Video shorter than it is in CCE and other related problems

[doofuz]

Well, we're finally getting closer to the solution of this mess 8) I opened the MPV file from CCE in DGIndex but that didn't solve anything, that program doesn't show me the length of the video or maybe I just don't know how it works. But when I play the video there the elapsed time ends at 59 seconds Then I looked at Cuttermaran (oh boy, like I don't have enough of programs installed for dvd related jobs already... hehe :P) and that's when I finally saw somthing good for a change. There the video is said to be 1 minute (or exactly 1:00,018) and the audio (which Cuttermaran loads also when I open the MPV file in it) is 1 minute also (1:00,024). So, that must mean that the problem is in DVD-Lab but not CCE, TMPGEnc or every other program that I've used. The question now is then simply, how can I get DVD-Lab to detect the right length of the video? I'm using DVD-Lab Pro 1.53 by the way.

[doofuz]

No, wait, that was a MPV file I got when I was testing that convertion from NTSC to PAL so I haven't really gotten that close to the solution at all That file still needed pulldown or somthing because at least DVD-Lab was not accepting it and wanted to do a pulldown. I've deleted that MPV file now so I can't really look at it more now so I used CCE again and then opened the resulting MPV and MPA files in Cuttermaran. And with the fps at 23.976 in CCE I get the length of the video there as 48 seconds and the audio of course 1 minute but with the fps at 29.97 I get the video length as 38 seconds, audio 48 seconds. I still haven't tried to do a pulldown after that, like DVD-Lab tells me needs to be done, but I'm sure that won't get me anywhere. I still think the real problem is in DVD-Lab where it loses the last second of the video.

[doofuz]

Ok, now I selected fps as 29.97 in CCE and Resize as 720x480 with Inv 3:2 pulldown unchecked and DVD-Lab accepted those files, with the video as 47 seconds and audio as 48 seconds, but when I open the files in Cutermaran video and audio are both 48 seconds there which prooves to me that the problem must be in DVD-Lab.

[Nelson37]

There are still errors in your method for processing the framerate, but...

Your basic issue was a hang-up with the time values displayed in DVD-Lab. Many progs will give mildly inaccurate readings of one sort or another, finalize your output and play in the intended destination device, see if playback is correct. That is the only test that counts.

Also, if it was not made clear, it is essential to save that VBR audio out to WAV, and replace the original audio with the WAV. Many progs cannot properly handle VBR audio.

CCE has issues with no audio present in an AviSynth script, or at least one past version did. However, as for quality of audio encoding, a fairly thorough blind audio test conducted on this board some time ago established pretty conclusively that CCE is NOT inferior as an audio encoder to TMPGenc + TooLame. There was at least one other encoder tested, IIRC, but the basic conclusion was that CCE got a bad rap in this area.

[pchan]

@doofuz,
Glad to know you are almost there.

If you want to give a last try, use TMPGEnc to encode your AVI(with WAV audio) using standard DVD NTSC template.

[doofuz]

Ok, I did that but still I get the video as 59 seconds and audio at 1 minute in DVD-Lab However, in Cuttermaran I see the video as 48 seconds I've tried to use pulldown on the video file but it doesn't seem to work. What is DVD-Lab doing to the video when I add it that shows it as 59 seconds but not 48 seconds and how can I do that outside of DVD-Lab so it will be done correctly without losing the last second?

[pchan]

What is the audio and video length for your entire movie ?

[doofuz]

The length of the original video I'm working with is exactly 1 minute.

[Abond]

Well, your clip is still 1 minute after conversion, simly DVD-Lab is not correct in the estimation of the length. But you are wrong ,if you think that you gonna lose this one second. Even if DVD-Lab is wrong with the estimation of the video length, it will author all the 1 minute in the DVD. If you want to have correct estimation of the clip length in the authoring program, simply use another authoring program.
Now, it seems you didn't follow what I suggest to you. That is why you have 48 sec in Cuttermaran.
I repeat it once more for the last time. You must encode your clip as 23.976 fps and after that you need to apply pulldown to it, 23.976 to 29.97 to have full NTSC DVD compliance.

[doofuz]

Ok, I encoded my clip in CCE as 23.976 fps and then I applied pulldown to it from 23.976 to 29.97 fps. After that I put it in DVD-Lab, where I saw the video still as only 59 seconds, but I compiled the dvd anyway. After that I used Nero to make a ISO file, so I wouldn't waste a dvd disc on testing (I don't have any dvd rw, at least none that work...), then I mounted that with Daemon Tools and finally played the "dvd disc" with both PowerDVD and Videolan. In PowerDVD the last second is dropped but in Videolan it is actually played, at least most of it (it isn't quite as complete as in the original but very close).

So, I've decided to test this on all the episodes I want to work with. That will take some time, the convertion at least, so I will probably not post here again until tomorrow with the results. And this time I'm going to write everything on a dvd disc and test it in a dvd player. Wish me luck! 8)

[Abond]

Well, then dump DVD-Lab and use another authoring tool. I would recommend Gui for DVD author if you want menus, or Muxman if you don't want them.

[doofuz]

I really want menus, and I've put a bit of work into making a menu in Photoshop as a psd file and it would be great if there's another program like DVD-Lab where I can use those menus because I really don't want to remake them. Can I use psd menus in Gui for DVD author?

[manono]

Hi-

So, we've narrowed down DVDLab Pro as the culprit here? Here's what I would suggest. You have a good DVD with menus out of DVDLab Pro, right? The only problem is that you sometimes lose the final second of the video, thanks to DVDLab Pro. You might burn and test in your standalone first to confirm that you don't get the entire video. I would suggest first reauthoring the video with Muxman, playing it afterwards (both the vobs and the DVD it creates) to test in various players. If it's OK when you test, then the next step is to replace the video that DVDLab Pro created with the video that Muxman created. This is easily done using the Replace button in VobBlanker.

That's kind of a long way around, but that way you will keep the menu you spent so much time creating, and you'll get a working video from Muxman out of it. Using VobBlanker to replace the "bad" video with the "good" video is a very easy process, but if you need further instructions, there are many people here that can show you how.

[Nelson37]

DVD-LAB is consistently giving incorrect time values for your videos. This would strongly suggest that you eliminate it from your production process.

You are finally processing your framerate correctly. You have an NTSC film file, it should be processed that way with pulldown applied later. Good.

Now take just the M2v file, mux it with the processed, extracted WAV, and test that file WITHOUT AUTHORING. It has been demonstrated that DVD-Lab is not giving correct time values, it may not handle a 23.976 file correctly. Regardless of reason, it is clearly the weak link in your process. Stop using it. Get your file correct, which IMO it has been throughout most of this process, and then after the file is known to be correct find an authoring tool that will work with it.

[doofuz]

@manono
I don't think I need to go so far, I think everything is finally correct just like it should be. It's true that DVD-Lab is not showing me the correct length of some video clips (some of the episodes have the same length as the audio for them) but I've discovered that despite this it will probably work in a dvd player as long as the dvd player works more like Videolan than PowerDVD because in Videolan I can hear the last second but not in PowerDVD. And I was always testing the authored and mounted ISO file in PowerDVD but not Videolan which probably has somthing to do with why I thought the last second was missing hehe

@Nelson37
I don't think I need to do all that. It looks like everything is finally working great so I think that I can just ignore this "bug" or whatever it is in DVD-Lab 8)

However, I still haven't burned that dvd because after I had prepared all the episodes everything was a bit too big to fit on the dvd so I had to go through CCE again with a lower bitrate. What bitrate do you recommend for animated episodes? I'm using 1-pass VBR and min 2000 and max 3000 in bitrate because I want those 10 episodes to fit on one dvd disc. Is that too low for animated video or is it ok?

[Abond]

Well, the source is low in resolution to begin with, and it is 4:3. Taking the fugures in your first post the episodes should take about 3 1/2 hours. Calculating the bitrate with 160 kbps for audio give us about 2700 kbps for video.
The 1-pass VBR doesn't give the tight control over bitrate, correspondingly over file size.
I would go with 352x480 resizing (half D1), 3-pass VBR (including vaf creation) min 500, average 2700, max 8000.

[doofuz]

@abond
I did what you suggested and the whole thing fits perfectly on the dvd, like 99% or somthing, but the video appears just a bit out of focus. When I used min 2000 and max 3000 in bitrate like I said here above everything fitted also, but it was like 80% of the full size of the dvd and the video was very good (at least in the pc). Also when I did that there was a border around the video but now the video is stretched over the whole screen. Did I do somthing wrong? Is it that resizing you told me to do or?

[doofuz]

Should I maybe try doing everything without resizing? And I was wondering, when I will play this NTSC dvd in a dvd player, will it be stretched over the whole screen or will it have that black border like I see on my pc? Or will it only be stretched if I do the resizing?

[doofuz]

Ok, I've tried converting in CCE without resizing and that seems to work perfectly but I get this black border around the video. So, I've tried resizing to some standard resolutions for NTSC such as 352x240, 352x480, 704x480 and 720x480 (are there any other standard resolutions? found those in DIKO...) and the video always gets stretched over the whole screen but the image is a bit blurry. Is it possible to resize the video to a standard NTSC size so it will be stretched over the whole screen but without making the image blurry?

[doofuz]

If I set the size of the video in CCE as a PAL size rather than a NTSC size but still have fps as 23.976 and then after that I do a pulldown to 25fps will it work? It will really be better if I can just make this PAL (I do live in europe, but the dvd player can play NTSC too... but I want it more to be PAL than NTSC). Any suggestions?