I even tried to make it end as a PAL video (I don't care if it ends as PAL or NTSC, I just want this to work right...) using the method that Abond describes in this post, but of course the same thing happens Isn't there just somthing wrong with this small clip I'm using and all the other videos I want to put on DVD that are in the exact same format? It can't be, but what else could the reason for this be?

[manono]

I figured you'd be sorry jumping into this one, Abond.

And he's correct about VDubMod crashing on MPVs and M2Vs. For some stupid reason I "upgraded" to 1.15.10.2 and it does the same thing for me. The old 1.14.??.? worked fine. Should have left well enough alone.

And doofus still hasn't even bothered to author the thing. It would take about 10 seconds (using Muxman anyway) to find out if there's an audio asynch, which, I guess, is his worry.

[pchan]

@doofuz,
Please give this one more try. You already demux the audio to wav and mux back to the video. Set CCE to 29.97 fps. Encode. There is no need to do pulldown once your video is 29.97.
Drag and drop your final mpeg2 file onto DVDlab. You should see the audio and video file having the same length.

P.S. I used Virtualdub to do demuxing and muxing and TMPGEnc to encode.

[Abond]

@doofuz
It is interesting to know how you determine the length of the encoded clip.
@pchan

Set CCE to 29.97 fps.

I never tried this in CCE. Are you sure the CCE will not convert the frame rate (the source is 23.976) making it faster and unsynch to audio?
@manono
He-he I am still using the old 1.5.4.1 (newest is 1.5.10.2)

[pchan]

I never tried this in CCE. Are you sure the CCE will not convert the frame rate (the source is 23.976) making it faster and unsynch to audio?

Encoding to the right fram rate avoid the need to do pulldown.

[manono]

Nonsense. The OP is worried about a second's worth of loss. You're asking him to turn his 60 second video into a 48 second video. If the source is 23.976fps, you encode at 23.976fps and run pulldown afterwards to output 29.97fps before sending it to DVDLab. The "right framerate" is 23.976fps.

Want proof? Open a 23.976fps video in CCE. Note the length. Go inside CCE and change it to 29.97fps. Now note the new and shorter length.

[doofuz]

@manono
I have bothered to author the thing with DVD-Lab and then I've played the resulting VIDEO_TS folder with PowerDVD and the only time I get to hear and see the last second of the video, where one last word is spoken, is when I play the original AVI file in PowerDVD

@pchan
Ok, but what about the "Inv 3:2 pulldown" option that gets automaticly selected in CCE when I select 29.97 as fps? Should I have that on? And I've already tried using TMPGEnc to demux the audio to wav and to mux it back to the video but with no success. I tried that once more but with no success again. It's also a bit weird that when I use TMPGEnc (I've also used TMPGEnc 3.0 XPress) with the original AVI that I always end up with video and audio files that are 2:52 in length but not 1:00 and it looks like TMPGEnc is actually seeing the source file like this I also see that in TMPGEnc 3.0 XPress that it detects the video to being 30fps and 1800 frames but not 1439 which is what I see in CCE and VirtualDub. Then when I put the Final.AVI file (the one where I demuxed the audio to wav and then muxed it back in with the silent version of the video) into TMPGEnc I get it correct with 1 minute in length and 1439 frames. But when I put those files in DVD-Lab I still get the video as 59 seconds and only audio as 1 minute

[Abond]

Ah, I see you are looking for the length of video in DVD-Lab. And what if DVD-Lab doesn't estimate it right? Have you tried to confirm that with another program? It might look strange, but I would recomend DGIndex or Cuttermaran.
I have currently found that CCE 2.67 would encode 1 frame less. Well, not that it matered (134532 frames instead 134533 frames) because everything was in synch after multiplexing, but in your case the timing would be 0:59:976.