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  1. Member
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    I tried resizing my videos to 720 x 480 with a 4:3 aspect ratio by setting SAR to 10 width and 11 height, but it makes the frame 640 x 480 with added black bars. Is this supposed to happen? Or what should I do to resize to 720 x 480 with a 4:3 aspect ratio? The original sources that I have aren't 720 x 480. Video that starts with #2 is the original video and the one I resized is one from Vdub with SAR 10/11 at 720 x 480
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    The black bars left and right are part of the video. You have to use the crop tool and crop them out.
    https://files.videohelp.com/u/152675/cropped2.mkv
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  3. Originally Posted by Pokemonfan3213 View Post
    Is this supposed to happen?
    That's supposed to happen if you don't use Crop function available in almost every editing app.

    Originally Posted by Pokemonfan3213 View Post
    Or what should I do to resize to 720 x 480 with a 4:3 aspect ratio?
    720 is frame width with black bars. You want to cut them out.
    Therefore after cut it won't be 720 but minus width of bars. Makes sense?
    Load into any program supporting editing e.g. XMedia Recode, use Crop filter and Auto Crop function, set Aspect Ratio to 4:3, set output video bitrate, export to output video, and voila.
    Last edited by tuskacz; 31st Mar 2024 at 14:07.
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    Originally Posted by davexnet View Post
    The black bars left and right are part of the video. You have to use the crop tool and crop them out.
    https://files.videohelp.com/u/152675/cropped2.mkv
    Cropping them out would give 640 x 480 not 720 x 480 and if I resize to 720 x 480 it would go back to what it was
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    Originally Posted by tuskacz View Post
    Originally Posted by Pokemonfan3213 View Post
    Is this supposed to happen?
    That's supposed to happen if you don't use Crop function available in almost every editing app.

    Originally Posted by Pokemonfan3213 View Post
    Or what should I do to resize to 720 x 480 with a 4:3 aspect ratio?
    720 is frame width with black bars. You want to cut them out.
    Therefore after cut it won't be 720 but minus width of bars. Makes sense?
    Load into any program supporting editing e.g. XMedia Recode, use Crop filter and Auto Crop function, set Aspect Ratio to 4:3, set output video bitrate, export to output video, and voila.
    I understand however I want the resolution to be 720 x 480 so cutting them out would make it 640 x 480 with an aspect ratio of 4:3. I flagged thea aspect ratio via Vdub as how you described via SAR width 10 and SAR height 11. It is correctly outputted as 4:3 however the actual frame itself is downscaled to 640. I had the original videos above 640 (715ish x 480) so i'm not sure why its downscaling to 640 rather than being put at 720. The way it is done is confusing
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    Originally Posted by Pokemonfan3213 View Post
    Originally Posted by davexnet View Post
    The black bars left and right are part of the video. You have to use the crop tool and crop them out.
    https://files.videohelp.com/u/152675/cropped2.mkv
    Cropping them out would give 640 x 480 not 720 x 480 and if I resize to 720 x 480 it would go back to what it was
    Is it imperative the file remain at 720x480 physical pixels ?? You never quite said that in your first post above.
    like this?
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    Originally Posted by davexnet View Post
    Originally Posted by Pokemonfan3213 View Post
    Originally Posted by davexnet View Post
    The black bars left and right are part of the video. You have to use the crop tool and crop them out.
    https://files.videohelp.com/u/152675/cropped2.mkv
    Cropping them out would give 640 x 480 not 720 x 480 and if I resize to 720 x 480 it would go back to what it was
    Is it imperative the file remain at 720x480 physical pixels ?? You never quite said that in your first post above.
    like this?

    Yes I forgot to mention that, I'm actually putting them on DVD as a backup, might also watch them via that way as well and also I would want to stick with NTSC standard. Many of the threads and comments I've seen is to always have a 720 x 480 resolution over any other low resolution
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  8. Use Shotcut for example as you have requested in your other thread. The procedure has been explained there. Simply use SD NTSC as your Viedo Mode, crop using the 'Crop:Source' filter and encode accordingly as 720x480 4:3. The standard templates are there in Shotcut. Also keep in mind that DVD is mpeg2 rather than AVC/mpeg4.

    P.S. You can do similar with Vdub2 btw.
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    Last edited by Sharc; 31st Mar 2024 at 17:17.
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    Resize settings for VDub after cropping:

    Image
    [Attachment 78065 - Click to enlarge]


    Encode with SAR 10:11 and it should display as 4:3 (I am assuming 10:11 is correct because it's mentioned above).
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  10. Originally Posted by Pokemonfan3213 View Post
    Cropping them out would give 640 x 480 not 720 x 480 and if I resize to 720 x 480 it would go back to what it was
    That's what's supposed to happen. If you crop to 640x480 it's 4:3. You then stretch the width to 720, but encode with a PAR of 10:11 so it displays as 4:3 (640x480) on playback.

    Using the Avisynth function in my signature, just to show you the numbers....

    Here's how much you'd need to crop in order to crop the image cleanly to 4:3 (44,2,-48,-6). For 720x480 with a PAR of 10:11 it means you'd need to resize to 704x480 and add 8 pixel borders each side, as 10:11 makes the DAR slightly wider than 4:3 (1.3636 rather than 1.3333). You won't be able to crop the extra 0.5 of a pixel shown in the screenshot with VirtualDub so it'll be a pixel off, which isn't much. It'll display as 654x480.

    CropResize(720,480, 44,2,-48,-6, OutDAR=15.0/11.0, Borders=true)

    Cropping preview.
    Image
    [Attachment 78066 - Click to enlarge]

    Cropped and resized, plus borders.
    Image
    [Attachment 78067 - Click to enlarge]

    How it'll display on playback (resized to 652x480 for mod4 dimensions).
    Image
    [Attachment 78068 - Click to enlarge]


    If you don't want any borders, you'll need to crop a little extra from the height to make the DAR of the remaining picture 1.3636, or a little wider (44,8,-48,-12).

    CropResize(720,480, 44,8,-48,-12, OutDAR=15.0/11.0)

    Cropping preview (edit to upload the correct pic).
    Image
    [Attachment 78076 - Click to enlarge]

    Cropped and resized.
    Image
    [Attachment 78070 - Click to enlarge]

    How it'll display on playback (resized to 652x480 for mod4 dimensions).
    Image
    [Attachment 78071 - Click to enlarge]


    Keep in mind though, that once it's a vob file most hardware players these days will display the video as exactly 4:3, regardless of the 10:11 PAR (the player will assume the PAR is 8:9). MKVs and MP4s are different as the correct PAR can be stored.

    If that's the case, you may prefer to crop the video to 4:3 and use an 8:9 PAR so you don't need to add black borders.

    CropResize(720,480, 44,2,-48,-6, OutDAR=4.0/3.0)

    Cropping preview.
    Image
    [Attachment 78072 - Click to enlarge]

    Cropped and resized.
    Image
    [Attachment 78073 - Click to enlarge]

    How it'll display on playback.
    Image
    [Attachment 78074 - Click to enlarge]
    Last edited by hello_hello; 31st Mar 2024 at 23:18.
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  11. Originally Posted by hello_hello View Post
    .... Keep in mind though, that once it's a vob file most hardware players these days will display the video as exactly 4:3, regardless of the 10:11 PAR (the player will assume the PAR is 8:9)......

    If that's the case, you may prefer to crop the video to 4:3 and use an 8:9 PAR so you don't need to add black borders.
    Yes. That's what Shotcut did in my post#8 using its SD NTSC DVD defaults. But frankly, in view of the OP's more prominent flaws of his clips (dropped frames, crushed and clipped whites, elevated blacks, wobbling, lack of details) I wouldn't bother too much about a few pixels more or less and the "true or speculatively correct" DAR-PAR-SAR-FAR-MAR ... jumble .
    Now assuming (!) that the original is (or was) a regular 720x480 VHS capture with small side borders (approx 2x8 pixels) I would eventually suggest to make it 704x480 4:3 mpeg2 without any borders, which is DVD spec compliant as well.
    Last edited by Sharc; 1st Apr 2024 at 03:05.
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  12. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
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    Those black bars should not be there in the first place, What is the source of these files and why they are not 720x480 without black bars or with 16 black pixels if originated from analog video tapes? Resizing 640 to 720 again worsen the video quality, Just crop to 640x480 and watch them in square pixel 4:3 ratio.

    Another member here was in the same situation and we had a long discussion about it.
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  13. Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    ... Just crop to 640x480 and watch them in square pixel 4:3 ratio.
    This advice has been given to him in his recent thread but now the OP wants to have it NTSC DVD compliant it seems.....

    FWIW here the 704x480 NTSC DVD variant (PixelAspectRatio 10:11):
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    Last edited by Sharc; 1st Apr 2024 at 11:37.
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  14. Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    Those black bars should not be there in the first place, What is the source of these files and why they are not 720x480 without black bars or with 16 black pixels if originated from analog video tapes? Resizing 640 to 720 again worsen the video quality, Just crop to 640x480 and watch them in square pixel 4:3 ratio.

    Another member here was in the same situation and we had a long discussion about it.


    I need to put them on DVDs. I recorded them all using 720 x 480 and they all came out via that way. 640 x 480 won't work with dvd. Also on virtualdub what should my framing option be if I need.to resize?
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  15. Originally Posted by Pokemonfan3213 View Post
    I tried resizing my videos to 720 x 480 with a 4:3 aspect ratio by setting SAR to 10 width and 11 height, but it makes the frame 640 x 480 with added black bars. Is this supposed to happen? Or what should I do to resize to 720 x 480 with a 4:3 aspect ratio? The original sources that I have aren't 720 x 480. Video that starts with #2 is the original video and the one I resized is one from Vdub with SAR 10/11 at 720 x 480
    There is nothing to resize.
    Use clever FFmpeg-GUI, start it and follow the instructions.
    Then load your #2 video not edited.mp4, click main, click various, click change DAR, insert 1.33 (=4:3) in the new DAR field, click change.
    No recoding, just stream copy.
    Done.

    Image
    [Attachment 78101 - Click to enlarge]
    Image Attached Files
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  16. Originally Posted by ProWo View Post
    Originally Posted by Pokemonfan3213 View Post
    I tried resizing my videos to 720 x 480 with a 4:3 aspect ratio by setting SAR to 10 width and 11 height, but it makes the frame 640 x 480 with added black bars. Is this supposed to happen? Or what should I do to resize to 720 x 480 with a 4:3 aspect ratio? The original sources that I have aren't 720 x 480. Video that starts with #2 is the original video and the one I resized is one from Vdub with SAR 10/11 at 720 x 480
    There is nothing to resize.
    Use clever FFmpeg-GUI, start it and follow the instructions.
    Then load your #2 video not edited.mp4, click main, click various, click change DAR, insert 1.33 (=4:3) in the new DAR field, click change.
    No recoding, just stream copy.
    Done.

    Image
    [Attachment 78101 - Click to enlarge]
    That would work as well. Would it be better to do it this way or is setting SAR to 10/11 also valid on Vdub. I'm applying filters on them anyway via vdub
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  17. If you want use filter and reencode then set the target DAR instead of SAR.
    This way the right sar is applicated automatically.
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    Also on virtualdub what should my framing option be if I need.to resize?
    As per post #9.
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  19. Originally Posted by Alwyn View Post
    Also on virtualdub what should my framing option be if I need.to resize?
    As per post #9.

    I found another link that says here to choose "letterbox/crop to size" and to use relative not absolute pixels so I'm not sure which it is

    https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-editing/4207-how-properly-crop.html
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    Yes, Lordsmurf uses a different technique. I crop then resize. I don't have/want/like black borders.

    By the looks of that post, he resizes, crops, then resizes again.

    Spotted the typo in it.

    Edit: I think LS uses the three-step technique because that version of VDub doesn't have a Crop filter, per se. You have to activate another filter before the cropping function becomes available. In VDub 2, there is a standalone Crop filter, activated in the normal filter way.
    Last edited by Alwyn; 2nd Apr 2024 at 09:26. Reason: Extra info added.
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  21. This simple ffmpeg commandline should be good enough for producing NTSC DVD compliant 4:3 files (PAR=10:11) for any of the OP's samples.

    Code:
    ffmpeg -i "%~1" -c:a ac3 -c:v mpeg2video -b:v 6000k -maxrate 9800k -vf "crop=640:480, scale=w=704:h=480" "%~1_DVD.vob"
    Or with a bit of cropping into the picture and centered:
    Code:
    ffmpeg -i "%~1" -c:a ac3 -c:v mpeg2video -b:v 6000k -maxrate 9800k -vf "crop=4/3*oh:ih-12,pad=640:480:-1:-1,scale=w=704:h=480" "%~1_DVD.vob"
    How to use (assuming you have ffmpeg on your PC):
    - Copy the commandline into notepad and save it to your desktop as pokemon.cmd.
    - Now drag and drop your file onto that icon on your desktop. A new NTSC 4:3 DVD compliant .vob file with ac3 audio will be created in the folder of your source.


    Could also be put in an batch to process all files one by one automatically.
    Last edited by Sharc; 2nd Apr 2024 at 16:53. Reason: Added: How to use
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  22. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CyberDragon33 View Post
    I need to put them on DVDs. I recorded them all using 720 x 480 and they all came out via that way. 640 x 480 won't work with dvd. Also on virtualdub what should my framing option be if I need.to resize?
    Capture to lossless AVI 720x480 and encode to DVD, Only one generational loss, The way you are doing it is double loss.
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  23. Originally Posted by Pokemonfan3213 View Post
    Yes I forgot to mention that, I'm actually putting them on DVD as a backup, might also watch them via that way as well and also I would want to stick with NTSC standard. Many of the threads and comments I've seen is to always have a 720 x 480 resolution over any other low resolution
    Originally Posted by CyberDragon33 View Post
    I need to put them on DVDs. I recorded them all using 720 x 480 and they all came out via that way. 640 x 480 won't work with dvd. Also on virtualdub what should my framing option be if I need.to resize?
    DVDStyler might be a good option for a DVD compliant solution. If you can't recapture properly as recommended you can crop and rescale in DVDStyler as needed etc. Sample attached.
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    Last edited by Sharc; 3rd Apr 2024 at 03:43.
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