PLEASE HELP: Issue with converting PAL to DVD before Authoring

[Chris Hooper]

Hi there everyone. Please forgive me ahead of time, as I am new to what I've seen thus far; very knowledgeable complexities of video converting from here in the forums that many many of you seem to possess.
I am being upfront, honest, and transparent in all manners with saying how exhausted I've gotten over the last few weeks and hundreds of countless hours I've put in, just trying to convert a single one season 1968 animated TV series from PAL to NTSC.
It's called, "Fantastic Voyage."
I'd never even heard of it before, until a gentleman named Dan Monroe brought it up on his channel. His channel is called, "Movies, Music, & Monsters." He spoke about it in one of his YouTube episodes. I guess I never saw it because it aired the year I was born, I don't know. Either way, I decided to look into checking it out and watching it. Turns out, even though it was an American show, it never got released onto DVD over here in the states. Instead, it got released over in the UK on DVD in 2011, I believe.
In the beginning I tried looking on YouTube to watch episodes of them, but they only have a few on there and they're of horrible quality; so I decided to check on eBay for DVDs or Blu-rays. That's when I found out it was only put onto DVD in the UK.
I decided to go ahead and purchase the 3 Disc full season set brand new from a gentleman there in the UK for $65 including shipping and handling, which I know is really expensive, but since it was never released over here, along with no decent looking videos on YouTube; that made me intrigued and want to buy it. LOL
I knew I would have to convert and burn it to play on my DVD player, but I didn't think it was going to be as difficult as it has been.
As soon as I got it in, I ripped the first disc to my hard drive using WinX DVD Copy Pro. I read on their website that you can make exact copies of commercial DVDs while taking out the Copy Protection and the Region Lock. I had no idea that it couldn't change the video standard of PAL to NTSC. I just assumed that based on how they worded everything; especially with them talking about taking away Region Lock making discs easily play anywhere on any DVD player. Sneaky marketers. LOL
So, after ripping the .VOB files onto my hard drive and finding out I would have to convert the video standards, I started researching.
Oh, by the way, the very first thing I noticed right away was, even though this was "professionally done", put onto DVD by Koch Media, the very first 2 episodes of 6 from Disc 1, only play audio out of the left channel. And that is SO annoying!
So, one of the things I had to look for was, not only to de-interlace, convert from PAL to NTSC, but also find a way to convert everything from Stereo to Mono. Good Times! LOL
I have tried so many tactics, trying so many different things, using FreeMake Video Converter, HandBrake, MakeMKV, DVDStyler, AviDemux 2.8, AVStoDVD using AVISynth within that, and loads upon loads of scripting via batch filing using FFmpeg with help from GPTchat; and probably a few others I can't think of off the top of my head, Just to fall short every single time. I've had more errors come up in the FFmpeg processes than you could imagine! LOL!
I was able to overcome the Stereo to Mono fairly easily with FFmpeg. Then the de-interlacing wasn't much of a problem with FFmpeg. The most difficult and challenging part has nonstop been trying to convert from PAL to NTSC.
All of those programs I mentioned earlier always yielded with the end results being jittery after the conversion. I guess jittery would be the best word to describe it. The only thing that seems to have helped was using minterpolate within the scripting for FFmpeg, but even then you can see where it's trying to "blend?" frames?, I'm guessing? It kind of has a tracer effect going on between frames as though it duplicates and blends frames. I'm not sure. I'm not tech savvy. LOL
The nonstop errors I get pre or post any of the programs that I use, always come back to it being the audio. With the errors I got during processing via FFmpeg, according to ChatGPT reading those different errors each time; it's corrupt audio from the actual DVD itself; meaning I guess, that they messed it up when digitizing it over onto DVD from film? Which I guess would seem pretty accurate considering the first 2 of 6 episodes of Disc 1 only play out of the left channel. LOL
Okay, so after ALL of this rambling which I'm sure I could've summed up in a couple sentences LOL, I have this question:
Does anyone know what the best software program for PC could be used for what I need?
I'm really hoping to find a 1 Click converting solution, but I'm sure there is no such thing.
ChatGpt mentioned several times to purchase the TMPGEnc bundle of the Video Mastering Works 7 with the Authoring Works 7, but it costs $195 for both bundled, which I guess I would buy, out of no choice, if I knew that it would work. I just don't know if it could convert from stereo to mono, de-interlace, and convert PAL to NTSC all within the program before authoring. And even if it can do all of that, will the video look smooth after the PAL to NTSC conversion?; or "Blendy/Tracer-like transitioning between frames?"; or worse yet, Jittery like all of the other programs that I've used, minus FFmpeg.
In any case, I'm so done with all of the programs I've used. Too many hours put in for nothing. I was trying to have this done and burned in time for my brother's 53rd birthday coming up this Tuesday the 17th; but it's looking like that's not going to happen. LOL

[hello_hello]

There's several ways to convert PAL to NTSC. There's probably no reason why you couldn't slow it down to 23.976fps if it's progressive.
It's also possible to repeat fields to take it up to 29.97fps, in much the same way 23.976fps film is converted to 29.976fps using telecine, or converting them from interlaced PAL to interlaced NTSC using field blending, but ultimately, and in my humble opinion, the better question would be rather than how to convert it to an NTSC DVD, would be to ask how to avoid doing that.

I know NTSC equipment tends not to play anything "PAL" (although I live in a PAL country myself) but I'd be astounded if that limitation wasn't mostly confined to industry standard formats, such as DVDs. Most Bluray players with a USB input, TVs with built in media players, smart phones & tablets etc, even some DVD players with a USB input for playing video, should play almost anything you throw at them these days, regardless of frame rate, resolution, race or religion, as long as the video is encoded in a format they can decode and comes in a container they're familiar with such as MP4 or MKV. Although, you said you gave MakeMKV a test drive. It should extract the video from the disc and save each episode as an MKV without having to convert the video and I suspect most players would be willing to play it as long as they don't need it to be on a disc.

It's also quite possible that some of the problems you've come across weren't of your making and the conversion from NTSC to PAL created all sorts of nasties itself, although given the age of the video it sounds like whoever distributed the NTSC version didn't want to spend much money or didn't care enough to use the highest quality video/film of the show still remaining, which could be why the PAL version looks better. Once you've uploaded a few short samples from the DVDs someone will be able to tell you.

For the record, NTSC vs PAL and region lock are different things. NTSC countries can be in different regions. Region lock is probably illegal in most western countries as it's a restriction of trade, but they've managed to get away with it, at least before streaming when people still bought DVDs and Blurays (I know this would be a case of only being able to get it on disc).

[The_Doman]

When using a DVD/Blu-ray with HDMI output you would expect no problems playing that on a NTSC HDMI TV, assuming of course there is no region lock.
As suggested , try some tests converting to MKV and see if your TV or other equipment can play it directly?

If no HDMI output, may be your DVD player can be set to output PAL or NTSC?

[Chris Hooper]

I feel as though this thread is going to get off of the question at hand, as I've see so many others do in the other posts I'd read here on Video Help.
Please Re-read my question if needs be. Which is why I had put it into Bold Font to begin with.
These DVDs are for my brother.
Here's some added information as well about him.
He is very stuck in his ways. He lives like it's 1977 in most areas except for the DVD player that he has. He doesn't have a Smart TV, doesn't believe in them, nor does he want an Amazon Fire stick, Roku, or any device like that. He'll just want to put the discs into his old DVD player that he bought from a Goodwill; he will not want to buy a new DVD player fully loaded, nor want anyone to get one for him.
It's very straight forward.
I just need to know how to convert those 3 DVDs from PAL to NTSC so that the frames look smooth, preferably with a software program that's easy to use and will do everything I need it to, as I already wasted hundreds of hours on a dozen different programs with no great results.
Thanks in advance.

[davexnet]

AVStoDVD can probably do it; it has choices regarding frame rate conversions as mentioned. Saying that, I don't think you'll find a one-click solution.

You should post a sample of your source for analysis

[Chris Hooper]

Here's a file that's been converted from PAL to NTSC. Let me know what you all think?
Does it look bad? Does it look okay? Meaning that it either looks smooth enough or seems off in any way.

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AltuOyWPfg39hG0mag-_LkhC61pX?e=HfuEzr

[hello_hello]

I feel as though this thread is going to get off of the question at hand, as I've see so many others do in the other posts I'd read here on Video Help.
Please Re-read my question if needs be. Which is why I had put it into Bold Font to begin with.

Sorry for thinking you could maybe go about it in an easier way. I'll leave you to it.

[Alwyn]

In Hello_hello's defence, that first post is a tad too long. All we needed to know was the aim: produce an NTSC DVD from a PAL DVD ie NO usb-type stuff and what you've tried so far.

It is always a worry when you come onto forums like this; somebody will berate you for not researching if you seem to ask for hand-holding and on the other hand others would be quite happy to help way before the "Hundreds of hours" point. Do you have any hair left?

Back to the subject, without knowing what the original looks like, your NTSC attempt doesn't look too bad to me. Your friend, if he can't cope with a USB stick, is probably not a pixel-peeper and so will think that was quite OK. Even I got wrapped up in that octopus!

It's a bit noisy and some of the edges are a bit scratchy but hey, it probably passes CBA test (Cost-Benefit-Analysis or "Can't Be @rsed putting in any more effort" test).

FWIW, I created an NTSC MPEG file from a ripped PAL VOB with AVIDemux and then opened that with DVDStyler to create an NTSC DVD. It came out OK. Any constantly-moving objects are a little jerky; remember the software has to convert 25fps to 29.97 fps and without interpolation, it won't be super smooth.

Seconding Davexnet's suggestion, it would help if you could also post a snippet of the original VOB, say the first 5 minutes. I have snippet instructions for AVIDemux here. That should be under 500mb, so you can attach it to your post using "Upload Files", or whatever's easiest.

[jagabo]

It looks like you converted progressive 25 fps PAL to progressive 29.97 fps NTSC with frame duplication with blending. If you step through frame by frame you'll see a pattern of 4 clean frames followed by 2 blended frames whenever there is constant motion. I'd prefer to use 3:2:3:2:2 soft pulldown but it takes more work.

[Chris Hooper]

Oh WOW, your spot on, Jagabo!
Great eye!!
The FFmpeg script used minterpolate.
How do you use what you suggest, if you don't mind me asking. And can that be done with FFmpeg? That's where I've had the best of my results. Everything else seems to give me errors or error reports.

[jagabo]

You can resize to 720x480 and encode as progressive MPG2 at 25 fps. Then use DgPulldown to apply 3:2:3:2:2 pulldown flags (25p to 29.97i). note that DgPulldown only works with elementary streams (not MPG or VOB files) so you may have to demux/remux depending on the tools you use. Once you have an MPG or VOB file with pulldown flags you can author as a 29.97 fps interlaced DVD.

But, as others have pointed out, if you don't need a DVD you'll be better of just encoding as 25p h.264 in MP4 or MKV. Or even just remux the MPEG2/AC3 into an MKV file. (I'd do the former along with some cleanup with AviSynth).

[Chris Hooper]

It needs to be DVD. My brother is going to be playing it on his DVD player.
I'd like for it to be exactly the same with DVD Menus and the works just like from the original commercial DVD disc set.

[cholla]

@ Chris Hooper,
jagabo is way more knowledgeable than me.
AVStoDVD will separate a DVD into Elementary streams.
Then use DgPulldown on those.
Then add those back to AVStoDVD & create a DVD.

If there is a better software to do this separation & joining someone can suggest it.
ffmpeg may even be able to do this but I have never tried it for this.

[jagabo]

Of course ffmpeg can demux from VOB or MPG to an elementary stream:

ffmpeg -i input.vob -c copy -an output.m2v

And mux it back with:

ffmpeg -i input.m2v -i input.ac3 -c copy output.vob

But the OP still needs to resize and reencode.

[Sharc]

ffmpeg may even be able to do this but I have never tried it for this.

Doable yes. Ffmpeg supports hard telecine only AFAIK which is less efficient than soft telecine using DGPulldown though.

[Chris Hooper]

What would you two, Sharc/Jagabo, suggest I do for the best results?
I've heard terminology like demux/remux, which I'm assuming is separating the video files' video, audio, possibly Subtitles, from the original whole file track, into their own separate entities, working on them, then recombining them, but I'm completely clueless.
Can you tell me what the best approach would be with open source freeware? Or should I just purchase a program like TMPGEnc or maybe better program that would do it automatically.
Thank You SO Much for your help gentlemen!

[Sharc]

It needs to be DVD. My brother is going to be playing it on his DVD player.
I'd like for it to be exactly the same with DVD Menus and the works just like from the original commercial DVD disc set.

I don't know a commercial tool which does all this simply and reliably. Can't help you with this, sorry. Avs2dvd may come next to it if you accept simplified basic menus
Doing it manually using free tools is laborious and reqires knowledge. Jagabo has outlined the conversion steps in his post #11, without the authoring part with menu etc. restoration.

[jagabo]

I don't know of any tool other than DgPulldown that applies pulldown flags other than the usual 2:3 (aka 3:2) pulldown (for 23.976 to 29.97 fps). I haven't made a DVD in years but always used AviSynth for cleanup, HCGUI for MPEG2 encoding, DgPulldown to add pulldown flags, and ffmpeg or the old free version of TMPEGEnc for remuxing back to MPEG PS. Then DVD authoring software from there.

[davexnet]

AvstoDVD can do it, depending on how the preferences are set.
Here's an example of a 25>29.97 with pulldown

<9/15/2024 2:11:30 PM>
START PULLDOWN OPERATIONS
DGPulldown Parameters: "C:\Users\davex\Videos\tag2-fox2_Thunderbirds - Trapped in the Sky (UKTV 1965 HEVC).m2v" -srcfps 25 -destfps 29.97 -inplace -tff
<>

[Chris Hooper]

I quit using AVStoDVD, Dave because every time I load a video file it takes away the audio.

[davexnet]

I quit using AVStoDVD, Dave because every time I load a video file it takes away the audio.

The program creates a comprehensive log, did you review it?
I've never of this problem before...

[Chris Hooper]

Oh WOW, really? I thought it was just an AVStoDVD issue.
Let me go run it. and post the Log.

[Chris Hooper]

This is the Log after I encoded a short video clip.




<9/15/2024 5:41:59 PM>
START PROCESS
<>

<9/15/2024 5:41:59 PM>
PROJECT SETTINGS

DVD Video Standard: NTSC
DVD Titles number: 1
DVD Size: 40/4450 MB (1%)
DVD Output Setup: DVD Folder
DVD Label: DVD
DVD Menu: No Menu
Output Folder: C:\Users\chris\Desktop\AVS Output
Delete Temp Assets Files: Yes
Delete Temp Working Files: Yes
Edit Command Parameters: No
Post Process Task: Show Progress Status window

PREFERENCES

MultiThread: 1
AVS Video Source Filter: A2DSource
AVS Audio Source Filter: A2DSource
AVS UpSize/DownSize Filter: Lanczos4Resize/Spline16Resize
Frame Adjust Strategy: 0
FPS Hard Conversion: 0
PAL SpeedUp: 0
NTSC SlowDown: 0
Video Resolution: 0
Video Encoder: 3
Video BitRate Min: 2500
Video BitRate Max: 8500
Keep DVD Compliant Video: 1
AC3 Audio Encoder: 0
Force FFmpeg for Long Audio: 1
DVD Audio Format: 0
DVD Audio BitRate: 192
Keep DVD Compliant Audio: 1
Normalize Audio: 0
Auto Delay Audio: 1
DVD Audio Language (Primary): EN - English
DVD Audio Language (Secondary): EN - English
DVD Subs Language (Primary): EN - English
DVD Subs Language (Secondary): EN - English
DVD Subs Font: Tahoma 16pt (240,240,240)
Chapters Interval: 5
Use Source Chapters: 1
DVD Burning Drive: E: HL-DT-ST DVDRAM SP80NB80 RF02
DVD Burning Speed: 4x
Auto Erase DVD RW: 1
Unload ActiveMovie Library: 1
Adjust DirectShow Filters at runtime: 1
Save General Settings: 0

SYSTEM INFO

Processor Name: AMD Ryzen 7 3750H with Radeon Vega Mobile Gfx
Operating System: Windows 10 (10.0.19041) 64 bit
User has Admin Rights: YES
Running with Elevated Privileges: NO (3)
Available Output Disc Space: 218 GB
AviSynth Version: AviSynth 2.60, build:Mar 31 2015 [16:38:54] (release 2.60)
LAV Filters is installed: YES (release 0.74.1)
ffdshow is installed: NO

CODECS REPORT

H.264/AVC: Microsoft DTV-DVD Video Decoder
Xvid: Mpeg4s Decoder DMO
DivX 4/5/6: Mpeg4s Decoder DMO
Other MPG4: Mpeg4s Decoder DMO
DV: DV Video Decoder
MPEG1: MPEG Video Codec
MPEG2: Microsoft DTV-DVD Video Decoder
AAC: Microsoft DTV-DVD Audio Decoder
MP3: MP3 Decoder DMO
MP2: Microsoft DTV-DVD Audio Decoder
AC3: No Preferred Filter set
<>

<9/15/2024 5:41:59 PM>
TITLE 1 SOURCE FILES
Video: C:\Users\chris\AppData\Local\Temp\VTS_03_2.d2v
Info: DGIndex - 6699 kbps - 720x576 - DAR 4:3 - 25 fps (CFR) - 8 bit - Interlaced (BFF) - 39 seconds - 984 frames
[AVSMeter.exe]
<>

<9/15/2024 5:41:59 PM>
AVISYNTH SCRIPT
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\AVStoDVD\DGIndex\DGDecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\AVStoDVD\Lib\LeakKernelDeint.dll")
Import("C:\Program Files (x86)\AVStoDVD\Lib\MCJMFPS.avsi")

Video = MPEG2Source("C:\Users\chris\AppData\Local\Temp\VTS _03_2.d2v")

Video = Video.ConvertToYV12(interlaced=true)
Video = Video.LeakKernelBob(0,7,false,false)
Video = Video.Spline16Resize(720,480)
Video = Video.MCJMFPS(59.94)
Video = Video.SeparateFields().SelectEvery(4,0,3).Weave()

Return Video
<>

<9/15/2024 5:41:59 PM>
DIRECTSHOW AUDIO MIXER OPERATIONS:
No LAV Filters mixer ON/OFF adjustment required at runtime
<>

<9/15/2024 5:41:59 PM>
START VIDEO ENCODING OPERATIONS
Video Encoding Profile: HCenc VBR 2-pass
Target Video FileSize: 39.5 MB
Encoding Parameters: -ini "C:\Users\chris\AppData\Local\Temp\DVD_VTS_03_2.HC enc.ini"
HCenc ini file:
*INFILE C:\Users\chris\AppData\Local\Temp\DVD_VTS_03_2_1.a vs
*AVSRELOAD
*OUTFILE C:\Users\chris\Videos\DVD_VTS_03_2.m2v
*LOGFILE C:\Users\chris\AppData\Local\Temp\DVD_VTS_03_2.HCe nc.log
*MAXBITRATE 9000
*BITRATE 8500
*PROFILE BEST
*ASPECT 4:3
*INTERLACED
*BFF
*BIAS 80
*DC_PREC 10
*MATRIX MPEG
*AQ 1
*LUMGAIN 1
*SMP
*PRIORITY HIGH
*DBPATH C:\Users\chris\AppData\Local\Temp
*WAIT 2
<>

<9/15/2024 5:44:20 PM>
END VIDEO ENCODING OPERATIONS
Created File: C:\Users\chris\Videos\DVD_VTS_03_2.m2v (37.6 MB)
Ouput Video Info: MPEG-2 Video - 8018 kbps - 720x480 - DAR 4:3 - 29.97 fps - 8 bit - Interlaced (BFF) - 39 seconds - 1180 frames
Avg Video Encoding Speed: 8.4 fps
<>

<9/15/2024 5:44:20 PM>
START DVD AUTHORING OPERATIONS
BatchMux Parameters: -arglist "C:\Users\chris\AppData\Local\Temp\DVD_BatchMux.in i"
BatchMux ini file:
-bmlog "C:\Users\chris\AppData\Local\Temp\DVD_BatchMux.lo g"
-d "C:\Users\chris\Desktop\AVS Output\DVD\VIDEO_TS"
-mxp "C:\Users\chris\AppData\Local\Temp\DVD_MuxMan. mxp"
-l "C:\Users\chris\AppData\Local\Temp\DVD_MuxMan. log"
-muxman "C:\Program Files (x86)\AVStoDVD\MuxMan"
-prio HIGH
-palette "C:\Users\chris\AppData\Local\Temp\DVD_Palette.txt "
-v "C:\Users\chris\Videos\DVD_VTS_03_2.m2v"
-vidmode 4:3
<>

<9/15/2024 5:44:33 PM>
END DVD AUTHORING OPERATIONS
Created Folder: C:\Users\chris\Desktop\AVS Output\DVD (38.3 MB)

CHECK DVD SIZE
DVD Folder (actual) Size: 38.3 MB
vs Assets Size: 37.6 MB -> OK
vs Estimated Size: 40 MB -> 4.3% undersize
<>

<9/15/2024 5:44:33 PM>
AVStoDVD Project ended successfully.
<>

<9/15/2024 5:44:33 PM>
Log file created by AVStoDVD Release 2.8.9
<>

[Chris Hooper]

The file had audio before the encoding. I uploaded the original file for you to see.
AVStoDVD does that to all of the files, but it's the only this program that does that.
And it's the latest version of 2.8.9 from October 11th, 2020.
I even went as far as uninstalling it and reinstalling it and it still doesn't load audio.
That's why I gave up on it awhile back. I figured it was just a crap program and went on to other things.

[davexnet]

It looks you used a d2v file as your source input.
d2v only carries video, no audio at all.

Just load the audio separately (presumably you used DGindex which demuxes the audio for you when it saves the project)

[Chris Hooper]

What does d2v mean?
My input was that .VOB file I uploaded and showed you.
I didn't use anything to demux. I don't even know what that means. I'm assuming to separate a file into separate entities such as video, audio, and possibly subtitles, but I have no idea. I didn't use DGIndex or anything. I just input my .VOB file and it automatically takes away the audio. It's definitely an AVStoDVD thing.

[davexnet]

What does d2v mean?
My input was that .VOB file I uploaded and showed you.
I didn't use anything to demux. I don't even know what that means. I'm assuming to separate a file into separate entities such as video, audio, and possibly subtitles, but I have no idea. I didn't use DGIndex or anything. I just input my .VOB file and it automatically takes away the audio. It's definitely an AVStoDVD thing.

OK, A2D indexed the file for you. Let me look at it.

[Chris Hooper]

Ahhh, gotcha.
Thank You, Dave!

[Chris Hooper]

I found out what the problem was, Dave. So far anyway. LOL
I'd originally done a batch script in FFmpeg to convert all of my .VOB files from stereo to mono because the company who digitized these onto DVD didn't do a very good job, so some of the videos only play audio from the left channel. But after doing that, AVStoDVD said, Screw You, I'm going home, and wouldn't load those converted files.
I did however find that I can load the original files into AVStoDVD and the sound source gets loaded with it. After that I went into into the Audio settings and changed that from 2 channels to 1 which resulted in them coming out in mono. YAYYY
Now all I need to do is find a way to incorporate bwdif for de-interlacing (I prefer bwdif over Yadif), and DGPullDown for the video standard conversion of PAL to NTSC into AVStoDVD and I should hopefully be set.

[davexnet]

Load the ifo associated the DVD title. IT will offer to index, select yes. Then it will mention that it found the audio, just close that box
("X" top right). You'll see the assets in the project window, also if you open the project at the Avisynth tab,
you'll see both video and audio accounted for