Star Trek dying??????

[yoda313]

Hello,

Here's a New York Time's article talking about the decline of the Star Trek franchise (due to Enterprise no doubt ):

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/31/arts/television/31trek.html?ei=5070&en=a6aaa1675a647...=all&position=


By WILLIAM S. KOWINSKI

Published: August 31, 2004


LOS ANGELES, Aug. 30 - Could "Star Trek" be dying? It's enough to make Mr. Spock laugh.

"This is so funny," said Leonard Nimoy, who played Mr. Spock, directed two "Star Trek" feature films and produced another. " 'Star Trek' has died several times and come back stronger than ever."

Over the weekend Mr. Nimoy joined others from the cast of the original "Star Trek" television series at a fan convention here organized by Planet Xpo to honor James Doohan, who played Scotty, the Enterprise engineer, in his last convention appearance. Mr. Doohan, who is to receive his star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame Tuesday, is showing signs of Alzheimer's disease, a family spokesman said. So with the exception of DeForest Kelley, who played Dr. Leonard McCoy and died in 1999, the Enterprise crew gathered one last time on Sunday.

There are reasons to question "Star Trek's" continued viability. Though the feature film series has grossed more than a billion dollars for Paramount, the last two outings have sputtered at the box office. The most recent release, "Star Trek Nemesis," could not hold its own against installments of the "Lord of the Rings" and "Harry Potter" film series in the summer of 2002.

And since "Star Trek: The Next Generation" received an Emmy nomination as best dramatic series and left the air a legitimate hit in 1994, subsequent "Star Trek" television dramas have slowly lost ratings ground. Completing its third season last spring after a generally rough ratings year for television drama, the current series, "Star Trek: Enterprise," faced cancellation by UPN.

In an echo of the original series's fate, it was saved after a fan letter-writing campaign but rescheduled on Fridays at 8 p.m. for the coming season, beginning in October. Both the UPN president, Dawn Ostroff, and the Paramount television president, Garry Hart, point to the example of "The X Files," a series aimed at similar viewers, that found its audience on Fridays. (They are also happy that "Enterprise" will no longer be competing with "American Idol.")

Still, Friday has also been a graveyard for shows meant to appeal to young adult viewers, including the original "Star Trek" in 1969.

Even Mr. Nimoy sees cause for concern. He likens the current situation to the period after the first "Star Trek" feature film, when "I felt that 'Star Trek' was like a beached whale," he said. "I think something similar is happening now. 'Star Trek' is in this stranded situation. The ideas that were propelling it have run dry."

Some people suggest the problem is audience fatigue. Some say it is creative exhaustion. One solution to both, several actors, writers, producers and directors of past "Star Trek" incarnations say, may be to stop making new "Star Trek" stories for a while.

"As soon as one series ends, the next one begins right away," said Denise Crosby, an actor in "Star Trek: The Next Generation" as well as executive producer of the new documentary "Trekkies 2." "How can you sustain that? The bar has been raised so high with sci-fi films. I'm not talking just about special effects but interesting, elaborate tales. You need to step back and refocus on what's pertinent to this moment in time."

LeVar Burton, who directed 27 episodes of four "Star Trek" series and was a star of "The Next Generation," also favors a hiatus. " 'Star Trek's' just not special enough, not anymore," he said. "They need to shut the whole thing down, wait five years, create an interest, an excitement, a hunger for it again."

The convention here offers an opportunity to look back at a 40-year cultural phenomenon that has produced 10 movies, hundreds of hours of 5 TV series and some of the most devoted fans in entertainment history. On Tuesday Paramount is releasing "Trekkies 2" on DVD. it is about those fans, and the DVD set of the first season of the original "Star Trek" series.

Trekkies are of two minds' about the franchise's trajectory. "There's a large group that thinks it's time to give "Trek" a rest," said Michael W. Malotte, president of the International "Star Trek" Fan Association, with 230 chapters worldwide. "There's another group that says, 'I enjoy Trek, I don't agree with a lot of what they're doing, but I still enjoy watching.' "

Those who are rooting for more new "Star Trek" are buzzing this summer about Manny Coto, the new co-executive producer of the current series, "Enterprise," which is set in the century before Capt. James T. Kirk, the original commander. "My goal is to deepen and expand its relationship to the 'Star Trek' universe," Mr. Coto said, "to fulfill its promise as a true prequel series."

This relationship will be made visible with the appearance of Brent Spiner (who played Mr. Data in "The Next Generation") in a story told over three episodes, the coming season's preferred format. Mr. Burton is to direct the third of these episodes. Negotiations are under way for a similar appearance by William Shatner, perhaps even playing Captain Kirk.

Another arc of stories will concern civil war on Vulcan, Mr. Spock's planet, which Mr. Coto says will covertly examine "the war in Iraq and the direction of the country." That story line reflects "Star Trek's" longstanding commitment to, as Mr. Burton puts it, "comment on our present condition by examining it in a future context."

Even if a pause could be creatively useful, commercial calculation will probably determine "Star Trek's" fate, and its recent problems may not be decisive.

"Movies cost so much to make that apparently the only thing that strikes the studios as worth doing is franchise-related," said Nicholas Meyer, who directed "Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan" and "Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country." "Whether it's other movies, comic books, video games, it doesn't matter, as long as there is some presale. Which is not to say they can't turn out a good movie. A lot of good things are done for the wrong reasons."

Though he acknowledges that the performance of "Star Trek Nemesis" was disappointing, Rick Berman, the film's producer and the executive producer of the current "Enterprise" television series. noted that it was the 10th film in the series, "and I highly doubt it was the last." Discussions about the next film are "in a very preliminary stage," he said, adding that the story being considered "would not involve any of the casts that have existed in previous films and television series."

Mr. Hart, the Paramount executive, said that while another "Star Trek" television series was not being planned, he doubted that there would be more than a season or two pause after "Enterprise" before the next incarnation.

" 'Star Trek' has been the most successful franchise in the history of television," he said. "I have no doubt there will be a demand for more 'Star Trek' on television."

Even if "Star Trek" pauses or stops, most people agree that the fan clubs and conventions will continue. In some ways, fandom has become self-sufficient. For years fans have created and disseminated their own "Star Trek" stories, first on mimeographed pages, then on fan fiction Internet sites. Now, with increasingly accessible digital technology, they are creating their own films.

"They are no longer bound by what the TV tells them to do," said Eugene Roddenberry, the 30-year-old son of "Star Trek's" creator, Gene Roddenberry, who recently agreed to help produce a live-action fan film. "They can go do it themselves, which I love."

Eugene Roddenberry is also working on a documentary called "Trek Nation," which highlights "Star Trek's" impact on world culture and its fans' lives. Fan organizations typically do charity work and public service, and some require it.

"Many fans live their lives by these philosophies like the Prime Directive and I.D.I.C.," said Roger Nygard, director of "Trekkies 2." The Prime Directive was to avoid interfereing with less advanced cultures, and fans have adopted it as a principle of noninterference. I.D.I.C. stands for "infinite diversity in infinite combinations," the Vulcan motto adopted by fans to summarize Star Trek's commitment to diversity and equality.

Over the weekend the original "Star Trek" actors emphasized those themes to their convention audiences, as they usually do.

"Because the fans are loyal to Gene's dream, we are loyal to the fans," Nichelle Nichols said on Sunday. She played Uhura, the communications officer.

The bond goes both ways. "In a society with so much violence and stupidity, the conventions are an oasis where you can find some genuinely good people who believe in humanity and respect the rights of others," said Walter Koenig, who played Ensign Pavel Chekov, the assistant navigator on the Enterprise.

"Star Trek" is notable for having created its own elaborate history of the future, which together with its themes, best stories and strongest characters add up to a modern mythology. "You'd be hard pressed to find anybody who doesn't know what a Klingon is, or doesn't know what 'Beam me up, Scotty' is all about," Mr. Berman said. "It is a phenomenon that will continue to exist, and whether it will continue to exist after a pause or not, probably in the long run doesn't matter."

Just one indication of "Star Trek's" intersection with real life came at the convention on Saturday night, when the featured speaker at the banquet honoring Mr. Doohan was Neil Armstrong, the first human to walk on the moon.

Ending a talk full of "Star Trek" references, including a wish for a Federation starship for his next command, Mr. Armstrong addressed Mr. Doohan: "From one old engineer to another: thanks,

[indolikaa]

They need a big, bad war.


I like the direction the Star Wars universe took with the New Jedi Order series. We get tired of seeing the Good Guys win all the time. The Federation needs a good ass-kicking and some long-overdue suffering.

Not the Borg, either. Gene once quipped that the machine planet in Star Trek I was the Borg homeworld. But nobody ever took that idea anywhere. So I say, bring in a new enemy and let them reap hell on our peace-loving Federationists.

[gitreel]

I stopped watching the series after tng.

I loved tng, but all the series after tng blew chunks.

I love watching the movies though.

[northcat_8]

Star Trek...now there's another Star Wars type that the world would be better off without.

[Reaper88]

They need a big, bad war.


I like the direction the Star Wars universe took with the New Jedi Order series. We get tired of seeing the Good Guys win all the time. The Federation needs a good ass-kicking and some long-overdue suffering.

Not the Borg, either. Gene once quipped that the machine planet in Star Trek I was the Borg homeworld. But nobody ever took that idea anywhere. So I say, bring in a new enemy and let them reap hell on our peace-loving Federationists.

They kinna went down that road with the dominion war in DS9. The last couple of seasons on DS9 were great just for that reason alone.

[gitreel]

DS9 was pointless. They were on a space station near a wormhole. They did not go anywhere.

[Reaper88]

Thats what i thought at first about DS9, but after i started watching it i really got into that show. Its just a different side of star trek. Not for everybody i guess.

[indolikaa]

DS9 was pointless. They were on a space station near a wormhole. They did not go anywhere.

"Go? Where are we going?"

"Where they went."

"Suppose they went nowhere!"

"Well, this will be your big chance to get away from it all."

[Reaper88]

DS9 was pointless. They were on a space station near a wormhole. They did not go anywhere.

"Go? Where are we going?"

"Where they went."

"Suppose they went nowhere!"

"Well, this will be your big chance to get away from it all."

Gotta love Kirk and bones

[yoda313]

Hello,

Star Trek...now there's another Star Wars type that the world would be better off without.

What is this SCI FI bashing week??? TGPO wrote the same thing in my other Star Wars thread. Get over it. SCI FI is here to stay!!!!

Kevin

[gitreel]

I love sci-fi.

I just thought every series since tng sucked.

[yoda313]

Hello,

Gitreel - I wasn't talking about you. This is what I was referring to:

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1034856#1034856

The series would have been best if Lucas had never made them in the first place

They got to give up. We're here to stay!!!!

Kevin

[/quote]

[indolikaa]

tgpo's disgruntled because he never got an Inflatable Princess Leia doll when he was a kid, and this is just his way of dealing with it.

[Capmaster]

Star Wars was great, but it'll have to go quite a ways to catch ST in sheer fan numbers.

I was a fan of ST-TOS. Then TNG came out and I cried - Blasphemers!!! And I refused to watch it. Then about 1993 when the show was winding down I started watching it and got hooked. Really hooked.

Then DS9 came along and at first I thought "who are they kidding". But I started watching it because of Terry Farrell. Who wouldn't
Now I'm hooked on DS9 with its uniqueness, the Defiant, a Ferengi as a main character, a Cardassian as a main character, and a shape-shifter as a main character. Brilliant plot lines, and Avery Brooks is an outstanding choice for his role. I love it

Then Voyager came out and I thought "A female version of Kirk?" Never!!! Then we started watching it and it was good. Not up to the standard set by TNG or DS9, but good. Then about midway through the series they lost us with their wild, lame scripts. It became an adolescent-aimed series, and didn't hold our attention long.

Then Enterprise came along and we started watching out of curiosity. We liked it at first, and Jolene Blalock can grace my screen any day, but they went overboard with her coldness and bitchiness. I'd like to snap her character's neck. But what made us stop watching it was their total abandonment of the Star Trek ship technology and the abandonment of the timelines established in previous series'. They have a precursor to the NCC1701 that is far more advanced-looking, weapons they shouldn't even have yet, and a great number of other liberties they have taken which, by my accounts, has alienated more than a few die-hard Trek fans.

It's time to end Star Trek. No more series attempts.

It's also time to end Star Wars. While not as old as the Star Trek concept, it's been played out and can only go downhill. Enough already

[yoda313]

Hello,

KEEP STAR WARS GOING!!!!

END ENTERPRISE!!!!

GET NEW STAR TREK!!!!

Kevin

--My venting is done---

[northcat_8]

It's not that Star Wars and Star Trek were bad movies or programs, but give me a break...they are not alternate ways of life and the end all of the sci-fi world. LOTR is another one that some people...cough yoda cough...continue to live vicariously through and try to assimilate themselves with.

I believe it's called GFLYMRLB for short.

I saw LOTR, good movie...but speaking in the elvish tounge is a bit....um....<tact northcat tact>.......******* retarded.

Basically everything you see on the big screen is some bullshit story out of somebody's head that they wrote down and sold to a studio.

One of my favorite movies was Pulp Fiction...but me and a black friend down drive around in a 74 chevy nova with blood all over the place trying to live the movie in our everyday life.

[yoda313]

Hello,

Just because we love these movies doesn't mean we don't do other stuff.

And besides, "real" movies are fakes too. Most of the drama stuff never happens. When did you see a bunch of farmers stop working and burst out singing "OKLAHOMA"????

Kevin

[Reaper88]

northcat_8 is right. Some people take sci-fi to far. I like most star trek shows but I don’t like telling people that I do because the first thing they say to me is " So do you go to those conventions and dress up in their uniforms?"

Of course I don’t. I am not a freak. I just find the shows entertaining. Most people don’t realize there is a difference between sci-fi fan boys and sci-fi fans.

[Capmaster]

Hello,

Just because we love these movies doesn't mean we don't do other stuff.

And besides, "real" movies are fakes too. Most of the drama stuff never happens. When did you see a bunch of farmers stop working and burst out singing "OKLAHOMA"????

Kevin

Since when was Oklahoma a real movie?

It's a musical and as such should be destroyed.

[yoda313]

Hello,

Reaper88 - What's freakish about going to a convention???? I've gone to 2 Star Trek conventions but I don't have any costumes. It's just a fun hobby.

Kevin

[northcat_8]

For example:



Case in point....

I never said the SW or ST were not entertaining and might even be loved by many....but being a "trekkie" is only cool to other trekkies...everyone else just sees them as losers.

No movies are "real" movies. They are all fiction, just some are based on real life events. I'm pretty sure Jewels isn't wandering the earth...I saw him on a S.W.A.T. team not too long ago.

[gitreel]

I love the movies and the tng series.

But I draw the line there.

I do not dress up in costumes or attend the conventions.

I love star wars, but I do not pretend my car is the milennium falcon.

@yoda - usually the people that attend the conventions get made fun of.

Watch the movie trekkies or watch galaxy quest.

[yoda313]

Hello,

First of all its TREKKERS. Second of all, what about sports nuts??? You know the ones that wear face paint and dress up like idiots at football (American football) games??? There are people that do weird stuff all over the place. How about the car nuts??? The ones that clean their cars ten times a week??? It's just more acceptable than being a sci fi nut.

--Ok I'll drop it now, I think I made my point--

Kevin

[yoda313]

Hello,

Gitreel - Galaxy Quest is NOT REAL! Besides, the actors became heros.

Kevin

--Conventions are not dorky! They're just gathering places for fans of the shows. What about sports card conventions??? Hmm???--

[Reaper88]

Hello,

Reaper88 - What's freakish about going to a convention???? I've gone to 2 Star Trek conventions but I don't have any costumes. It's just a fun hobby.

Kevin

That’s fine as long as it doesn’t get taken too far. You got to admit that there are a lot of people who go to those that just take things way too far. People who will debate the proper way of building a warp engine or say things like, do you remember in episode #123 when so and so said this, well the contradicts what happened in episode # 24 when so and so said that. I mean come on it’s only a show.

[gitreel]

I love football but I do not wear face paint or dress weird and paint myself blue and white, just because I love the cowboys.

There is a difference between liking something and being a fan.

[Capmaster]

Hello,

First of all its TREKKERS.

No, it's not. Star Trek fans were called "Trekkies" long before anyone first uttered the word "Trekker".

[gitreel]

Hello,

Gitreel - Galaxy Quest is NOT REAL! Besides, the actors became heros.

Kevin

--Conventions are not dorky! They're just gathering places for fans of the shows. What about sports card conventions??? Hmm???--

I know galaxy quest was not real.

I was just showing you an illustration that people who goto those conventions usually get made fun of.

[CoasterCreator]

Warp engine????? ....Everyone knows that to time travel you need a flux capasitor

[yoda313]

Hello,

Ok - my last defense of myself.

I'm ok with who I am. So what if like a show a lot. I'm a good person who works and is nice to other people. What I do in my spare time is my own. I do other things than watch movies or read books.

Just because I'm passionate about something doesn't make my a nut. I don't know any foreign language besides a few years of highschool/college spanish. People can say what they want. Most people at a convention DON'T wear costumes. Before you make fun of something you don't know GO to one yourself.

EDIT - I DON'T have any COSTUMES or Makeup!!!! I don't pretend to drive the millenium falcon!!! I know what is real and what is not!!! --
Kevin

--No offense was taken or given. It's just this can become personal FRIENDS?????--