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  1. Member spiritgumm's Avatar
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    Have a 720x480 dvdr of a 4:3 film with huge black borders (the result of a poorly made home transfer). Wondering if there's a program that could set the video to flag the dvd/blu-ray player to zoom in a certain amount to get full fullscreen, rather then cropping and re-encoding. Something like RESTREAM which can change the DAR without encoding. I can use my TV zoom option but it's not accurate.

  2. Member DB83's Avatar
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    The short answer to your Q. is AFAIK no. DVD players read the commands contained in the ifo and the AR and there is no such command.


    Now for a slightly longer answer.


    It is not clear to me what you have. You do realise that 4:3 dvds are meant to be displayed with 'wide' black borders left and right. Zoom in with that and you lose detail top and bottom.


    But you might have a non-anamorphic widescreen video in a 4:3 frame which then results in bars both left and right and top and bottom. If the active video was truly 16:9 then a zoom might be able to remove most of these. In fact both of my dvd players have a zoom button on the remote (as well as one on the tv remote). How effective these are I know not.


    However all versions of PowerDVD I have seen also have a variable zoom control and that could work for you. Of course that is for a PC and not a tv display.

  3. Member spiritgumm's Avatar
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    Take what I wrote at face value. A 4:3 film. A badly made home transfer of the film. Like pointing the film on a wall or mirror box and recording it with a VHS video camera. Borders means borders, all around. I didn't say only on the sides.

    I have a retail blu-ray video with two display options - it's the same movie but one is slightly zoomed in. I would think this could be done with dvd, although only the zoomed in video needs to happen.

  4. Most TV sets have zoom settings. My Samsung certainly does. That's what I'd use. You might not get a perfect crop, but you should be able to eliminate most of the borders.

  5. Member spiritgumm's Avatar
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    I indicated I was aware of the TV zoom option (basically just one setting on my TV).

  6. Originally Posted by spiritgumm View Post
    I indicated I was aware of the TV zoom option (basically just one setting on my TV).
    OK, if you don't want to use that, and if you want to exactly remove the borders, you could play the DVD using a computer connected to the TV. VLC (and probably other media players) lets you adjust zoom to your taste.

  7. Member DB83's Avatar
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    I do love it when one has to second-guess what material the OP has. So my second guess, given the additional info, that it is 8mm or super8 FILM.


    Neither of these is 4:3 so whatever you do you will still get a border.

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    Originally Posted by spiritgumm View Post
    I indicated I was aware of the TV zoom option (basically just one setting on my TV).
    dvdfab has an option to remove the black bars from your video - https://www.dvdfab.cn/tutorial/crop-video-without-black-bars

  9. Member spiritgumm's Avatar
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    I also indicated I'm looking for a solution that does not involve re-encoding.

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    Originally Posted by spiritgumm View Post
    I also indicated I'm looking for a solution that does not involve re-encoding.
    You could write a short script in Avisynth to crop the file then play the file in mpc-hc

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    Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    I do love it when one has to second-guess what material the OP has. So my second guess, given the additional info, that it is 8mm or super8 FILM.


    Neither of these is 4:3 so whatever you do you will still get a border.
    This is critical. Is the video portion really 4:3?

  12. Member spiritgumm's Avatar
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    It should be 4:3. It's from a 1970s American TV show. The problem is most likely the camera was too far away from the projected film image. Here's a still image using VLC.
    I tried to change the resolution with Restream, but it didn't do anything useful.
    Image Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	vlcsnap-2020-11-29-17h04m53s68.png
Views:	12
Size:	371.7 KB
ID:	56019  

    Last edited by spiritgumm; 29th Nov 2020 at 17:47.

  13. You seem to want to reject every idea being given to you. But I'll try one more time.

    Since you used VLC to get the screen grab, did you try playing around with the zoom options in VLC, as I suggested? Some quick Googling suggests that you can customize the zoom to give you the result you want.

    And, no re-encoding.

  14. Member spiritgumm's Avatar
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    Re-read the original premise of my post: using a dvd or bu-ray player hooked up to a TV.

  15. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by spiritgumm View Post
    I also indicated I'm looking for a solution that does not involve re-encoding.
    The technical term for this is "SOL".

  16. Member spiritgumm's Avatar
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    Well, couldn't hurt to ask. I've found non-encoding solutions for other problems when most people are told it wasn't possible. Like fixing the DAR with Restream, for example.

  17. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Jeez. You talked about 'film' and then a 'mirror box'. Now we have a 'Tv Show'. Do make your mind up.


    And the answer is still NO. You can NEVER fill a screen with that image without losing detail.


    BTW you are not even displaying the 'whateveritis' correctly. If you have a 4:3 dvd you really should be seeing a 640*480 frame. That 720*540 even suggests an incorrect resize/re-encode. Or is that just a result of using Restream ? Or it is not dvd-video to start with.

  18. Member spiritgumm's Avatar
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    There is no mystery or contradiction. TV shows were filmed. Collectors get 16mm copies and make home transfers as described. I'm sure you can find an explanation about pixel size and why VLC represents 720x480 as 540 elsewhere.

  19. Originally Posted by spiritgumm View Post
    Re-read the original premise of my post: using a dvd or bu-ray player hooked up to a TV.
    Geezz ... I actually can read, and did read your post.

    As the last few posts by others have pointed out, what you asked is not possible, so I was trying to give you some alternatives. However, given your attitude, I will not bother trying to help you in the future. Good luck with your project.

  20. aBigMeanie aedipuss's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by spiritgumm View Post
    There is no mystery or contradiction. TV shows were filmed. Collectors get 16mm copies and make home transfers as described. I'm sure you can find an explanation about pixel size and why VLC represents 720x480 as 540 elsewhere.
    load of bs. tv shows weren't filmed on 16mm and no "collectors" can get copies of things that don't exist. some 16mm "prints" were distribution copies of the original with commercials but not at original quality. and most you'll find online are 16mm films made by filming a tv screen. extra bogus crap.
    --
    "a lot of people are better dead" - prisoner KSC2-303

  21. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by spiritgumm View Post
    There is no mystery or contradiction. TV shows were filmed. Collectors get 16mm copies and make home transfers as described. I'm sure you can find an explanation about pixel size and why VLC represents 720x480 as 540 elsewhere.

    If I get bored I will dig out a 4:3 NTSC dvd and see what vlc does with it. Yet I still suspect it will not ignore the PAR of the dvd to create the frame that you promote.


    Yes, 'Collectors', by fair means or foul, do acquire prints of broadcast material. I guess tho that they rarely, if ever, get a 16mm copy but a VHS inter-copy. Such copies would have to be done somewhat 'under the radar' and without regard for viewing protocol. If you have one of these just be thankful and forget your mission to view as you want. Or just invest in a few bucks for an old version of PowerDVD as I previously promoted and forget your impossible quest to view on tv as you would prefer to (without a crop/re-encode)

  22. Member spiritgumm's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by aedipuss View Post
    Originally Posted by spiritgumm View Post
    There is no mystery or contradiction. TV shows were filmed. Collectors get 16mm copies and make home transfers as described. I'm sure you can find an explanation about pixel size and why VLC represents 720x480 as 540 elsewhere.
    load of bs. tv shows weren't filmed on 16mm and no "collectors" can get copies of things that don't exist. some 16mm "prints" were distribution copies of the original with commercials but not at original quality. and most you'll find online are 16mm films made by filming a tv screen. extra bogus crap.
    Hey psycho, I was talking to the other guy. He said I was making different claims about the source - "first film, then TV." I was simply stating that TV shows were filmed. I never said (or claimed to know) what film format TV shows used. I said collectors got 16mm copies and copied those.

  23. Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    If I get bored I will dig out a 4:3 NTSC dvd and see what vlc does with it. Yet I still suspect it will not ignore the PAR of the dvd to create the frame that you promote.
    The VLC "Take Snapshot" function does save screenshots of 4:3 NTSC DVDs with a 720x540 resolution. It's 4:3.
    I assume someone must've decided VLC should increase the height for the snapshot rather than reduce the width.

  24. Member DB83's Avatar
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    Ok. I'll concede on that one. So I also did a similar test on a PAL dvd fully expecting the same result. But no. Vlc displays a PAL 4:3 dvd at 768*576.


    Not for this topic but why adopt the PAR on PAL but not NTSC ?


    But for this topic I have NEVER read a tv show described as a 'Film' even if it was shot on that medium. I guess there is always a first time for everything.

  25. Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    Ok. I'll concede on that one. So I also did a similar test on a PAL dvd fully expecting the same result. But no. Vlc displays a PAL 4:3 dvd at 768*576.


    Not for this topic but why adopt the PAR on PAL but not NTSC ?
    It's resizing both to 4:3 dimensions. Only for NTSC it increases the height instead of reducing the width. Maybe so there's no loss of detail when saving the snapshot, given the other DVD flavours can be resized to the correct DAR by only increasing the width, but for 4:3 NTSC it has to be reduced, unless you increase the height.

  26. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by aedipuss View Post
    Originally Posted by spiritgumm View Post
    There is no mystery or contradiction. TV shows were filmed. Collectors get 16mm copies and make home transfers as described. I'm sure you can find an explanation about pixel size and why VLC represents 720x480 as 540 elsewhere.
    load of bs. tv shows weren't filmed on 16mm and no "collectors" can get copies of things that don't exist. some 16mm "prints" were distribution copies of the original with commercials but not at original quality. and most you'll find online are 16mm films made by filming a tv screen. extra bogus crap.
    TV shows weren't necessarily filmed. For example, Twilight Zone (Rod Serling, 60s) shot some episodes directly to tape (Ampex).

    16mm (prints) was a cheap pre-tape method to share shows. However, I rarely see TV shows in 16mm, and more often cartoons in 16mm.

    VLC takes lousy snapshots, use VirtualDub2 for this need.

  27. Until about 1960, TV shows were broadcast in one of three ways:

    1. Live from the video cameras to the audience.
    2. Shot on movie film, just like theatrical films, and then broadcast from that 16mm or 35mm movie film, using a film chain.
    3. Recorded from live video (#1 above) to film (called a Kinescope), and then later broadcast using #2 above.

    After videotape started being used widely just before 1960, some shows were recorded on videotape and then re-broadcast later. This quickly became common as the 1960s progressed. However, because the 2" quadruplex ("quad") tape was so bulky and so expensive, virtually none of the early videotaped shows survive on tape because the tapes were re-used (i.e., copied over).

    Fortunately for those of us who like the old stuff, many shows -- even those which were videotaped -- were also recorded to film for another reason: advertisers. The companies advertising their product wanted proof that their commercials aired; that they aired in their entirety; and that they got the time slot they requested. As a result, lots of shows were captured on film. Many of these Kinescopes are still being discovered to this day, usually when a TV station studio gets moved or remodeled.

  28. @hello_hello
    The VLC "Take Snapshot" function does save screenshots of 4:3 NTSC DVDs with a 720x540 resolution. It's 4:3.
    I assume someone must've decided VLC should increase the height for the snapshot rather than reduce the width.
    And this has evolved repeatedly over the past few years, at some point snapshots didn't preserve an anamorphic aspect ratio at all, i.e. a snapshot of a 720x576 DVD was in 720x576, no matter what the flagged A.R. was. Bummer.


    @lordsmurf
    VLC takes lousy snapshots, use VirtualDub2 for this need.
    Could you elaborate a bit ? What is the problem with VLC's PNG snapshots ?




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