All in Wonder Owners. Your input please.

[Kolosus]

I've read as many threads as I can find on this topic, but have one question that doesn't seem to be addressed in any of them.

Is there a difference in capture quality between the 9800 pro and all, or any, of it's predecessors?
I am considering purchasing this card to replace my 7500AIW, and this is the one reservation I have left. Would appreciate some constructive feedback.

[canadateck]

I did just that, i didnt seem to see a difference,now I'm out 200$ for nothing,if i was to do it again i would go with somthing different,like a hardware encoder.

[non-linear]

Unless you're a serious gamer and need the extra performance for 3D gaming, I don't think you'll see any benefits with the 9800 over the 7500. I use a 7500, and it does great capturing.

[FirefoxV]

I still use one of the first AIW 32 DDR models, I just keep the graphics & MMC software updated and it does a great job as well.

[mmasw]

I have the 8500DV and I think they all have about the same engine for capture.

But isn't one advantage of the later versions the Video Soap feature in MMC?

I haven't updated myself since I'm still plodding along in W98, but as I understand it the Soap filters can improve analog capture

[canadateck]

You can also use video soap with the 7500 card, not sure about older cards.

[Craig Tucker]

The 9000 series cards do have a different capture chip from the 7000 series. How much improvement in capture quality this gives I don't know. Lordsmurf would be the guy to ask.

[Kolosus]

Thanks to everyone for the input so far. After reading a few more reviews, I have discovered that only a few cards have the new Theater 200 chip on them. Such as the 9700 and the 9800. Also, the 9800 is hardware assisted encoding.(Knew that, but didn't know it was unique to this card in the AIW line.)

I did just that, i didnt seem to see a difference,now I'm out 200$ for nothing,if i was to do it again i would go with somthing different,like a hardware encoder.

I would be curious to know what you would choose given the chance to do it over again.

[Sam Ontario]

I would buy a DVD recorder, its less expensive and trouble free.

[Bodyslide]

I have the original 32mb ATI card, and I just keep updating the drivers and MMC, and the Videosoap also works on mine as well.

[Nelson37]

I am not certain which cards have the Theater 200 chip and which have the 100 chip. Also uncertain what, if any, benefits are specific to each chip. User reports somewhat unclear.

I have been told, in person, by an ATI tech rep that ATI had "hardware assisted" mpeg encoding before they even made the AIW series. This consisted of some memory buffers, and, if I understood him correctly, some very limited on-chip processing. Significantly better than a standard capture card, but nothing approaching a "Hardware MPG Encoder". This was several years ago but I have not read of any significant changes to this. SFAIK, same features on ALL AIW series.

Have been sifting user reports for definite improvements on changing to Theater 200 card, many of the perceived differences likely due to upgrading MMC, VideoSoap for those who did not use it previously or those who upgraded PC at same time. Have seen little specific other than apparently better tuner, which I do not use. And that was more related to card model than the Theater 200 chip.

MMC 8.1 will run on an AIW 7500.

If you do the upgrade, please report back on capture quality and performance gains, if any.

[lordsmurf]

ATI changes their stories and PR a lot.

The original Theatre Rage chips were touted as realtime hybrid encoding, using a piece of dedicated software backed by some hardware assist. It had some good software (ATI MMC), and then hardware chps based on Ligos GoMotion that did MPEG processing for encoding and decoding.

The drivers are quite good too.

All the Macrovision "problems" I can agree with, and do not blame ATI. Not any more than I blame VCR makers anyway. They do what they must, in order to not be sued or at very least stay in the clear. You wanna break Macro? Then do it on your own (TBC).

Then the new Theatre 200 chips came out, and all info on the Theatre Rage fell off the planet. Odd.

The Theatre 200 has more MPEG processing for encoding, but maybe like 8% more at most.

Nothing else... nothing at all... changed

Worth it? No, not really. Better? Maybe, but again, not really. Not on a good setup. Most computers can handle an ATI AIW.

This is the list as I know it...

The ATI AIW cards with Theatre Rage:
128 PRO AGP
7000 AGP & PCI
7200 (aka DDR32) AGP & PCI
7500 AGP
8500
8500DV
9000
9200
9500 (PAL)
9600

The ATI non-AIW with Theatre Rage:
VIVO PCI

The ATI AIW with Theatre 200:
9700
9600 PRO
9000 PRO
9800
7500 VE (or just VE)

Card not having Theatre Chips:
128 non-PRO
128 PRO PCI
TV Wonder
TV Wonder VE (not sure this exists for real)
TV Wonder Pro

Coax tuners tend to range from card to card. They are about the same across the board. Not really perfect, but still better than anything in this consumer price range. Better things surely exist, but I can't afford them.

All THEATRE chps use ATI MMC. Non-Theatre chips can be hacked, or may run it natively already. The problem is x480 resolutions on the non-AIW cards. And the ATI MMC does only software encoding, which does not look as good without the Theatre chips doing whatever they do.

There have also been reports of mixed chips, like the 9700, 9600 or VE (cards done at the transition time) having either chip. The box always says what it has.

This is what I know. If I made any mistakes, I reserve the right to go back and fix them.

I use a 7200 AGP and 7200 PCI. I gave away a 128 PRO last Christmas. A friend uses the 9000. They all looked equally good. The user makes the biggest difference.

[Kolosus]

If you do the upgrade, please report back on capture quality and performance gains, if any.

The last time I saw performance gains and capture quality increase was when I switched to 8.1 from 7.x. I run 8.9 now(nope, no problems), but don't see any real improvements in those two area's between it and the other 8.x's. However, I think there has been much improvement in capture efficiency over that time.

The user makes the biggest difference.

Agreed. Lordsmurf.

After reading everyone's thoughts on the matter. And after a little more research. I think I'll leave my old 7500 right where it is and (as suggested) buy a +RW recorder. Now, if I can just decide which one. LOL.

Thanks again for all the input gentleman.