Indoor Antenna recommendation

[Minni]

Hi! I'd appreciate guidance.

I've been doing research, but remain unresolved. I'm seeking the best buy on an indoor antenna for my situation. (Emphasis on indoor, not outdoor).
My most local stores are Walmart and RadioShack.

I have a 19" Emerson HDTV.
See this Emerson TV: http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=6526881

I recently bought the RCA ANT111 basic indoor rabbit-ear antenna to see if that could work for me.
See my rabbit ears: http://www.amazon.com/tag/ant111/glance/A108XABRHAA9E7

But despite extending/rotating the dipoles and the UHF-loop, all I could pick up was channel 2 (maybe because I didn't figure out how to program the TV channels yet?) but anyway, the picture was filled with fuzzy specks. It was worse once I turned on the attached GigaWorks T20 PC-speakers. (with the speakers turned on, the picture was less colorful, less saturated, and less defined.)

Years ago I used to have a Zenith black-and-white 13" analog TV with one antenna rod that swivelled, and the picture was always very clear. Maybe because at that time there had been much fewer tall buildings in my area? Not to mention cellphones.

According to AntennaWeb, here's my statistics (Note that I chose the option which reflects that there are tall buildings around my locale, but also note that I'm on a street that's a hill, and I live practically at the top of the hill.

* yellow
uhf WNYW-DT 5.1 FOX NEW YORK, NY 183° 25.6 44
* yellow
vhf WABC-DT 7.1 ABC NEW YORK, NY Feb 17, 2009 (post-transition) 187° 27.8 7
* yellow
vhf WNET-DT 13.1 PBS NEWARK, NJ Feb 17, 2009 (post-transition) 187° 27.8 13
* yellow
vhf WPIX-DT 11.1 CW NEW YORK, NY Feb 17, 2009 (post-transition) 187° 27.8 11
* green
uhf WCBS-DT 2.1 CBS NEW YORK, NY 183° 25.6 56
* green
uhf WABC-DT 7.1 ABC NEW YORK, NY 183° 25.0 45

[redwudz]

I'm a bit confused about one thing.

...the picture was filled with fuzzy specks.

That doesn't sound like a digital signal. On mine, there's either a picture or a blank screen. No dots or noise.

Generic rabbit ears work about as well as many of the overpriced name brand indoor antennas. You seem to be in a weak signal area. Is there any way you can use a exterior or even a attic antenna? If you do decide to try one on the indoor ones, I would do it on the condition that you can return it if it doesn't work for you. You might get lucky, but will more likely be disappointed.

This one from WalMart doesn't look too bad. At least you could put it outside on a window sill if needed. http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5000836

I use a large flat antenna with a amplifier stuck in a back room for my HDTV reception. It's about 1 meter square.

[Minni]

What about the Philips amplified silver sensor, or the Zenith Silver Sensor? Or any others with good reviews?

Update: Today, after having scanned the channels with Emerson tech-support, I'm seeming to pick up channels 7 thru 13 (all with fuzzy/staticky pics that are very hard on the eyes even if viewable) but when I go down below channel 7, it doesn't state 5, 4, 2, but rather odd numbers & other stuff. Also it's picking up odd channels I never heard of, even though I don't have cable.

Note:

• the remote-control arrived defective from Ebay, so I was using the side panel for programming.
• Also note that when I turned on the volume of the PC-speakers I attached, the pic became much less colorful, and less well defined.

As for what you asked, I'll explain further. I'm in a crazy situation, living alone & very weak (nearly middle-aged with fibromyalgia etc. etc.

If I could somehow get the moldy impossible-to-budge garage door open to get the moldy ladder out, then drag it up the stairs and clamber up to the trapdoor, would I then have to go into the attic, or just put down the thingie in the attic & then climb back down? Because unless I step on the actual joists, I'd crash thru the sheetrock floor of the attic. That's how the attic was built - so I'm terrified, since I'm alone.

I don't understand why the old b/w Zenith used to work for me fine in the '80s. Why should there be such a poorer reception nowadays?

I don't think I'd be capable of connecting that indoor-outdoor antenna you cited. I just barely even figured out how to connect the Coaxial to the Emerson. Apparently I hadn't realized that I needed to apply more pressure than I actually did.

The plot thickens.

Today, I'd phoned Emerson tech-support, whereupon I proceeded to run the channel-scanner via side-panel (since the remote-control, despite the N.I.B. ad on Ebay, arrived defective.)

I also noted to the tech-girl that the text on the language-caption had BOXES interspersed (instead of letters).

The girl responded that according to the manual, those BOXES either mean I have tall buildings in my vicinity, or else some other reason, which I forget.

To get to the point:
After awhile I started smelling SMOKE.

See, I had originally thought it was a chemical smell emitting from the TV, so since I'm chemical sensitive, I had smeared on peppermint oil at the vents in the hope of camouflaging that smell. But today, because the TV had warmed up for a longer period of time, I came to realize the odor was smoke, and not just chemicals. Emerson won't replace it, even though it was new, since it was off Ebay. The seller will refuse to take it back, since he thinks I'm nuts for smearing on the peppermint oil to disguise the smell. Nobody understands the situation of chemical sensitives.

So now I may be stuck with a TV that's a fire hazard not to mention health hazard if inhaled. I don't know what to do. In case you're wondering, the main reason I bought it via Ebay was because I thought it would make more sense, since I don't have a car, and a TV is relatively large, so I thought I'd be better off paying $225 (including shipping) for something NIB off Ebay DELIVERED TO THE DOOR than $250 plus tax, plus taxi, from Walmart.

You can't imagine how depressed I am, because I also worked hard to find a OneForAll remote on Ebay, as well as RCA antenna & Sony DVD player. I have yet to test the latter, the remote didn't arrive yet, and I'm in such a whirl I don't know what to attend to first.

[edDV]

Run your address through this site to get a list of channels available to you, their distance and direction. Then you'll know the type of antenna needed and the direction you need to point it. Let us know how far you are from the transmitters.

http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/Address.aspx

Channels 7-13 rarely carry ATSC digital video currently. These are probably analog NTSC channels. Those are the ones that will be turned off Feb 17, 2009.

The "odd numbers & other stuff" channels are probably the digital subchannels.

[Minni]

I ran antennaweb - see my O.P. listing.

What are you saying - that I wouldn't pick up 7-13 in Feb.2009?
Not even with, say, a Philip amplified silver sensor (or Zenith)?
What about 2, 4, 5?

Is there no hope for my situation? What do others do when outdoor or attic is not easily feasible? Are they left "indoor" in the cold?

[edDV]

I ran antennaweb - see my O.P. listing.

What are you saying - that I wouldn't pick up 7-13 in Feb.2009?
Not even with, say, a Philip amplified silver sensor (or Zenith)?
What about 2, 4, 5?

Is there no hope for my situation? What do others do when outdoor or attic is not easily feasible? Are they left "indoor" in the cold?

All of those VHS stations are going dark Feb 17, 2009. Ch 2,4,5,7-13
All will be available as ATSC digital and are now but maybe not at full power currently.

What did antennaweb say about distance to your digital stations?

[edDV]

OK you posted up there.

Looks like you are ~25miles out. NYC should have most digital stations at high power.

Are you facing NYC (185 degrees) from a deck or window? You will need to be pointing that direction when you scan. If you can see the Empire State building on a clear day that should be your target. 25miles normally needs a medium size antenna unless you are on a hill. Yellow-Green is the code you use when buying an antenna.

Yellow ratings
http://www.hdtvantennalabs.com/hdtv-antenna-yellow.php

Green ratings
http://www.hdtvantennalabs.com/hdtv-antenna-green.php

[Minni]

Are you facing NYC (185 degrees) from a deck or window?

What do you mean by 185 degrees? I'm in a 50's house with crumbling patio & 50's wooden windows
The bedroom the TV will be in - is at the absolute-opposite corner from the room which "faces" NYC. The room "closest" to NYC is the kitchen; but I need it in the bedroom at the opposite end.

You will need to be pointing that direction when you scan.

I assume you mean I point the remote-control toward the direction of midtown NYC during scanning the stations with the remote? Does it matter if several rooms of my house are in between the remote-control and the edge of the house closest to NYC?

If you can see the Empire State building on a clear day that should be your target.

No, the Empire State is not at all visible

25miles normally needs a medium size antenna unless you are on a hill. Yellow-Green is the code you use when buying an antenna.

but most of those are outdoor antenna's. What a letdown. When people place indoor antennas in the attic, do they connect it to something? Because after all, the coax cable is attached to the RCA ANT111. I assume the TV gets connected to something as well, even if the indoor-antenna is in the attic? Can a tech dummy know how to do all this?

[edDV]

Yes the antenna needs to be pointed at NYC and yes you need to run a cable from the antenna to all the TV sets.

The Attic might work depending on the metal vs. wood up there.


http://images.google.com/images?gbv=2&hl=en&q=TV+antenna+attic
http://www.tvantenna.com/products/tvreception/tvantennas/winegard/hdplatinum.html

Looks like your channels after Feb 17, 2009 will include VHF abc7 and cw11 plus UHF 24, 28, 31, 33, 44 So you will need a VHF and UHF capable antenna.

[Minni]

Thanks! I have no idea how to go about doing anything in the attic.

BTW, my cheap ANT111 has VHF dipoles & UHF loop!

Does it make a difference if the antenna/and/scanning-process is pointed toward NYC, despite several rooms of the house being in between?

[edDV]

Thanks! I have no idea how to go about doing anything in the attic.

BTW, my cheap ANT111 has VHF dipoles & UHF loop!

Does it make a difference if the antenna/and/scanning-process is pointed toward NYC, despite several rooms of the house being in between?

NYC is where the signal comes from. You need a larger antenna when 25 miles out.
Experiment or hire somebody to mount an attick or outdoor antenna or just buy cable.

A quality antenna installation is a one time expense. Cable will cost nearly as much each month.

[Minni]

OK, I'll consider it, thank you.
Do you know where I can find a chemical-free TV (not sure if EDTV or HDTV) - at an affordable-for-me price? For me, something gently-used is sometimes better than new, depending on its condition, due to having been outgassed already.

I just experienced a nightmare buying the SLC195EM8 Emerson HDTV via Ebay. (see my above post: https://forum.videohelp.com/topic346808.html#1818763)

I've now lost $225, plus no TV due to smoke hazard. Forget the seller, Ebay or PayPal. It's not worth negative feedback, even if there was a chem-smell from day one, and even if PayPal decides in my favor. After all, who gives a d-- about the plight of chemical-sensitives?

FYI, see re: toxics in electronics:
http://www.etoxics.org/site/PageServer?pagename=svtc_toxics_in_electronics

Also, here's an excerpt from the MCS-Global site, though I think her case may be worse than mine:
http://www.mcs-global.org/Stories/karens_Story.htm

Got a computer and that made my tongue and teeth and gums hurt so bad that I had to set it near and open window so it could outgas. I was reacting to the chemicals that were used in the computer. My furniture was making me sick, couldn't sit in it. Every time I would try I would get extremely nauseous and dizzy. I had just bought a new entertainment center and after calling the manufacturers , I found out that too contained Formaldehyde. Out of total desperation I covered the whole thing in aluminum foil to keep the fumes away from me. There seemed to be no escape from all these chemicals. THEY WERE EVERYWHERE.
In the meantime I have had numerous visits to to the specialists. Everyone tries but there is not a lot they seem to be able to do.
I LIVE A LIFE that is not mine!!

[edDV]

All irrelevant to getting TV signals from New York.

[Billf2099]

I recommend the following antenna. Philips Mant 510. Its amplified, I was even able to pick up Channel 2 in chicago with the VHS dipole, and practically no one can do that. After the change over in 2009 the Channel 2 signal is moving to a UHF digital wavelength. Whatever antenna you use you need to use the best possible shielded Coax cable to attach it to your TV. When i used regular coax, no good signals, when I switched to the RG6. Bam! All of the stations come in.

The philips mant has multiple levels of amplification, dial in what you need.
the center part swings, I do have to adjust it for a couple of the chicago stations. One of those wacky things you need to do to get OTA DTV these days. When the stations go to full power I suspect things will get a lot easier.

[edDV]

I recommend the following antenna. Philips Mant 510. Its amplified, I was even able to pick up Channel 2 in chicago with the VHS dipole, and practically no one can do that. After the change over in 2009 the Channel 2 signal is moving to a UHF digital wavelength. Whatever antenna you use you need to use the best possible shielded Coax cable to attach it to your TV. When i used regular coax, no good signals, when I switched to the RG6. Bam! All of the stations come in.

The philips mant has multiple levels of amplification, dial in what you need.
the center part swings, I do have to adjust it for a couple of the chicago stations. One of those wacky things you need to do to get OTA DTV these days. When the stations go to full power I suspect things will get a lot easier.

Amplification works best for directional antennas when you are out at distance. If you are close in or around high rise structures, amplified omni directional antennas will just amplify multipath bounces and result in fewer reliable channels and different results from each scan.

[Minni]

oops... this post was composed simultaneous to edDV - but he beat me to it.

I recommend the following antenna.

Hi
Is your situation is similar to mine? (i.e. between 25-30 miles to NYC stations with many tall buildings in between. Even if I'm near the top of a hill, I'm in a ranch style house just a few steps above ground.

Reviewers seem to give conflicting reviews of the Mant-510. See:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Philips+Mant+510+site%3Awww.amazon.com

Have you seen the following review where he claims that with 2 rabbit ears for $28 plus adapters, he doesn't need to pay for cable? Is this for real?
http://www.amazon.com/review/R16I86H14BIRZN

All irrelevant to getting TV signals from New York.

Uh, is it worth the time to post my chem-free Q on any other videohelp forum? Or is MCS outside everyone's parameters? (In a nutshell, is discrimination illegal except vis-a-vis MCS...

[Minni]

deleted this post

[MOVIEGEEK]

Uh, is it worth the time to post my chem-free Q on any other videohelp forum? Or is MCS outside everyone's parameters? (In a nutshell, is discrimination illegal except vis-a-vis MCS...

Huh?

Go to Radio Shack(or visit online),their amplified indoor antennas are highly rated.
As was mentioned if you have an older tv you will also need a digital converter box: https://www.dtv2009.gov/
BTW:all tv's made after 7/07 have a built-in digital tuner(ATSC).

[edDV]

Indoor amplified antennas a unlikely to work at that distance. NYC is a bad case because tranmitters are on lower buildings since the World Trade Center came down. Most cities place transmitters on a mountain. NYC lacks a mountain so your antenna needs to go higher. UHF is line of sight.

You can go about this with VooDoo or you can get a proper antenna installed.

If you need to go to Radio Shack, someting like this installed in the attic or on a pole is what you need. For something smaller look for an antenna that covers upper VHF (7-13) and UHF only. Then tune the digital channels for CBS2/NBC4 which are UHF. The largest antenna elements are there for lower VHF (Ch2-6).
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2466764&cp=2032057.2032187.20321...entPage=family

This one would be better (rated 20-40 miles)
http://www.tvantenna.com/products/tvreception/tvantennas/winegard/CA-7084.html

[vhelp]

@ Minni

Here is my antenna rig and setup..

** Antenna: Radio Shack brand, VU-75XR VHS/UHF/FM
** The pie chart states, GREEN and 50/75 mile range
** most channel distance from me are 41 miles or less
** I have this antenna in my bedroom, pointed toward Connecticut

Now, I don't get any channels from NYC. Since the main antenna's came down with the
twin towers, I"ve not been able to get *any* of the channels. Not even my antenna listed
above.

However, since you might be closer, you might be able to get the Connecticut stations. You
only have to re-orient your antenna to point to the Connecticut.

The channels I am still getting from there are:

** WTNH-HD (ABC)
** WVTH-HD (NBC)
** and a few others

But you may be able to get more.

-vhelp 4552

[edDV]

@ Minni

Here is my antenna rig and setup..

** Antenna: Radio Shack brand, VU-75XR VHS/UHF/FM
** The pie chart states, GREEN and 50/75 mile range
** most channel distance from me are 41 miles or less
** I have this antenna in my bedroom, pointed toward Connecticut

Now, I don't get any channels from NYC. Since the main antenna's came down with the
twin towers, I"ve not been able to get *any* of the channels. Not even my antenna listed
above.

However, since you might be closer, you might be able to get the Connecticut stations. You
only have to re-orient your antenna to point to the Connecticut.

The channels I am still getting from there are:

** WTNH-HD (ABC)
** WVTH-HD (NBC)
** and a few others

But you may be able to get more.

-vhelp 4552

Antennaweb is pretty accurate down to the house number. It factors hills and other obstacles, transmitter power, transmitter location and transmitting antenna height.

Minni didn't report any CT stations on the antennaweb list.

This site has good test comparison info for antennas including indoor models.
3dBi difference means double signal strength.
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html

Indoor antennas - In good-signal areas, small low-gain antennas may work fine. Indoor antennas nearly always work up to 10 miles from the transmitter. They often work up to 20 miles for people who live on hillcrests, and sometimes 30 miles if the transmitting tower is visible. But if http://www.antennaweb.org says you are not a candidate for an indoor antenna then don’t waste your time and money on this. The most basic antenna is rabbit ears with a UHF loop. If that doesn’t work then you should consider a disk antenna in the attic or something on the roof.

[vhelp]

What I outlined above serves as a good example of those moments where you don't listen
(or lock to) what you read or would assume is your only solution.

Just because I live in NY and that it is assumed that (by logical deduction) I should be pointing
my antenna to NYC for stations -- nay -- that to me is an example of narrow thinking. Anyway.

If one is willing to consider other alternatives and not locking oneself to an assumed location, then
Connecticut should be a good example to consider trying.

Dispite the fact that he/she did list stations based on a search at antenna.web, at least as an
experiment its worth a try. I'm quite sure he/she will get some stations in.

-vhelp 4553

[edDV]

Right now minni only as a rabbit ear + UHF loop. Worth a try.

Ant111

28mi and 183 degrees puts Minni somewhere up from the Tarrytown Bridge on the Hudson. That would be near 70 miles from Hartford.

[vhelp]

Because Minni lives closer to the city, there might be a better chance that with
an attic or roof antenna (covertly placed) will provide better reception. I guess that
will be determined by Minni when the time comes, if it does.

Although I've been down there many of times, Tarrytown is a bit far, from where I am.

Never the less, I just found something interesting about antenna.web, again. They
changed their lineup. Now, I'm no longer getting any Connecticut stations listed. All
I get are NYC stations, and all the major ones are reporting 41 miles away, while the
other multitudes are 39 or less miles away
I feel a bit cheated at the moment because I am not 41 miles from the city, mountins
and tall building asside. Anyway.

There's a whole slew of channel listings for NY, but none of those listed ever came in.
Is just another reason why not to fully trust these sites completely. That's why you
have to try other alternative measures

by the way, that NBC station I reported earlier, I think might actually be WVTI-NBC
or something like that.

-vhelp 4554

[vhelp]

After looking at that antenna..

Actually, I was just thinking.. if minni can't afford to go with an attic/outdoor type antenna,
the other alternative left might be to wing it, creatively through by means of weard antenna positioning
etc. However, that antenna doesn't leave much room for too much creative thinking from a practicle
standpoint.

-- A partial advice might be to find channels by way of observing your hd tv signal strength meter.
Once you start seeing your meter moving toward the right (assuming you have this feature) then you
can start auto-tuning for channels in the Conneticut direction.

-vhelp 4555

[edDV]

Also observe what the neighbors have erected and ask them how it is working for them.

AVS New York OTA (and all the others) discussion forum
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=453241

Details on post Feb 17, 2009 including new channel assignments and transmitter relocations..
http://www.rabbitears.info/dtr.php

[edDV]

More infromation than you probably wanted to know but existing WCBS-DT 56 on Empire State Building is using a directional pattern that will change to onmi directional antennas starting Feb 17, 2009 on channel 33. Also WCBS-DT will be sharing the new antenna with WNBC-DT 28 and WWOR-DT 38 on the ESB.
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=618024

This may help explain vhelp's current difficulties getting reception.

Also WABC-DT 7 (45 now) -- they want more power authorization for 7.
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=619861

[stiltman]

Antennaweb is pretty accurate down to the house number. It factors hills and other obstacles, transmitter power, transmitter location and transmitting antenna height.

Antennaweb is a crock!, At least where we live.
It shows 6 stations and 20-30 miles, NOT!
It doesn't even show the CBS station as digital
It doesn't show one of the most powerful digital stations
It failed to take into account a HUGE mountain blocking most of the north side of the city, so they can't even get the major networks, just a Spanish channel.

Take antennaweb with a grain of salt... Best thing to do is hook up something and start spinning it around. No signal, return it and get something better.

Also pointing directly at it isn't always a choice. You'd be surprised at bounce and deflection

[edDV]

Antennaweb is pretty accurate down to the house number. It factors hills and other obstacles, transmitter power, transmitter location and transmitting antenna height.

Antennaweb is a crock!, At least where we live.
It shows 6 stations and 20-30 miles, NOT!
It doesn't even show the CBS station as digital
It doesn't show one of the most powerful digital stations
It failed to take into account a HUGE mountain blocking most of the north side of the city, so they can't even get the major networks, just a Spanish channel.

Take antennaweb with a grain of salt... Best thing to do is hook up something and start spinning it around. No signal, return it and get something better.

Also pointing directly at it isn't always a choice. You'd be surprised at bounce and deflection

The terrain data comes from the government. The same data used to create topographic maps. The TV station data may be faulty. That comes from the FCC and may not be timely. Many changes are happening with tower construction and new transmitters. The models that drive the reception estimation are the same ones used by broadcasters and the FCC for TV tower location and power regulation.

Local issues are a huge factor. Trees and structures in the neighborhood may be blocking the direct signal from the tower so you must rely on bounces aka multipath. If that is the case expect stations to come and go because multipath varies with weather and antenna position. Amplification of an omnidirectional antenna will cause competition between multipath and the direct signal. With analog NTSC, multipath resulted in ghosting on the screen because you saw all paths. With ATSC, the tuner will choose the strongest path during the scan. When you see different power levels with different scans it is likely you are tuning to multipath rather than the direct signal.

Antennaweb gives you an estimate of which stations are potentially in range and their distance/direction. It will tell you its a fools mission to try a rabbit ears when the closest station is 50 miles away or over a hill. If you're in the boonies, there will be local antenna installers that know what will work or not work in the various local neighborhoods. Also the people in the local AVS OTA forums have already tried the ten antennas to find the one that will work. Ask them. Also the people on your street with new antennas on the roof. Ask them which channels they are receiving.

[stiltman]

The terrain data comes from the government. The same data used to create topographic maps. The TV station data may be faulty. That comes from the FCC and may not be timely. Many changes are happening with tower construction and new transmitters. The models that drive the reception estimation are the same ones used by broadcasters and the FCC for TV tower location and power regulation..

No new towers or translators have been installed in the past year at least. I take that back, the Nextel deal of switching to digital required some new recievers on existing towers.

CBS has been digital for about 2 1/2 years
ABC has been digital for about 1 1/2 years (only digital on antennaweb)
NBC has been digital for about 6 months and is also local news in HD

If it takes more than 2 1/2 years to update info on antennaweb, then how reliable can it be? My point exactly

At least where we live