Help on building a new computer

[zzyzzx]

I'm in the planning stages of building a new computer. One thing I need is a new case and MB. I am still using a vintage 1994 AT style case with a 230W power supply. Anyway, my new case will be ATX. Anyway, my question is does the new case come with MB standoffs or not? I have no idea. I've bought new motherboards before and simply reused my old ones, but I am not sure if I can do that this time so I want to buy them if I need them. Specifically I am referring to these things:



or



Do these come with the case or do I buy them separately?

[tekkieman]

Most do. I'm buying a new case for a server, and they all come with them. I'm getting mine from Newegg.

[ViRaL1]

Any decent case will come with standoffs.

[888888]

I think every case comes with standoffs. Even crappy cases. I doubt they even sell cases without providing them although I don't know for sure. I don't like plastic standoffs at all and prefer cases with only those brass ones. I suppose it's a matter of preference. Here is the case I used to build my new computer recently:



http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=11-132-017&depa=0

It came with brass standoffs. You can read my review if you want, it's under the reviewer name "dvdcd".

[zzyzzx]

The thing is that I've never bought a case before and all the pictures they show of case interiors don't show these standoffs, so I had to ask.

[redwudz]

They usually have a plastic bag of screws, standoffs and other small parts rattling around in the bottom of the case, along with a line cord if the case comes with a power supply. I use the small plastic buttons without threads to support the board where there are no mounting points in the case.

[888888]

The thing is that I've never bought a case before and all the pictures they show of case interiors don't show these standoffs, so I had to ask.

This case has a pic of the interior with the standoffs already installed! They come pre-installed on this one.

I bet there are a bunch of such cases on NewEgg with pics of pre-installed standoff interiors.

[rallynavvie]

Which case are you looking at getting?

[tekkieman]

Here's the one I just got for my server. Only $26.00 from newegg.

[zzyzzx]

Which case are you looking at getting?

http://www.directron.com/7106.html








Three 5.25", two external and one internal 3.5" drive bays. Seven slots. Dimensions: 6(H)x17(D)x16.75(W)"/ 152 x 432 x 425.45 mm. Screwless mounting mechanism for a 8x8cm case fan in the front.

Manufacturers website indicates two internal (hidden) and two external 3.5" bays. Note that you can't see any standoffs, but I asked and they said it does come with them. Also, pic shows a power supply, but it does nto come with one. I know of no other vendor that sells this case (in black) and few others in some other color that I don't want. Plus I'm getting MB and CPU there probably also. I als considered the Enlight 7200 but the reviews on NewEgg say that the HD cage is right above the CPU which I think is real dumb and you have to remove the front panel to remove the top panel, also real dumb.

[ViRaL1]

Any special reason you opted for a desktop case?

[rallynavvie]

Whoa, desktop? Gravity will keep the board in place, why use stand-offs?

Seriously though, unless you really need that form factor I'd advise against those. They generally have more heat issues and are also noiser than ATX mids. At least with mids you have a pretty good selection of thermal efficiency and noise for the case. If I were to get a desktop I think I'd limit myself to the Lian Li versions. Granted they look like stereo components, but hey

[zzyzzx]

Any special reason you opted for a desktop case?

1. I have a desktop style case now, so why bother changing. I'm becoming an old crumudgen.

2. My computer furniture is set up for a desktop. I would hate to rearrange my computer desk (i.e. - take apart and reconfigure for Tower).

3. I believe that you are incorrect about the heat issues. Last time I checked heat rises, and a desktop is superior in that respect. With a tower you have gravity working against you. For example, heat from my video card won't be rising to my CPU, etc. Everything will be setup so that heat from the items on the bottom won't be rising to warm up items above them. Plus, I won't have my add on cards applying pressure in the wrong direction on the solder joints of the cars holder slots.

4. Most of the larger sized desktops are as big or slightly larger than most mid towers. My current case is 16 x 16, so any of the new ones I am considering are at least a little bit bigger, so that should help some.

5. My existing vintage 1994 desktop case doesn't even have a case fan, I had to use an add on fan that looks like this:



And another in the front (HD cooler, used as a case fan):




A new case will have a better PS fan, a regular case fan in the back, which should be sufficient since I don't overclock and am using a crappy old 4MB video card which doesn't generate much heat. If it does I can use one of my slot fans (I have two, one is a spare).

Now again, why will I have thermal issues with this case? I would not have even needed either the slot or HD fans if I hadn't added a second memory stick to my current setup. Is there something that I am missing here?




Does Li Lian make a large desktop case? Most desktop cases are too small for me.

[zzyzzx]

They generally have more heat issues and are also noiser than ATX mids. At least with mids you have a pretty good selection of thermal efficiency and noise for the case.

I fail to see why a tower VS desktop one would be noiser than the other, everything else being equal. Please explain.

[rallynavvie]

I haven't seen a desktop with an option for 120mm fans. Larger-diameter, low-rpm fans are quieter and move more air than faster, smaller-diameter fans. Since switching from a case with 3x 80mm fans to the new one with 2x 120mm fans there is no comparison in noise. Also slot fans are known to be noisier than normal chassis fans because of the surface area involved in those. I've got desktop form-factor machines at work for terminals and they are a lot noisier than our workstations.

I've seen rackmount cases that have phenominal heat dissipation but I never understood why desktop cases don't adopt some of these features. They take up similar space and the layout is pretty similar. All you need is rubber feet on the bottom of the 2U and a dust guard over it and you've got a desktop that'll drop into a rack

[zzyzzx]

All you need is rubber feet on the bottom of the 2U and a dust guard over it and you've got a desktop that'll drop into a rack

I don't understand the reference to 2U

[ViRaL1]

U is a unit of measurement for determining the height of a component for mounting on a rack.

Example of a 1U case.



2U



4U



They also make 3U, but I figured these would be enough. Your average non-server case is 4U.

[rallynavvie]

4U is an ATX tower on its side more or less. The 2U is closer to desktop size, maybe toward 3U for more drives.

One other thing people sometimes complain about desktops is that dust can settle on the mobo a lot easier when it sits like that. Personally I don't see how that can be a huge deal as long as you've got filters on all the intakes. Older ones don't get so hot so it's not so much an issue but I've pulled some old P2 desktops apart only to find an angry family of dust bunnies inside.

[zzyzzx]

I ended up getting the Directron case. It's much nicer than pictured. One thing that wasn't in the proiduct description is that it does have a place in the back for two 60mm fans. Should I install fans there or try to use it first then see if I need them?

I'll already have an 80mm front fan and two PS fans, won't that be enough?

I still need to buy a CPU, so I still need to mail order something so now would be the best time to buy the fans.

[rallynavvie]

60mm ball-bearing fans are louder than their larger counterparts. If you want to put fans back there use 60mm mag-lev fans if you can find them. They'll be a lot quieter at least. In the picture it doesn't show any holes for fans in the back other than the PSU fan, do these go opposite the I/O panel on the board?

[zzyzzx]

60mm ball-bearing fans are louder than their larger counterparts. If you want to put fans back there use 60mm mag-lev fans if you can find them. They'll be a lot quieter at least. In the picture it doesn't show any holes for fans in the back other than the PSU fan, do these go opposite the I/O panel on the board?

The back picture is a previous version of this case. The back fans go above the I/O board (is that good or bad?).

I am not overclocking or using a fancy video card either so I am not sure if I really need yet still more case fans and I can use my PCI slot fan if need be until I get case fans if that is a problem initially.

[rallynavvie]

I guess it depends on the system that's going in it. There are some chipsets and boards that generate more heat than others. Same goes for CPUs. What processor will be going in the case?

[zzyzzx]

I guess it depends on the system that's going in it. There are some chipsets and boards that generate more heat than others. Same goes for CPUs. What processor will be going in the case?

Model: AMD Athlon XP 2600+
Core: Thouroughbred
Operating Frequency: 2.08 GHz
FSB: 333MHz
Cache: L1/128K; L2/256K
Socket: Socket A / 462

512MB PC 3200 RAM
PCI video card that doesn't generate much heat.
Nvidia nforce 2chipset (Biostar M7NCD MB).

I assume that the internal Power Supply fan blows into the power supply and that external power supply fan blows out the back of the case?

[Cobra]

Yes, I have a dual-fan PSU and this is the case. Why would it be otherwise?

Your motherboard should also come with standoffs.

[rallynavvie]

Actually I'd recommend maybe getting a good aftermarket cooler (not one of the crazy huge ones) to put on that processor with a quiet 80mm fan like a Vantec Stealth and then you won't have to worry about the processor ever getting hot. I don't overclock mine and I've got hefty aftermarket sinks on them just for that reason. The more efficient the CPU cooling is the less heat build-up you'll have.

[zzyzzx]

Still haven't finished. I have the motherboard on the case now, with ram, cpu, and cpu cooler installed. Since I have an AMD processor (Sempron), I don't need to use this power supply lead, correct:



Only for Intel processors, correct? I don't have a place to plug it into anyway, just want to do a sanity check. I distinctly remember having to use it while building a computer for somebody else.

[stiltman]

no place to plug in = don't plug it in

[zzyzzx]

I'm thinking that the other mystery power connector might be a SATA power connector.

[stiltman]

I'm thinking that the other mystery power connector might be a SATA power connector.

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1157316#1157316

[ViRaL1]

That 4-pin plug is P4 (well, socket 478) specific. Any other extra connectors?