Confused: Why a VCR with TBC if separate TBC needed anyway?

[FulciLives]

The ES20 doesn't do any better than the Datavideo at straightening the vertical distortions? Did you use the rear s-video input of the ES20?

Yes, I used the rear inputs.
I will set it up again and post more images as soon as I can...

How about image comparrisons between with the DV cam in the chain and without the DV cam in the chain.

That way we can see exactly the effect of the DV cam or at least what it will look like when not using the DV cam.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[gshelley61]

OK - just checked out if passing through a copy protected signal through either the Panasonic ES20 and the Toshiba D-R4 will strip MV... it doesn't.

Still need a full frame TBC or other device to deal with that if needed.

[BrainStorm69]

OK, I just checked things out with my Pioneer DVR-220. It actually does some mild correction of time base errors, but it is not up to snuff with the VCR internal TBCs, and in fact adds a little of its own flagging at the top of the picture that would be in the overscan.

See for yourself.



Straight from JVC - no TBC



From JVC - no TBC - passed through DVR-220

[davideck]

How about image comparrisons between with the DV cam in the chain and without the DV cam in the chain.

That way we can see exactly the effect of the DV cam or at least what it will look like when not using the DV cam.

Here they are;


JVC 7600 (TBC Off) -> PVR-250


JVC 7600 (TBC Off) -> TBC-3000 -> PVR-250


JVC 7600 (TBC Off) -> ES20 Rear S-Video (NR Off) -> PVR-250


JVC 7600 (TBC Off) -> ES20 Rear S-Video (NR On) -> PVR-250


JVC 7600 (TBC Off) -> MiniDV -> ES20 -> PVR-250

[gshelley61]

So the MiniDV camera has very strong time base correction capability... that's definitely good to know. I wonder if most brands and models of DV camcorders are this effective?

[lordsmurf]

Many of them do, yes.

[FulciLives]

So the MiniDV camera has very strong time base correction capability... that's definitely good to know. I wonder if most brands and models of DV camcorders are this effective?

Pretty amazing that lil miniDV cam is in regards to it's TBC functionality!

OK ... who has a miniDV or Digital8 with analog-to-digital passthrough ... a new round of test are in order LOL

Unfortunately I only have an old Sony Hi8 myself and even that old thing is falling apart. So I need these tests to determine what new miniDV or Digital8 cam I should buy

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[BrainStorm69]

@davideck - that camcorder TBC is impressive. But can you passthrough a commercial VHS tape? Something tells me the answer is "no."

[davideck]

@davideck - that camcorder TBC is impressive. But can you passthrough a commercial VHS tape?

Yes. I grabbed Star Wars V on VHS and the Camcorder is passing it through just fine.

[gshelley61]

@davideck - that camcorder TBC is impressive. But can you passthrough a commercial VHS tape? Something tells me the answer is "no."

Just tried it with my Canon Optura 20... no go. The camcorder periodically beeps and interrupts the video pass through with a Copy Protected - Dubbing Restricted message.

[BrainStorm69]

Hmmmmm....so it seems to vary from camcorder to camcorder with respect to commercial tapes. gshelley, does your camcorder seem to have as strong a TBC as davideck's? Or do you have any good way of knowing for sure?

[gshelley61]

I was able to pass through a copy protected signal with my Sony DCR-TRV330 Digital8 camcorder... but my two DVD recorders still rejected the resulting DV stream as copy protected.

[BrainStorm69]

Yes. I grabbed Star Wars V on VHS and the Camcorder is passing it through just fine.

Are you capturing with the ES20, or passing it through and capturing with your PVR-250? If the PVR-250, does it normally capture copy protected stuff w/o a problem?

[FulciLives]

The Hauppauge WinTV PVR 150, 250, 350 and USB 2.0 all disregard copy protection. So does the impressive ADS Instant DVD 2.0 (another USB 2.0 hardware MPEG capture device).

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[davideck]

Yes. I grabbed Star Wars V on VHS and the Camcorder is passing it through just fine.

Are you capturing with the ES20, or passing it through and capturing with your PVR-250? If the PVR-250, does it normally capture copy protected stuff w/o a problem?

I was capturing with the PVR-250.

[FulciLives]

Yes. I grabbed Star Wars V on VHS and the Camcorder is passing it through just fine.

Are you capturing with the ES20, or passing it through and capturing with your PVR-250? If the PVR-250, does it normally capture copy protected stuff w/o a problem?

I was capturing with the PVR-250.

Well I take it we are sure that the STAR WARS V (I assume you mean EMPIRE STRIKES BACK) VHS has copy protection of some kind so it is good news that the miniDV passes it but does it remove the copy protection?

How about same set-up but this time try to record it on the Panny to see if it is possible or not?

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[davideck]

How about same set-up but this time try to record it on the Panny to see if it is possible or not?

No. The ES20 will not record and displays a copyright warning.

[davideck]

Just FYI, the Lite-On 5104 DVD Recorder also provides continuous sync. Do all DVD Recorders function as frame synchronizers?

One annoying "feature" on the 5104 is the transport control menu that is ALWAYS overlayed on top of its video outputs during 1394 input selection. Has anyone discovered a way to turn this menu off? It prevents using the 5104 as a passthru 1394 to S-Video converter.

[BrainStorm69]

@davideck - what do you think of your JVC GR DVL915U as far as camcorders go? Is it pretty good? Since I don't have a MiniDV camcorder, I'm wondering if I ought to consider buying a used one in good shape for "dual" purposes.

[FulciLives]

@davideck - what do you think of your JVC GR DVL915U as far as camcorders go? Is it pretty good? Since I don't have a MiniDV camcorder, I'm wondering if I ought to consider buying a used one in good shape for "dual" purposes.

The GR DVL915U must be an old model. I looked at the current models and this looks to be the one to buy ---> GR-DF550US

The MSRP is $599.95 but using PRICEGRABBER.COM I found it for as little as $359.00 with free shipping.

There are several cheaper models but this was the cheapest one that said it supported analog-to-digital passthrough.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

*** EDIT ***
I looked again and I made a mistake. There are actually two models under the GR-DF550US (and therefore cheaper) that support analog-to-digital passthrough. They are the GR-DF450US (MSRP = $549.95) and the GR-DF430US (MSRP = $499.95)

The cheapest is the GR-DF430US which can be had for as little as $309 with free shipping thanks to using PRICEGRABBER.COM

[FulciLives]

I wanted to try this myself and finally have the time but I tried to download the file and it said that the link had expired.

Any chance of re-posting it or maybe someone can just e-mail it to me? I have yahoo mail which allows files up to 10MB in size per e-mail.

coleman4829@yahoo.com

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[davideck]

@davideck - what do you think of your JVC GR DVL915U as far as camcorders go?

It's a nice "corder" with a mediocre "cam".
Its low light performance is marginal. I guess that's pretty common. But it looked good in the store and the colors were spot on.

One nice feature for me was its ability to auto assemble edit with a suitable record VCR. I was still editing to SVHS at the time. Plus, its special effects and scene transitions can be added during the assemble process after the footage has been taken. So it's a nice editor as well.

[BrainStorm69]

I wanted to try this myself and finally have the time but I tried to download the file and it said that the link had expired.

Any chance of re-posting it or maybe someone can just e-mail it to me? I have yahoo mail which allows files up to 10MB in size per e-mail.

coleman4829@yahoo.com

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

Which test DVD do you need? I can repost to yousendit.

edit: I'm assuming you mean the original for this thread. Uploading to yousendit right now. Will repost the link when it's completed.

edit2: Here is the new link

http://s37.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2NWBMGE39CZPE1XSF5MD7WHEY6

[FulciLives]

I wanted to try this myself and finally have the time but I tried to download the file and it said that the link had expired.

Any chance of re-posting it or maybe someone can just e-mail it to me? I have yahoo mail which allows files up to 10MB in size per e-mail.

coleman4829@yahoo.com

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

Which test DVD do you need? I can repost to yousendit.

edit: I'm assuming you mean the original for this thread. Uploading to yousendit right now. Will repost the link when it's completed.

edit2: Here is the new link

http://s37.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2NWBMGE39CZPE1XSF5MD7WHEY6

Thank you ... this is the one with the white background and black "stripes" pattern, yes?

Much appreciated

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[BrainStorm69]

Thank you ... this is the one with the white background and black "stripes" pattern, yes?

Much appreciated

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

Yup. You're welcome.

[Lou71]

gshelley61 wrote:

You can do exactly the same thing with the Toshiba D-R4, which has the added benefit of some proc-amp type output image adjustments that are active during pass-through, including a sharpness booster

.

How well do you think the Toshiba D-R4 deals with these timebase errors
compared to some of your other DVD recorders, have you tested?

I purchased the Toshiba based of some favorable comments you gave it in other threads. So far have only captured satelite, but the results were very, very good.

I also Have a JVC BR-378U on the way, again from very good reviews you have given it. (Should be here in a few weeks)

Have you tested this combo (D-R4 + 378U) without any other TBC in between. If so how did they compare to some of the pictures you have posted in this thread from other VCR/ DVD recorder setups.
Thanks

[BrainStorm69]

Well, I took a flier on a I-DEN IVT-7 TBC on ebay that I won for $62. Hopefully it's in good shape and works well. If so, I will do some tests with it to see how it does at straightening out vertical time base distortions when the test tape is played on my VCRs that don't have a built in TBC.

[davideck]

Here is a capture of the Toshiba RD-KX50 DVD Recorder timebase correcting my timebase error test tape playing back out of a JVC 7600 with TBC/DNR Off.



Compare it to the other TBC devices that I posted here;
https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?p=1450793#1450793

Like the FOR.A Professional TBC, the Toshiba DVD Recorder actually improves the timebase stability of analog tape captures in addition to being a good frame synchronizer. As an E-E passthru device, it is a better external TBC than the DataVideo units. It also has nice proc amp controls on the play side that work in passthru. That makes it valuable before one recording is made or one DVD is burned.

But then there is all of the editing and authoring capabilities that the Toshiba units have. Much of what I do with Movie Factory on my PC I can now do with my Toshiba remote in my recliner. I like having that option.

Not to mention that it is also a great everyday timeslip recorder.
There is also the HDMI output. A bit premature for me, but maybe it will come in handy some day.

The bottom line for me is that when it comes to picture quality, the Toshiba RD-KX50 equals or outperforms my TBC-3000 / PVR-250 combination.

[anitract]

davideck, when did you purchase your Toshiba RD-KX50? Is it maybe an early predecessor to the RD-XS54? I ask because if it is an older model, then we can _probably_ assume that the later/current models (D-R4, RD-XS34, RD-XS54) have similar TBC-like functionality.

[davideck]

I've had it for about a month.
It is an 80 GB version of the RD-XS52. The local Best Buy was clearing them out.
I think that your assumption is reasonable; gshelley61 demonstrated the TBC performance of the RD-XS34 earlier in this thread.