TMPGENC MPEG2 GENERATED FILES DO NOT OPEN WITH VEGAS/DVDA

[Cunhambebe]

Making some experiments with other encoders, made me decided to try TMPGENC PLUS which turned out to be also an excellent option to render as MPEG2 files. First you get the project and render it with Vegas as a big avi file. Later you open this file with TMPGENC PLUS to convert to MPEG2. Setting TMPGENC with the same options as the Mainconcept Plug-in that comes along with Vegas (DVD, VBR, etc.) makes higher quality MPEG files. That's true. However there's one thing I've noticed: at the end of the process, you have a file with an extension named as <MPV>. Simply renaming the extension as MPEG, lets the file be opened with Windows Media Player, which definitely cannot be done with Vegas, neither with DVDArchitect. I was just wondering WHY? I want to open the final MPEG2 file rendered with TMPGENC PLUS back in Vegas timeline to encode the sound as AC-3 and also openning the final result with DVDA to burn my projects. WHAT CAN I DO? AM I DOING ANYTHING WRONG? ANY HINTS? THANKS IN ADVANCE.

[Cunhambebe]

Help Please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BJ_M]

Vegas and/or DVDA requires a program stream , look in your manual ..

just mux the m2v stream in tmpgenc without audio ..

why not just frame serve from vegas to tmpgenc from vegas anyway ? save a lot of time ..


also -- why open the mpeg back in vegas anyway to do the sound ? just use the project you already have in there ....

you are doing a lot of extra steps needlessly ..

[Cunhambebe]

Sorry for being so ignorant but I am a newbie. I was just wondering how to mux m2v without audio and how to frame serve from vegas to tmpgenc from vegas to save time.

I tried render the avi with sound in tmpgenc as mpeg2 (includding audio) and the result for the audio wasn't good at all (distortions).

Help please!

[BJ_M]

use the mpegtools in tmpgenc and pick multiplex and enter m2v file and hit start ...

you frame serve out of vegas using the satish frame server for vegas ..


http://www.debugmode.com/

[Cunhambebe]

thanks for taking time to respond. I had totally forgotten Debugmode. By the way, I cannot open the m2v file back with those MPEG tools in TMPGENC. Can u help me please, step by step? 1. open the TMPGENC....setc.
Sorry, but I'm still learning. By the way, do u agree that TMPGENC encoder does a better job than the Mainconcept enocer taht comes with Vegas 4.0?

[BJ_M]

quality wise -- depends ..



file -> multiplex -> type "mpeg2" program -> add (your m2v file) -> run

[Cunhambebe]

One more thing:
I have installed Frameserver. Back in Vegas, I render the timeline as Frameserver, naming the file. how can I open this thing eith TMPGENC???? What a mess!

[Cunhambebe]

Multiplex thing with TMPGENC works perfectly. This way u have a perfect mpeg2 file and later u can encode audio back in vegas timeline as ac-3. Now, openning DVDA will let u drag both files to the project (I suppose that will work). Thanks.

Another way of trying to encode as MPEG2 is: openning TMPGENC, selecting VBR or CBR MPEG1 layer II audio (MP2). But the audio is terrible and there's a loss with video quality. I was just wonderig why.
Thanks.

[BJ_M]

load the avi into tmpgenc .. its very straight forward ..

0r just render it in vegas and be done with it -- the quality is just fine for most things

[Cunhambebe]

I can't open the timeline project in TMPGENC with the debugmode plug-in since some parts of the project are made of jpegs and other of avis. Do I have to encode the project as avi before openning the whole thing with tmpgenc? I'll tell ya something: I thought I new something about encoding, no I see I was mistaken.

[Cunhambebe]

Some more help is needed here, please. I've tested both compressors Mainconcept and TMPGENC. this last one seems to give better results, but when u encode as MPEG2, with audio file, the sopund is terrible. I'm planning to render a project in Vegas as AVi, later render again as MPEG2 with TMPGENC with no sound and back in Vegas timeline once more, render the soundtrack as AC-3. I guess that'll work, won't it?
Thanks in advance.
Once more thing: Debugnode seems not to be working properly. don't know how to handle it.

[BJ_M]

doesnt mater if the project is made out of bat ears and sheep dip ..

just render TO the plugin pac frame server , which writes a FAKE avi file (which you name) ...

load this FAKE avi file into tmpgenc .....



as i said before -- you might want to just render in vegas ... at least that way you may have the correct frame rate and field order and aspect ratio and resolution -- all of which you would have to set up before going the frame server route ..

the encoder in vegas is very good ...

[Cunhambebe]

Thanks again for the valuable help. I cannot open the fake avi file with the TMPGENC. I'll keep trying. If I can do it, that'll be terrific because I won't need to format as NTFS (I keep wprking with FAT32, what would make impossible to render a 10 minute avi file with no compression at all. By the way, since I work with FAT32, would that be the problem with debugmode?

[Cunhambebe]

There's one more thing I forgot to say: I agree with you on the the subject about the Vegas encoder. It's good. Very good. But as soon as you try to encode an MPEG2 file with a fake galaxy and some nebulae generated with the plug-in Genesis in Photoshop, you'll notice the difference between the TMPGENC encoder an the one that comes along with Vegas (mainconcept). Even trying to encode with mainconcept as a standalone applc, have show that the final result rendered within TMPGENC is definitely superior. The mpeg2 file rendered in TMPGENC looks definitely almost as the same as the original avi that contain the visual effect (a spaceship flying by those objects - nebulae, galaxys and lots of stars.

[Cunhambebe]

Wow, terrific!!! It works...Let me download now toolame, to work with TMPGENC (since its original audio codec is horrible - just found out that). Thanks again. - wait....I'll get back as soon as possible to tell ya the results. Thanks again, friend, for the valuable help! There's nothing better than talking to a Master

[Cunhambebe]

Everything works out properly, but there's one thing (as always in life...lol). The compressor doesn't know where and when to stop encoding as video stream. Even after the end of the would-be fake avi file generated by debugmode plug-in, TMPGENC continues encoding "the nothing". Since a 10 minute clip lasts more than 6 hours to be rendered with an Athlon 1.7, I guess that wouldn't be worth waiting for the end of the encoding to give it a "full stop". I was just wondering if the problem is with debugmode Plug-in or with TMPGENC or even if I can edit the file later with TMPGENC (what I didn't find out how to do it). Thanks in advance.

[MJPollard]

As a user of Vegas, DVD Architect, and TMPGEnc Plus, here's a few hints on getting DVDA-compliant audio and video files:

In TMPGEnc, set up everything as you normally would for creating a DVD-compliant MPEG2 file. Then, on the main screen, make sure that "Stream Type" is set to "System (video only)." This will create an MPEG2 file with an empty audio stream, which DVDA will load without complaint. (This is necessary because DVDA 1.0 does not work with elementary streams, i.e. M2V and MP2 files. Don't know if the upcoming DVDA 2.0 will support them, but it would be nice if it did.)

For the audio, I suggest using Vegas to create a separate AC3 file. Then, under DVDA's Preferences, General settings tab, enable the "Automatically link similar audio and video files" option. If the MPG and AC3 files are in the same directory with the same name, DVDA will automatically load both files when you drag the MPG file into the project.

(Note that my projects generally entail encoding a captured, edited, and ready-to-be-rendered AVI file. This allows me to easily use Vegas to create the AC3 audio file, and TMPGEnc to easily render an MPG file.)

[BJ_M]

Everything works out properly, but there's one thing (as always in life...lol). The compressor doesn't know where and when to stop encoding as video stream. Even after the end of the would-be fake avi file generated by debugmode plug-in, TMPGENC continues encoding "the nothing". Since a 10 minute clip lasts more than 6 hours to be rendered with an Athlon 1.7, I guess that wouldn't be worth waiting for the end of the encoding to give it a "full stop". I was just wondering if the problem is with debugmode Plug-in or with TMPGENC or even if I can edit the file later with TMPGENC (what I didn't find out how to do it). Thanks in advance.

set a region in your project and select render region only

[Cunhambebe]

Thanks to all who took time to respond. I'd like to thank MJ Pollard for the valuable help - I've done everything as you told me to do so...it works. And very special thanks to my friend, BJ_M. I've found out the problem with setting a region even before reading your repply, thanks, anyway.

NOW, THERE'S ONE MORE THING! OPENNING A FAKE AVI FILE TRU DEBUGMODE IN TMPGENC, WON'T LET YOU SET CONFIGURATION (AS U CAN NORMALLY DO WHEN OPENNING A REAL AVI FILE IN TMPGENC) WITH THE FOLLOWING GUIDES:

1.FILTERS>CLIP FRAME>NO MARGIN (KEEP ASPECT RATIO) this option makes the difference when u render a file with my effects created with photoshop (stars, galaxies and nebulae). "Not being able to configure this, makes the file blured as the one generated with Mainconcept";

2.NOISE REDUCTION.

If there's no way to fix this (specially with Clip Frame), I guess I'll have to format to NTFS (my system is FAT 32), rendering first as AVI with no compression at all, and then later, back in TMPGENC, render finally as MPEG2 (with no sound, which can be rendered later in Vegas as AC-3).

[BJ_M]

reading your last post makes me realize that you prob. rendered your photoshop files as square pixel and are rendering to video (non square pixel) -- doing this will make your video look blurred ...

make your photoshop files "video format" instead -- this in not 720x480 ..



also


just do noise reduction IN vegas or there is no reason you can't do it in tmpgenc if you need to ... works perfectly well (i just checked myself to make sure) ..

if you really also want to have some fun is to create a tmpgenc project file (and use vfapi) and bring that fake avi back into vegas or a new instance of vegas .. you can go back and forth this way with a number of apps (v-dub , vegas, avsynth, tmpgenc) .

note that tmpgenc w/ vfapi is doing a color format conversion though.


you do realize also that you can use most (well many) v-dub filters directly in vegas ? i.e for further noise reduction within vegas besides the built in ..

[BJ_M]

also (another also) -- if you do feel like rendering out of vegas to a real avi as an interm. render ..

use huffyuv or some other lossless codec instead .... you can even split the renders to less than 2 ggi each so you dont need ntfs (tmpgenc takes seq. avi files and renders them to 1 mpeg file)

[Cunhambebe]

Well thank you again, BJ_M. It's always great "hearing" from you. As you can see, a Master makes all the difference. Now it's a little bit late around here. I'll try to follow your directions tomorrow morning and later, post a reply back here. Thank you very much once more - merci beaucoup mon ami canadien

[Cunhambebe]

As always...some more questions:


1.you've said..."make your photoshop files "video format" instead -- this in not 720x480 .. " How can I do that? Saving the file as Targa? Don't know which way to go.
2."just do noise reduction IN vegas or there is no reason you can't do it in tmpgenc if you need to ... works perfectly well (i just checked myself to make sure) .. " Again, how can I do it?
3."-- if you do feel like rendering out of vegas to a real avi as an interm. render ..

use huffyuv or some other lossless codec instead .... you can even split the renders to less than 2 ggi each so you dont need ntfs (tmpgenc takes seq. avi files and renders them to 1 mpeg file)" And finally again, how can I do that? Do I only have to download and install the codec and render the whole project within vegas as......choosing the mentioned codec?

thanks in advance

[Cunhambebe]

? -? - ? - ?

[BJ_M]

sorry - decided to sleep this week some and kids were picking eggs out of the trees ..


1. latest version of photoshop has video settings, but here is an explanation:

Preparing Stills in PhotoShop for Import into a NLE such as Vegas or FCP

Photoshop and other bitmapped graphics applications use square pixels in the formation of images. NLE's and video in general (digital video formats DV, D1) use rectangular pixels use rectangular pixels (called 'non-square' pixels officially ) to display the image. When Photoshop files with their square pixels are imported into a NLE the pixels get converted to a rectangular shape. This conversion process will change the proportions of the art work. Your PS image will now be taller (stretched up). As we spend much time designing our art work (type) to look just right in PS we want it to look the same in our NLE as it does in PS.

In order to have our art work look the same in both applications a 'work around' is needed. We will adjust the image size in Photoshop to compensate for the conversion process.

In Photoshop > File menu > new file. In the 'new file' dialog box set your width to 720 pixels, set the height to 534 pixels, set dpi to 72 and 'Mode' (color space) to 'RGB'. In the 'contents' box, set the type of background ( white, background color or transparent) this choice will be discussed below as there are several options.

If you are working with an analog capture card, such as the Targa 1000 or 2000, you will have a slightly different original and final height and width. Do the very same thing as above but start out at 720 x 540.

Now create your artwork in this file. When finished save the file. From the Image menu > image size. In the 'image size' dialog box first UNCHECK the proportions box. Now change the height setting from 534 to 480 (Targacard users, should change it from 540 to 486) and click save. If you look at your image in PS you will see that the above process has squashed down your image making it look fatter. This is what we want as when this file is imported into Vegas and the pixels are converted the image will once again look correct. *Note; If you check the image in the Canvas window it will still look distorted but if you look at your NTSC monitor you will see that the image is now correct. The NTSC monitor is where it counts.

Setting your background in the 'new image' dialog box will depend on what you want your final results to be. If you want your art work to have a background, ie; a photo or other art you have created, then choose 'white' or 'colored' background. You can use layers if you like. When you are done, from the 'Layers' palette ( diamond upper right) choose 'Flatten Image'. This will collapse all your layers and merge them into the background.

If you want your image to have a transparent background then choose ' Transparent' from the 'new image' dialog box. You use this approach when you want to have titles ( art, logos, etc) that you can superimpose over video. Again, you can work in layers to adjust and move different elements in your art. When done, from the Layers palette choose 'Merge' layers. This will combine all layers into one but will still leave the transparent background. You might use this for a single title 'plate'. *Note, if you do use 'Flatten Image' PS will turn your transparent background into a white background and you will not be able to superimpose your image over video in FCP.


A few other tips:

Setting dpi higher than 72.

When opening your new image file in PS. If you plan to do a 'Pan and Scan', apply motion, enlarge or move around inside your image (a photograph for example) you will need a higher dpi count. A dpi setting of 300 works well.

'Title Safe' area in Photoshop.

When you are creating your titles or art work in your 720 x 534 file there is no way to know where your 'title safe' area is. You will need to leave a top and bottom border of 70 pixels each. On the left and right hand side of your image leave a border of 67 pixels each. To help facilitate this in PS; from the menu > Window > Show Rulers. The default setting for rulers in PS is inches so; menu > file > preferences > units. Set 'Ruler Units' to pixels. You can place your cursor inside your image and the rulers along the top and left hand side will show your position.

You can also (in vegas) import your 720 x 534 image directly into vegas and in vegas media properties for that image - select the correct aspect ratio and vegas will squash it for you ..

if you are doing any resizing in vegas- or motion blurs and such - render at best , you can also use supersampling if there are time changes and pans and such ..


2. you can use the median filter or blur filter as a noise removal tool .. or using the plugin pac or wax plug in -- you can use most any v-dub filter also .. the median filter in vegas works excellent -- both the blur and median require very small values (like .003 good place to start for blur) .


3. install the huffyuv codec and render to uncompressed -> custom -> pick huffyuv .. pick non type 2 avi files (bottom option)


vegas is a very powerfull NLE system used now for anything from broadcast to film -- while fairly easy to use , there are a LOT of features non the less and its a good idea to maybe get one of the extensive dvd training courses/tutorials for it ..

vegas 5 will be out in a week also ...

[Cunhambebe]

About the photoshop problem: I've just figured out how to open a file NTSC compatible - new file and just selecting ntsc.... On the other hand I cannot copy/paste the original file to this NTSC compatible one. I can just paste one small part of the whole thing - don't know why....

I've just installed that avi codec. I guess it works with TMPGENC and not with Vegas, doesn't it? This way, I think I open the project on Vegas timeline, render as debugmode, open the whole stuff in TMPGENC and there I render as AVI with the codec you mentioned. Is that right? I really need some more help. By the way...Happy Easter everybody!

[BJ_M]

no -- EITHER render as a frame server method with vegas to tmpgenc OR render with huffyuv with vegas and then feed that to tmpgenc ..


it really seems as if you should just render with the mainconcept encoder in vegas -- and sort out why it appears blurred (it shouldn't) .

[Cunhambebe]

Thanks you very much for taking time to respond. Well, the photoshop tut is dificult isn't it?

- I was just wondering how to paste the old image on this new ntsc compatible and newly generated file. As I said....I can only paste a small portion of the oiginal jpeg file.

- I know this may be silly but I don't know how to install the avi codec within Vegas (do I have to install the source code or the other file? I unzipped (both) to an unzipped folder. This way it opens with TMPGENC (don't know if this feature was already available within TMPGENC before installing the codec). Guess, I'd need some help on how to install it within Vegas.....

Thanks again............(you'd better take a plane to get here as soon as possible...

[BJ_M]

are you talking about the huffyuv codec and how to install it ?

that avicodec is something else ....

avi TYPE OF codec vs. avicodec

once you install huffyuv codec (just right click on the inf file and select install) - its useable in most any app ...



my fee is $750-$1000 per day plus expenses btw