"Cue dot" markers on DVD releases of a TV series

[techmot]

Not sure if this should be in this particular thread but can't find any other relevant thread on here.

Does anyone know on some DVD releases of a TV show (I'm talking here about a UK show) they display that black and white marker at the top right hand corner of the screen (I think it's called a cue dot) which would indicate that an ad break was coming up on a TV broadcast. I've noticed that on the DVD releases of the UK TV series Heartbeat that this marker appears before the ad break junctions, but for some odd reason there one on other episodes from the same series. All of my early TV recordings of the episodes all have this marker display, but it seems the DVD releases I've watched (mostly on youtube) only appear on random episodes even though they are from the DVD release. Does anyone know why this is? are the makers of the DVDs using different broadcast tapes one which doesn't have the marker and others that do have it?. You would this would be consistent?.

A few examples:

DVD version

[Attachment 67240 - Click to enlarge]

TV broadcast recording

[Attachment 67241 - Click to enlarge]

DVD version

[Attachment 67242 - Click to enlarge]

As you'll see some of the episodes from the DVDs display the marker but others don't and this isn't specific to series but seems to be on random episodes. Maybe this is common other TV shows originally shown on TV where adverts were shown.

[DB83]

The simple answer is that the creator of the dvd can only work from the version provided by the originating studio/tv broadcast.

The original recording would not have them but a version supplied from a transmission would. Maybe the original 'master' was no longer available and the out-sourcing studio required broadcast versions to complete the series.

[techmot]

The simple answer is that the creator of the dvd can only work from the version provided by the originating studio/tv broadcast.

The original recording would not have them but a version supplied from a transmission would. Maybe the original 'master' was no longer available and the out-sourcing studio required broadcast versions to complete the series.

Maybe you're right, I was kinda thinking the same. but the episodes with or without them seem to be random, not like half way through one series we see the marker and then in the next episode it isn't there, it appears one there then doesnt in the next ep then it's there again in the other or maybe the ep that afer. It could also be that the episodes are from a different region DVD, maybe say the Australian release (which I the show is released in) doesn't have the marker but the UK DVD region 2 release does have it. As I don't have the actual UK DVDs release myself as I am going from youtube uploads, it's hard to tell. It is strange though. Another odd thing about the show on DVD is the use of different music, and yes I'm well aware of the changes to the songs like the Beatles, but some of the songs used as covers replacing the original broadcast songs (which I'm assuming they just layered another track and removed the other song?) that the background noise like vehicles, kids playing etc don't match the ones heard on the TV version, almost they just layered a different song over the top of the existing track without bothering to remove it or they couldn't because they didn't have the original master tape without the music and so had to simple add another song on top and add a few sound effects.

[DB83]

Well if you do not have ANY actual dvd releases but yt uploads which but their very nature can come from a multitude of sources you are hardly in any place to judge.

And as for music it is a well known fact that incidental music in dvd releases has to be changed from broadcast versions since the original broadcaster might have had permission to use whereas it did not have permisssion to pass on. And NO master tape would be silent as you appear to describe.

[netmask56]

The "original" cue dots were circular and go back to the days of actual celluloid film and marked a cue to the projection operator that the 10 minute roll of film was coming to the end so get ready to roll the next or in TV land a commercial was due that was probably on a different projector! Things have moved on but it appears the cue dot remains although these days mostly not visible.

[hello_hello]

Wikipedia indicates they're IBA style cue dots.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cue_mark#Cue_dots_in_television

The change in music is probably to save money. I can't remember the details, but I think it's an American thing. When a TV show uses an artists song they're charged a fee. Then if it's released on DVD they're changed again, and again for the next format. Don't quote me but it's along those lines.
I think for the rest of the world the artist charges a fee to use a song in a TV show and that's it, aside from some sort of royalty, I assume.

I can't think of an example off the top of my head, but there's TV shows that never made it to DVD because of the cost of the music. And plenty have been released with a substitute soundtrack for America and the original soundtrack everywhere else.

Streaming services have the same problem. I stumbled across this post a while ago, listing the Scrubs soundtrack changes on Netflix.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Scrubs/comments/2lmf7h/ive_made_a_list_of_dvdnetflix_song_differences/

[netmask56]

Yes hello_hello there are a multitude of copyright fees to trap the young player! World Rights are the most expensive. Local one off are generally the cheapest. Decades ago I had to negotiate with a very formidable Lotte Lenya, the wife of Kurt Weill to obtain permission and negotiate a fee to use about 45 seconds of part of his 2nd Symphony in a local docudrama. Over the phone I felt I was dealing with a real life Rosa Klebb a real baptism of fire for me. This was for a public broadcaster with very limited budget with a small potential audience. We settled for Commonwealth countries clearances only, so no US or EU release. Personally it was of such specialised interest I didn't think it was worth the effort for other than Australasia and UK clearance. Would have been easier to drop the music. Then of course there are Mechanical Rights now that's a nightmare in itself!!!

[techmot]

On the subject of music, a number of episodes from that particular show that I screengrabbed, on their DVD release (again going by youtube, but I think they are the same as the actually DVDs, can't see why someone would've edited them) it appears that it's not just the songs that have changed but also some of the background audio like extras speaking, noise of vehicles, children playing etc. Now I would've assumed these were recorded "live" ie when the scene was filmed, but they may've been added in post production, or some of them. If they are were part of the background when the scene was shot then it's odd why the DVD studio who released the DVDs added sound effects on top of the existing ones and over the original song, unless of course the copy they were given already had the original song and it couldn't be removed in editing, and so they had to use similar sound effects and use another song and just add it onto the existing soundtrack.

Example:
DVD version:
https://files.videohelp.com/u/301282/Heartbeat%20S05E11%20-Vigilante%20DVD%20version.avi

Original TV version:
https://files.videohelp.com/u/301282/Series%205%20Ep11%20TV%20version.mp4

[DB83]

Oh come on.Have you NO idea how filming is done ?No sound, other than natural/voice is recorded live. ALL music is added post-production. And since both of these samples are Beatles musak I would doubt if Apple were over-joyed if they appeared either in an original broadcast (unless with permission) or in an official dvd release (with paid-for rights)

[techmot]

Oh come on.Have you NO idea how filming is done ?No sound, other than natural/voice is recorded live. ALL music is added post-production. And since both of these samples are Beatles musak I would doubt if Apple were over-joyed if they appeared either in an original broadcast (unless with permission) or in an official dvd release (with paid-for rights)

Yes I do know that. And the song in the DVD version is a cover version not the original, and that wouldn't have been an issue. The backgrounds were probably added in editing and they probably didn't have access to them, hence why it's different. The TV broadcaster would've have had permission to use the original Sgt Peppers song.

[Cornucopia]

You don't know that using a cover would not have been an issue - it may not be the original but it has its own set of licensing requirements, and even covers still must be licensed. You also don't know that broadcasters had permission to use the original song, or the possibility of broadcasting it more than once.

Most pro films & TV shows are released to distributors with multiple sets of tracks: the mono/stereo/surround overall mixdown, as well as STEMS aka the submixes of Dialog (Vox/Live ambience), Music & Effects (though these last 2 are sometimes combined). The Dialog track is often kept separate for use with translated overdubs for international release. If that submix includes ambience, which it sometimes does, that ambience needs to be recreated if possible. Sometimes this is just done in the studio using Foley, but often it is just dropping in stock ambient sounds (which may not even sync up, but being "ambience" usually isn't noticeable or necessary). Sometimes the ambience is part of the FX track. It almost never is its own track - studios rarely allow that kind of granularity to their releases, even to distribution partners.

This control of music licensing, copyrights, access, use & re-use, is not an "American thing" it is an "International thing". WIPO governs these kinds of agreements, and they are sticklers for upholding the rights of the original producers (or more accurately, their "legal representatives").


Scott

[hello_hello]

This control of music licensing, copyrights, access, use & re-use, is not an "American thing" it is an "International thing". WIPO governs these kinds of agreements, and they are sticklers for upholding the rights of the original producers (or more accurately, their "legal representatives").

Where did I say control of music licensing, copyrights, access, use & re-use, is an "American thing".
What I said was the rules seem to be different in America, which causes the U.S. releases of many TV shows to be have a replacement soundtrack. Many countries have compulsory licencing as part of their copyright laws, but what's covered varies from country to country, and in the U.S. probably from state to state. I have a vague memory of compulsory licencing in the U.K. allowing music licenced for a TV show to be used again when the show is released on DVD. The royalties are still paid, but the author's permission isn't required to release the show in a different format... Or maybe that's complete crap.

I do know the only thing on the internet close to being as common as porn would be the complaints that TV shows were released on DVD in Canada or England etc and possibly everywhere else, with the original soundtrack, but for the American release it's a Muzak version of the soundtrack instead.

Northern Exposure was released on DVD in 2009 with the original soundtrack, and again on Bluray in 2018, unless you live in the U.S. where the replacement soundtrack wasn't replaced with the original again until sometime last year..