Authoring DVD Workflow Question

[bytor2112]

Hello all,
I have a question about the workflow on a project I am working on.

Back in 2006, I received a lot of help from folks on this site on taking my home videos and importing them to my desktop and editing them into a DVD. Now I am working on archiving. My goal is to back up the original DVDs to an HDD as well as burn another copy on a BD-R. Eventually I will also back up the original Hi8 tapes. Wish I kept that old desktop that had a FireWire card. Grrrr.

When I tried to upload the original DVDs to my laptop using VLC and HandBrake, it did not work, as the DVDs would stop importing even though you could play them all the way through.

Thanks to some help from this site, I used ISOBuster with no issues. From my understanding, this will also keep the interactive chapter selections I made.

My next move is to back these files up on my backup HDD, but I also want to make a playable BD-R. Do I just copy these files to the disc, or is there another step? As always, I really appreciate the help.

[VWestlife]

DVDVob2MPG is the best tool for losslessly ripping DVDs (at least non-copy-protected ones).

[Alwyn]

A bit to unpack here. The critical question is whether you want to retain the structure of the DVDs or are happy to walk away from the menus and just back up the video files themselves. You can, of course, do both.

To back up a complete DVD, menus and all, use IMGBurn to "rip" the DVD to an ISO file (which is actually the "image" of the complete disk. With the ISO, you can still play it on your PC just like on a DVD player using VLC Player to access the menus. There are probably other programs out there that will play DVD ISOs but IMGBurn is foolproof. You could then copy that ISO to your laptop and play the ISO with VLC. There are probably media players that will also play the ISO (and it's menus) through a network.

To back up only the videos, yes, DVDVOB2MPG is good, but it will only give you each "movie", and you have to extract each VOB set one at a time. If you've used chapters in your authoring, you won't get those split-ups; you'll just get one MPG, so you may want to use something like AVIDemux to separate all the various movies.

As far as BD-R goes, I'm very sketchy on them, but the file structure is completely different to a DVD. I think you'll need to completely re-author the project into BD format if you want to use menus.

Other options which I haven't tried are placing the MPGs from your DVD onto USB sticks and playing them on your TV, or creating a BD data disk, where some BD players might read the files directly.

Personally, I have moved away from DVDs because in the future DVD drives probably won't exist. I have ripped all my VOBs with DVDVOB2MPG to convert them to MPG and then split up each one into the individual subjects. I now just have a heap of MP4s and MPGs that I play either on my PC or through my network to the TV. I don't need menus because the files have descriptive file names (8-digit Date-Time at the start of each file name).

[bytor2112]

Thanks, guys, for getting back to me.

Just a little clarification. My plan is 2 fold. 1) To back up the original DVD I made to my external HDD. And 2) To make a Blu-ray version of this DVD.
The reason for the Blu-ray is that I read that this media is supposed to have a longer shelf life.

Personally, I have moved away from DVDs because in the future DVD drives probably won't exist.

The struggle is real.

To back up a complete DVD, menus and all, use IMGBurn to "rip" the DVD to an ISO file (which is actually the "image" of the complete disk. With the ISO, you can still play it on your PC just like on a DVD player using VLC Player to access the menus. There are probably other programs out there that will play DVD ISOs but IMGBurn is foolproof. You could then copy that ISO to your laptop and play the ISO with VLC. There are probably media players that will also play the ISO (and it's menus) through a networ

I used ISOBuster to upload the original DVD to my PC due to transfer issues I had with other software. This resulted in me getting ISO files imported to my PC and preserving my interactive DVD menus.

Now my next step is to take the ISO file and burn a Blu-ray disc using a BD-R.

As far as BD-R goes, I'm very sketchy on them, but the file structure is completely different to a DVD. I think you'll need to completely re-author the project into BD format if you want to use menus.

From what I looked into so far (This morning), most Blu-ray players recognize BD-R, but I think I need to watch out for the format, like BDMV, I think
I am working on the balance between compatibility and quality. I'll keep digging.
Again, thanks for the help.

[cholla]

I have not tested this.
ImgBurn is supposed to be able to burn a DVD.iso to a blu ray disc.
As far as I know you can not do this with multiple DVDs & have the interactive menus.

IsoBuster can also rip a DVD as a VIDEO_TS folder

[bytor2112]

Thanks Cholla

IsoBuster can also rip a DVD as a VIDEO_TS folder

I wonder if a VIDEO_TS would play in a "typical" Blu-ray player, or do I need to author it to a BDMV. I could be overthinking this..

[bytor2112]

Just an update,
So I took the original home video DVD that has active menus, and I was able to play these in my PS4, PS5, and my Blu-ray player and use the menu just fine. The properties of this DVD+RW disc are VIDEO_TS. So I guess, theoretically, I could use IsoBuster to rip the DVD as a VIDEO_TS folder to my PC, as Cholla suggested, and burn this folder to a BD-R and maintain the menu function.

It seems like an ISO is ok to play on the PC with a player but would still need to be re-authored to burn a playable BD-R, as Alwyn suggested.

Would this approach have the least loss?

[Alwyn]

I could use IsoBuster to rip the DVD as a VIDEO_TS folder to my PC

If the DVD is unprotected, no need to use ISO buster, just drag the VIDEO_TS folder off the disk onto your hard drive.

and burn this folder to a BD-R and maintain the menu function.

Try it.

[Alwyn]

I used ISOBuster to upload the original DVD to my PC due to transfer issues I had with other software. This resulted in me getting ISO files imported to my PC and preserving my interactive DVD menus.

You don't actually need the ISO; VLC will happily "play" the VIDEO_TS folder.

[cholla]

VLC will play the .ISO too.

I suggested IsoBuster because that is what bytor2112 used to create the .isos in poat#1.
ImgBurn should be able to burn form either an .ISO or VIDEO_TS folder..

Even on an unprotected DVD I prefer a ripping software to copy to Windows.

If a DVD VIDEO_TS folder is written to a blu ray disc like it would be to a DVD disc.
It will not play on a settop BD player.
The reason is the BD player will look for a BDMV folder to play from not a VIDEO_TS folder.
This is for a computer or settop BD player.

You can write VIDEO_TS folders to a blu ray disc as a data disc.
You would play just the .vob files in the folder.
If you write a blu ray data disc I recommend leaving out the DVD menus in the VIDEO_TS folder.
If you are just archiving the Video_TS folders then leave in the menus.

[bytor2112]

You don't actually need the ISO; VLC will happily "play" the VIDEO_TS folder.

Alwyn, I had issues importing because the transfer would stop midway. ISOBuster was the only way I could do this. What was strange is I could play the disc just fine on my PC, PS4, PS5, and standalone Blu-ray player. My goal is to archive the video both on HDD and Blu-ray.

If a DVD VIDEO_TS folder is written to a blu ray disc like it would be to a DVD disc.
It will not play on a settop BD player.
The reason is the BD player will look for a BDMV folder to play from not a VIDEO_TS folder.
This is for a computer or settop BD player.

Cholla, thank you for the advice.

You can write VIDEO_TS folders to a blu ray disc as a data disc.
You would play just the .vob files in the folder.
If you write a blu ray data disc I recommend leaving out the DVD menus in the VIDEO_TS folder.
If you are just archiving the Video_TS folders then leave in the menus.

Cholla, Understood. I am trying to have it all . I may have to settle with the Video_TS folder if I cannot convert to a BDMV folder, as archiving is my priority and why I chose Blu-ray.
Is BDMV considered lossless?

[mokyng55]

ISOBuster preserves structure. BD-R needs re-authoring for playback. DVDFab or similar. Or burn ISO as data for backup only.

[cholla]

The BMDV folder is just the folder on a blu ray disc that has the video files inside it.
If it is ripped without compression then it will be as lossless as it was on the blu ray disc.

[bytor2112]

ISOBuster preserves structure. BD-R needs re-authoring for playback. DVDFab or similar. Or burn ISO as data for backup only.

mokyng55, I was just looking at that. Thanks for confirming.

The BMDV folder is just the folder on a blu ray disc that has the video files inside it.
If it is ripped without compression then it will be as lossless as it was on the blu ray disc.

Cholla, Thanks for the explanation. So because I ripped my DVD as an ISO folder, then it should be somewhat lossless or as good as the
Disc theoretically.

[cholla]

I believe things are getting a bit confused.
This is for only the DVD rip with IsoBuster to .ISO .
IsoBuster does a bit-by-bit rip if the DVD disc is undamaged.
So the .ISOs you have should be lossless if the DVD discs were undamaged.

Note IsoBuster does not rip commercial encrypted DVD discs.
Except when an additional decrypter is used like DVDFab Passkey.
Sometimes not then.

[cholla]

Now for converting the DVD VIDRO_TS.
I'm not sure that BD Rebuilder can do this from a .ISO file.
You may have to open the DVD.ISO in a virtual drive.
Or copy & paste the VIDEO_TS & AUDIO_TS folders into Windows.

BD Rebuilder is supposed to be able to do this conversion.

You did not post whether you will be using a BD50 DL or a BD25 SL disc.
You will need to make the settings for the one you plan to use.

ImgBurn should be able to burn to either BD disc.

[Alwyn]

You can write VIDEO_TS folders to a blu ray disc as a data disc.
You would play just the .vob files in the folder.
If you write a blu ray data disc I recommend leaving out the DVD menus in the VIDEO_TS folder.
If you are just archiving the Video_TS folders then leave in the menus.

I don't agree. If you have multiple chapters in a VIDEO_TS folder, the VOBs will not represent the start and stop points of those chapters; all the DVD contents are spread over 4 (or more) VOBs so the start of a VOB may not be the start of a chapter. In any case, you'll have no idea which VOB is which.

If you want to "archive" ie backup a perfect copy of a DVD, you'd be better off retaining the VIDEO_TS structure so all the menus work and you get quick access to the various videos/chapters on the "disk".

If you don't want to retain the menu structure, you're better off using DVDVOB2MPG to separate each video on the DVD into separate MPG video files for playback as needed, as I described at the bottom of post #3.

So because I ripped my DVD as an ISO folder, then it should be somewhat lossless or as good as the Disc theoretically.

No theory about it, your ISO file (or VIDEO_TS folder, for that matter) will be a bit by bit copy of the original disk/videos.

[bytor2112]

I believe things are getting a bit confused.
This is for only the DVD rip with IsoBuster to .ISO .
IsoBuster does a bit-by-bit rip if the DVD disc is undamaged.
So the .ISOs you have should be lossless if the DVD discs were undamaged.

Cholla, understood we are on the same page. I have step one done, as I have clean ISO rips for both archiving to my backup HDD and a starting point to possibly re-author to a Blu-ray via BD-R.
Thanks for the help. I will need to decide how important the menus are on my DVD and how i want the Blu-ray to play on my devices. MKV, M2TS or ISO, BDMV

[cholla]

@ Alwyn,
Information on this is limited as far as I can find. So I know more now from searching for information.
A BD player is going to ignore a VIDEO_TS folder period & this means any files inside it.
This is due to the firmware & maybe the blu ray laser.
Even if a BD player opened the files. The DVD menu structure is completely different that blu ray menu structure.
So it would not be read. The same for .ifo & .bup files.
If in the VIDEO_TS folder a BD player would not read the .vob files either.

A computer optical drive that reads both DVD & blu ray might be able to open & see the files.
Maybe play them as individual files but any DVD menu would not be interactive & would be played as just a video.

On a settop player I have both DVD only & a BD player that plays both DVDS & BDs.
When playing from an external HDD via the USB port menus confuse it.
DVDs without menus play as they should. There is a slight pause between .vobs.

Using a BD25 disc for archiving I would try to burn the .iso files as an archive.
They would not play but should be able to be copied & pasted to a computer HDD or SSD when needed.
Then played from the computer HDD or SDD with a media player like VLC.
Maybe they would play on a computer strait from the blu ray disc with VLC. IDK
Since the .ISOs already have menus these should also work ( if this does work).
The only way to remove menus from those .ISOs would be to create a new .iso without a menu. That should be unnecessary .

The only way to know for sure would be to test with BD discs.

[bytor2112]

Using a BD25 disc for archiving I would try to burn the .iso files as an archive.
They would not play but should be able to be copied & pasted to a computer HDD or SSD when needed.
Then played from the computer HDD or SDD with a media player like VLC.
Maybe they would play on a computer strait from the blu ray disc with VLC. IDK
Since the .ISOs already have menus these should also work ( if this does work).
The only way to remove menus from those .ISOs would be to create a new .iso without a menu. That should be unnecessary .

The only way to know for sure would be to test with BD discs.

Cholla, that makes sense due to the fact that archiving is my priority. I can always play around on how to preserve the menus on another disk.

[cholla]

@ bytor2112 ,
I tested BD Rebuilder .
It will convert DVD VIDEO_Ts to blu ray compliant folder.
What it won't do is convert the DVD menu to a blu ray menu.
No other software will either.
You can mount the DVD.ISOs you have in a Virtual Drive like Virtual Clone Drive.
BD Rebuilder can do the DVD VIDEO_TS conversion from it.

Now DVDFab Blu ray conversion program will let you build a custom menu for a blu ray.
At least that's what their website states.
I do not have it & I do not plan to buy it. So I can not test it.

Another route is to convert the DVD.ISOs to another format like .MP4 .
I have a BD25 disc with several movies in this format on it.
My settop Panasonic BD player has no problems playing the .MP4 files this way.

[cholla]

Cholla, that makes sense due to the fact that archiving is my priority. I can always play around on how to preserve the menus on another disk.[/QUOTE]
I would try to do this with ImgBurn.
You should be able to get 3 or 4 on a BD25.
More if they are smaller home DVDs

[bytor2112]

Cholla, thak you for the help. I will give this a try and update. My BD burner is on the way

[Alwyn]

If you write a blu ray data disc I recommend leaving out the DVD menus in the VIDEO_TS folder.

There is no point in leaving the menus out, in fact by doing so you destroy the whole DVD concept and will lose access to the start points of the movies and chapters (depending on how the DVD was authored).

A computer optical drive that reads both DVD & blu ray might be able to open & see the files.
Maybe play them as individual files but any DVD menu would not be interactive & would be played as just a video.

That is incorrect. VLC can play the VIDEO_TS folder as a proper DVD, complete with menu functionality, straight off the BD disk in the PC drive.

Another route is to convert the DVD.ISOs to another format like .MP4 .

This isn't desirable because you're converting already-average MPEGs (the VOB files) to MP4s, which will lessen the quality. The simplest method, if you want to do this, is simply to use something like DVDVOB2MPG to "convert" the VOBs to MPGs and play them on your TV off a USB stick (or through the network).

[cholla]

If you write a blu ray data disc I recommend leaving out the DVD menus in the VIDEO_TS folder.[/
There is no point in leaving the menus out, in fact by doing so you destroy the whole DVD concept and will lose access to the start points of the movies and chapters (depending on how the DVD was authored).

As I posted I have learned some since I posted the above. Leave the menus or not.

A computer optical drive that reads both DVD & blu ray might be able to open & see the files.
Maybe play them as individual files but any DVD menu would not be interactive & would be played as just a video.
That is incorrect. VLC can play the VIDEO_TS folder as a proper DVD, complete with menu functionality, straight off the BD disk in the PC drive.

Have you tested this ?
What I find is the DVD menu will not be interactive. I do not believe the chapter points will be either.
The start point would be selecting the first .vob with the movie on it. Not the menu.
I could burn a blu ray disc to verify this but I have to needlessly waste one.

Another route is to convert the DVD.ISOs to another format like .MP4 .
This isn't desirable because you're converting already-average MPEGs (the VOB files) to MP4s, which will lessen the quality. The simplest method, if you want to do this, is simply to use something like DVDVOB2MPG to "convert" the VOBs to MPGs and play them on your TV off a USB stick (or through the network).

I know no encoding if sticking with the mpg or mpeg2 .
If mpg suits a person for this it is fine with me.
I have also only tested .mp4s burned as a data disc. My settop BD player will play these but I have to select them individually.
The .mp4s I used for this were .mp4s when I got them.

I believe that bytor2112 has decided to try a blu ray data disc burned with the DVD.ISOs he has.
Using the blu ray disc to archive them.
These should be accessible with a computer.
They should play with VLC but if they do not they can be copied & pasted to the computers HDD or SSD.
Then played from there.
I do not believe a settop BD player would play them.
Myself I use external HDDs for archiving.
The blu ray discs I have done were just tests to see what would work.

[Alwyn]

Here we go: a BD with a VIDEO_TS folder from a DVD and two ISOs (ripped DVDs). I burnt the disk with IMGBurn, which asked if I wanted to make it a "DVD", because of the VIDEO_TS folder, which I declined. I also had to change a setting to allow it to burn the large ISOs.

Both the VIDEO_TS folder and both ISOs play, with full menu operation, on my PC with VLC.


[Attachment 93821 - Click to enlarge]

Nothing shows up on my Bluray player.

[cholla]

Thanks Alwyn,
This shows me the information I was reading was wrong about blu ray not being able to read a VIDEO_TS folder from a data disc.

@ bytor2112 follow Alwyn's method & burn the .ISOs you have.
I would give them names so you can see which one you want to play.
This should work for the archiving you want to do.
It should play on a computer with VLC & some of the other media players.

If you want to play one from a flash drive on a settop player:
Just open the .iso in a virtual drive.
Copy & Paste the VIDEO_TS to the flash drive.
This should play.
Some settop players do have a limited file type they will play.
Usually an older one.
My Panasonic settop BD player will play a movie from a VIDEO_TS folder on a flash drive. I have to select the first movie .vob.
It can not play from the active menu.
To do that I need to burn the VIDEO_TS folder to a DVD.
When I do this I also add an empty AUDIO_TS folder . This is usually not necessary. A left over from the old days.
The reason is if the DVD was ever played in an ancient DVD player.

[bytor2112]

Cholla, Alwyn, thank you for digging into this for me. I really appreciate it. I will update you when I finish this project. I like the idea of archiving to HDD and Blu-ray, then playing it back on a set-top with a flash drive. I saw a video where the guy said ripping is "60% of the time it works all the time" . I take that to mean there may be some basic rules, but in the end there is still a bit of trial and error. The great thing about this website is the discussion of these findings.

[Alwyn]

This shows me the information I was reading was wrong about blu ray not being able to read a VIDEO_TS folder from a data disc.

A bluray player can't read the VIDEO_TS folder, as I mentioned at the bottom of post #26. Nothing at all shows up on the disk.

[cholla]

This shows me the information I was reading was wrong about blu ray not being able to read a VIDEO_TS folder from a data disc.

A bluray player can't read the VIDEO_TS folder, as I mentioned at the bottom of post #26. Nothing at all shows up on the disk.

Maybe we both need to define this better.
What a settop blu ray player will not play:
A VIDEO_TS folder written to a blu ray disc the same way as it would be written to a DVD disc.
A VIDEO_TS folder written to a blu ray disc as a data disc.

What a computer will not play play with VLC:
A VIDEO_TS folder written to a blu ray disc the same way as it would be written to a DVD disc.

I do not believe VLC will play a blu ray data disc this way either but I do not have one written as the one Alwyn created to test with.
1. Open VLC
2.Select the Media pulldown & select "Open Disc..."
3.Select the Blu-ray dot & the "Disc device" the Play

I believe to play a VIDEO_TS folder from blu ray data disc.
1. Open VLC
2.Select the Media pulldown & select "Open Folder..."
3.Select the VIDEO_TS folder from blu ray data disc.
3.Play