Question: Are Dual-Processor Systems better than single?

[VideoTechMan]

Hey everyone,

Ive been doing a little research here and there and was reading about some people using dual-processor based systems to do their video editing on. My question is...are dual-processor systems better than single processor based systems? And are AMD processors better than Intel-based? I have always went with Intel because I am a bit picky on name brands and whether they are reliable. I would like to know the pros and cons on this, and where to go to get more info on it. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks!

VideoTechMan

[MOVIEGEEK]

Dual processors were ideal for multi-tasking back in the PIII days but a fast(>2Ghz)will beat any dual processor system especially if your encoding.
Not to start a flamewar but the main differance between a AMD and Intel CPU is price but for multimedia it's hard to beat a P4 due to SSE2.
More CPU info:
www.tomshardware.com
www.anandtech.com

[i-on-s]

Yea i use to have a dual 1.5ghz AMD t-bird system for encoding and video editing and thought it was great it did what i needed it too but ever since i sold it and bought my new system encoding and video editing is so much faster.

[rallynavvie]

I switched from a single processor to duals since the single wasn't cutting it and I happened upon a great deal on a partially-built dual-CPU system. I had a 1.6 P4 and now have dual 1900+ MPs. After testing both using TMPGEnc on the same video doing the same encoding the new system does encode at slightly better than twice the speed (a little more so when using 2-pass VBR for some reason). However a 3.0 or better P4 should do close to the same, though I don't know the cost of the latest P4s.

Being new to dual-processor PCs (I've had a dual 800MHz G4 for almost 2 years now) I've made a few observations. For all practical purposes a dual CPU is as fast as a single CPU of the speed of one of your processors, thus mine is as fast as an Athlon XP 1900 in any programs that don't support multi-threading, however the advantage I've noticed is that each CPU runs at ~50% load so they don't generate as much heat for the processing power of the single. Thus if you plan to game with the dual CPU machine you won't notice much of a performance increase over the single processor (though I heard Unreal 2 supports multi-processors?). One disadvantage is that dual-CPU systems are also pretty finicky, though it may just be the system board that's finicky. I think for server apps the 2 processors are nice for redundancy, though expensive for those of us in the prosumer market (I don't want to rely on one CPU picking up the slack if the other one melts).

And from my UNBIASED opinion regarding the differences between Intel and AMD (unbiased as in the G4 is still a superior processor): P4s are safer where Athlons just keep chugging. P4s will down-clock the processor if it starts getting overheated to keep the processor from destroying itself. This is a fantastic failsafe feature of the Intel, however on my old P4 I noticed a marked slowdown in encoding when doing hours on end because the heatsinks and fans weren't doing their job well enough. Utilizing a good cooling system will keep this from happening. On the other hand AMDs don't slow down for anything and will fry if the heatsink is removed for even a second. So if you don't trust your cooling than Intel is the safest bet, but if you trust your cooling and want that little extra edge in processing power then go AMD (I think it stands for Advanced Melting Designs?). Check out that link above for Tom's Hardware, it's a fantastic site. It also has the vid of what happens when you remove the heatsink from a Pentium and an Athlon

I'm not even going to consider overclocking AMDs, that seems like dancing on a landmine to me. A pair of 2400+ MPs may be in my future though

[Treebeard]

Here is an intersting article in comparing the P4 3.06 to the Dual Xeon 2.8.

http://www.motherboards.org/articlesd/hardware-reviews/1221_1.html

[fingernailX]

One note to keep in mind re: dual cpu machines is that some capture programs and capture card drivers require the driver for the computer under Device Manger in 2k and XP to be "Std computer" not "dual mips" or "dual acpi." Of course w/o that driver you don't get dual processing so what's the point. I created a dual boot settup on my dual xeon machine so I could capture in std and then reencode with both cpus. Never had the problem with dv capture, just my Sigma Designs DVR and two BT/Conextant based cards.

[Piccoro]

1) same clock, dual cpus win. of course the task may show little or no improvement with some things(gaming) because they dont support dual cpus while others show huge difference(rendering,encoding).
2)If you take the heatsink off a cpu, you are dumb. Your system will not underclock if it just runs hot. CPUs can go as high as 60C (50C is hot enough) and if your system does underclock, the temp must be high enough that you might as well have taken off the heatsink. The feature is ment for if your cpu fan stops rather than just a hot system and the temp. setting that trigers this is set high...real high. AMD does have a system in place to shutdown the cpu when it gets to that point also. At one time they didnt and this is where a lot of video/articles about this came from. Intel 3.0ghz gives off 74watts on avg AMD barton core gives off 69watts maxium so using the same heatsink and fan your AMD will run cooler.
3)If you have just enough money for a intel 3.0ghz but your really thinking about a dual system. 2 AMD 2600+MPs may suit you better if you are dedicated to multicpu supported applications and a 3.0ghzIntel w/HT costs just a little bit more than 2 AMD 2600+MPs. Otherwise go with Intels 3.0ghz since you may not multitask or use supported programs. Windows XP pro/2000 support Multi processors.
4)Intels cpus in general are better for video/multimedia encoding and some rendering since it uses SSE2. AMD cpus are better for buisness, some gaming, and CAD work/rendering. As of April 22nd AMD will also have a cpu out using SSE2, and in Q3 for the desktop market.

[WeedVender]

A SMP computer is a computer with 2 or more CPU..

An SMP computer running at 2 ghz each wont be 4 ghz. Also SMP does have an advangtage. When COMPARING cpu. they have to be in the same clock rate. not 1.2 ghz appart. SMP is better than the HT technology from the P4 3.06 ghz. or 3.89 ghz for us overclockers and performs things faster at the same clock rate when comparing other CPUs..

If you want a SMP machine, get an SMP motherboard and

Intel Xeons or some AMD Athlon MPs

[sterno]

Thus if you plan to game with the dual CPU machine you won't notice much of a performance increase over the single processor (though I heard Unreal 2 supports multi-processors?).

Not sure about Unreal 2, but Quake 3 supports multiple processors. However, there is almost nothing that can be distributed across more than one CPU in your average shooter game. In general the only real benefit is that the OS and background tasks can run on a different CPU than the game, so they don't slow it down as much.

I think for server apps the 2 processors are nice for redundancy, though expensive for those of us in the prosumer market (I don't want to rely on one CPU picking up the slack if the other one melts).

A standard dual-processor machine provides no redundancy. Processors aren't like power supplies, you can't just switch them in and out at the drop of a hat. If one processor fails the machine won't just run on the other, it will crash. Expensive high-availability hardware does support this, some of those systems allow you to hot-swap nearly every piece of hardware in the machine.

[rallynavvie]

Thus why I said the redundancy is nice in server applications where the system boards are of better make. I can run my board on one processor by removing the other, but if a heatsink failed completely and fried one CPU I'd be out more than just the CPU, more like both processors, the motherboard, probably some other system components, etc.

Curious though, does Asetek make a VapoChill system for dual-processor systems? If I ever do go into the overclocking world I don't think I'll start small.

[sterno]

Virtually all servers use standard multiprocessor boards where one CPU failing will kill the machine. The high-availability systems are so expensive that most places that need systems up 24/7 find it's cheaper to buy several conventional servers and set them up in a cluster with failover. They're really only used in a few critical areas like some financial systems, telephone switching, etc. - things where downtime has to be measured in minutes per year.

[daesdaemar]

The main advantage of my dual Athlon MP 2100 box is that I can encode while doing several other things at the same time, like using Windows Media Player, Backing Up, surfing the web, or even very intensive tasks like working in Photoshop. All this, while still crunching SETI and Mersenne Primes. No single CPU system will let you get away with that.

[tim6661234]

Your correct.
Since I built my Dual Athlon XP 2000+ system (YES XP!) multi-tasking is so much better.
I encode using TMPEnc and this can be setup to use both CPU's. The only problem is that software like Instant Copy doesn't multi-thread but at least I can do something else while I wait.

[WeedVender]

I recently bought 2 AMD Opterons (sp*) and hooked them up to a board.

This thing is FAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSTTTTTTTTTT in colaberation with running w/ a copy of Win2k3 from work... although the security features are a pain... I am happy with the speed of this system. Too bad its at work though. I did run Tmpgenc and was amazed on how long it took to create an mpg. I took 30 min for a 1:30 movie. much less if I brough my copy of CCE..

[The village idiot]

In my experience, SMP is good. In the past it is all I would build. Now just waiting for standard P4's to be able to use SMP, don't like the price of the XEON's.

[freak_in_cage_10k]

i think this is the basics on the topic:

dual processors are very useful for multiple tasking, but only if you want to use to very intensive programs (eg encode a DVD and also edit sum video) i can encode a dvd and losten to music and surf the web at the same time no probs with my 2200+, all i need to do isset CCE to low cpu priority, that way the music doesn;t jump or anything! obiously it slows down but not by a HUGE amount! so, unless you are a very serious user of programs which support mulitple processors dont bother.

with regards to the pros and cons of single processors (amd vs intel) here are the basics: (both r v good)

amds run hotter, but thats nothing a good heatsink & fan wont cure! and you dont need a loud fan either, my fan is about 22db (v quiet) and only 15CFM (cubic feet per min) but i have a copper heatsink which makes up for this! if the amd HS fan does stop spinning then it will fry the cpu, the intel wont, but the chances or this happening are negligible!

[price wise they are about the same for the very fastest processors (eg 3000+ AMD and 3.06GHz P4) but for the slighlty slower processors AMD are much cheaper! a 2400+ with draw with a 2.4GHz P4, a 2.8GHz p4 will draw with a 2800+ AMD! also, amd motherboards are cheaper (and just as good!)

tim6661234- m8 how did you build a dual system with xp processors?did you mod them so they were converted to mp?

[rallynavvie]

Aren't Opterons the new 64-bit CPUs? I heard they had crap for backwards compatability to 32-bit applications. Did TMPGEnc run OK with them?

[tim6661234]

tim6661234- m8 how did you build a dual system with xp processors?did you mod them so they were converted to mp?

Its fairly simple to convert an XP to an MP. I followed the instructions on the following site.

http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles/articles.hwz?cid=2&aid=393

This enabled me to use all the components in my old system except the motherboard. I already had a XP2000+ so I bought another one and a Tigar MPX motherboard. Works a treat although I added a couple of system fans to keep it all cool. It'll encode DVD MPEG at real time for constant bit rates.

Just remember if you do this you invalidate your warranty. I think AMD have missed out by having two versions. More people would upgrade to have 2 processors if they can use their current CPU.

[WeedVender]

Aren't Opterons the new 64-bit CPUs? I heard they had crap for backwards compatability to 32-bit applications. Did TMPGEnc run OK with them?

NO!

Intel Itanium is CRAP when going with backwards compatibily not the Opteron..

The Opteron works with almost most of my applications that I can take to work...
The only problem is that I use the office copy of Windows 2003 and that isnt compatible with alot of things. Remember for security reasons, MS decided to not include much backwards compatibility.

[rallynavvie]

Oh yeah, Windoze has crap for backwards compatability. That's why I have to dual boot Win98 and XP

[WeedVender]

You should see my multibooting system....
I did a thread and all i have to do now is install Windows Longhorn Beta

[freak_in_cage_10k]

tim6661234- yeah dude, i knew how to do it, jus wondered if you had done it!

if you are into hardware modding, why not buy two of the highly overclcokable 1700+, convert them to mp and run them at 2GHz eah? that means serious encoding speed!

you mensioned that you encode at the speed of real time for dvd to mpeg at CBR! i encode at 1.5 times the speed of real time with my 2200+ when converting dvd2svcd with vbr. you shuld be getting faster than that dude

[mrtristan]

Just a note concerning AMD's temperatures. I live in Hawaii and my chips can get pretty hot. They run at about 60ºC when I encode and I've run them for 24+ hours many times. The official limit to the operating temperature is listed on AMD's site and it's above 70ºC. I don't remember the exact number. I don't lose any stability at 60ºC, so I've gotten used to them running that hot.

Should they break down, AMD's replacement policy is great. I actually made friends with the customer rep that I talked to. Pretty odd, considering I'm not much of a talker. (The chip that I had replaced was my fault. It had nothing to do with heating/cooling.)

[tim6661234]

tim6661234- yeah dude, i knew how to do it, jus wondered if you had done it!

if you are into hardware modding, why not buy two of the highly overclcokable 1700+, convert them to mp and run them at 2GHz eah? that means serious encoding speed!

you mensioned that you encode at the speed of real time for dvd to mpeg at CBR! i encode at 1.5 times the speed of real time with my 2200+ when converting dvd2svcd with vbr. you shuld be getting faster than that dude

The real time processing is for avi to DVD (MPEG), I haven't done any (S)VCDs since I got my DVD writer.

Haven't done the overclocking mods yet as I wanted to run the system for a while to check stability. Who needs more than 2x2000+ Well I have been checking the price of the XP2400+ as a replacement. The M/B says I can run 2 chips at different speeds although load balancing will be effected!

Just a shame the newer XP's have a 333 fsb and wont work on the board cos MP's are upto 2800+ now but they cost a fortune compared to the XP.

I may check up on overclocking them but I'm not sure what they will withstand. Well I don't have any warranty so what the hell.

MP for FREE

[freak_in_cage_10k]

tim6661234- man, as u said, u have already knackered the warrenty! are you in the uk or us?

i would suggest buying 2 1700+ (make sure its the correct serial number! you pay a little bit extra but sum ppl have clocked them up to 2.4GHz (NOT 2400+, 2.4GHZ!!!!) you coukld clock them to 2.1GHz or so and run them at a low voltage to keep them cool!!!! buy them here:

www.newegg.com
www.cpucity.co.uk

they are around £50 each man

[tim6661234]

I'm in the UK.
The Tiger MPX M/B does not support any overclocking. Its designed for stability, which it is. My only options it to buy 1 or 2 faster processors XP2400+ (some XP2600+ have fsb of 266 but never seen one) or go for the MP upto 2800+ (when the price decreases)

Its fast enough at the moment but you always want more don't you

[freak_in_cage_10k]

yeah dude, personally i am happy overclocking my 2500+ barton to 2.25ghz (supposed 2 b 1.8) at stock voltages and gettign FAST encodes! its as fast as the 3000+! i have leant it to my friend at the moment though who has better cooling, he is on 2.6ghz so far i think on just air! now that is FAST!!!! approx 3500+ processor!!!

[rallynavvie]

I just picked up 2 MP 2800+ for my new computer, but I'm having trouble deciding on a board for them. I have a Tiger MP for my current machine and I like how stable it is and how well it performs, but I'm looking for a board with more built-in features. I'd like it to have built-in network adapter, on-board USB 2.0 and FireWire support, have at least 2 64-bit PCI slots and at least 3 32-bit slots, and if possible onboard SCSI RAID or at least a SCSI controller. So I guess I'm looking for a server board to use in a workstation. Anyone suggest the other Tyan dual MP boards (I think they're the Trinity series)? Any other good boards out there with lots of features built in?

[sterno]

Tyan's Thunder series usually has a lot of components on-board and more slots than the others, but they tend to be very expensive. As I recall, the first production dual-AMD motherboard was a Tyan Thunder with lots of slots, dual on-board ethernet, on-board U160 SCSI, etc. - and it cost around $600. I'm not sure if any of their current boards include on-board firewire or RAID, though. The high-end workstation and server market they're aimed at aren't likely to use firewire and usually put the RAID in a dedicated external device.

That said, I haven't used their dual-AMD products. I once built a server around one of their dual-Intel Thunder boards, it was rock-solid (which is why I went with Tyan in the first place). The on-board components were of very high quality (genuine Creative Labs SB16, Adaptec 3940U2W, Intel EtherExpress Pro 100), as opposed to the garbage that most boards have.

[rallynavvie]

I think I was looking at a K7X Pro with onboard SCSI, but it wasn't SCSI RAID. Not that big of a deal since the 15k rpm SCSI drives I have are probably quick enough. I think most people are using SCSI RAID for redundancy anyway. Cost for that board was only $350 from a local hardware distributor so that's not so bad for something with onboard SCSI. I don't prefer onboard sound or video since a good card is usually better for outputs and inputs than onboard sound. My curiousity is getting the best of me about these Opteron platforms. Being that the Opteron is 64-bit how does the 242 compare to an MP 2800+? And would an Opteron even make a good workstation?