VHS freezes during DV passthrough capture

[northridgemedia]

Hi everyone,

I'm trying to troubleshoot an intermittent freezing problem while digitizing VHS tapes, and I'd appreciate some advice on whether this is likely a sync/TBC issue or something else in my analog-to-DV workflow.

Current setup:

- VHS playback from a VCR/DVD combo
- Composite RCA video/audio out from the VCR
- The RCA cables connect to the camcorder through the camcorder's 3.5mm A/V input jack (headphone-style mini jack) using the appropriate RCA-to-3.5mm A/V cable
- Camcorder performs analog-to-DV passthrough
- DV/i.LINK output from camcorder via FireWire
- FireWire into an older iMac
- Capture using iMovie '11 (version 9.0.4)

I have tried this with two different camcorders as the analog-to-DV converter:

- Sony DCR-TRV460 Digital8
- Canon ZR60 MiniDV

The symptom is the same with both.

While the VHS is playing, the video displayed through/on the camcorder continues to play normally, but the video in the iMovie import window will occasionally freeze on one frame for a period of time. iMovie records the freeze exactly as it appears. The VHS tape and VCR continue running normally while this happens.

Importantly, the freezes are not repeatable at particular locations on the VHS tape. I can play the exact same section twice and it might freeze at different places, or the second capture may not freeze at all.

I have also tried another VCR with the same result.

One particularly useful test: if I play an actual Digital8 recording in the Sony DCR-TRV460 and import it through the same FireWire connection into the same iMac/iMovie setup, it does NOT freeze. Native Digital8 → FireWire capture works normally.

So at this point:

- Digital8 tape → Sony TRV460 → FireWire → iMovie = OK
- VHS → Sony TRV460 analog input → DV passthrough → FireWire → iMovie = random freezes
- VHS → Canon ZR60 analog input → DV passthrough → FireWire → iMovie = random freezes
- Different VCR → same problem

This makes me wonder whether small VHS timing/sync errors are occasionally causing the camcorders' analog-to-DV converters to lose lock, even though the analog picture itself appears to be playing normally.

I'm also considering a different experiment: instead of doing live DV passthrough to the computer, record the VHS analog input onto a Digital8 tape in the TRV460 first, then rewind that D8 tape and transfer it to the Mac over FireWire. Since direct Digital8 → FireWire capture is already stable, I'm curious whether recording to D8 first might avoid whatever is happening during live passthrough.

My eventual goal is archival capture followed by restoration/upscaling in Topaz Video AI, so maintaining as much of the original VHS information as reasonably possible is important.

A few things I'd particularly appreciate opinions on:

- Does this behavior sound like VHS time-base/sync instability, even though the freezes occur at different places on successive plays?
- Could the Sony/Canon analog-to-DV converters be losing sync and repeating/freeze-framing until they regain a valid signal?
- Is VHS → record to Digital8 → FireWire transfer worth trying instead of live analog-to-DV passthrough?
- Would recording to Digital8 first introduce any meaningful additional generation loss compared with the Sony doing the same DV encoding during live passthrough?
- If the goal is later restoration in Topaz, would you recommend abandoning DV altogether and capturing VHS through a different lossless/4:2:2 workflow?

Finally, I've seen the existing VideoHelp discussions about using Panasonic DVD recorders as passthrough devices, particularly the DMR-ES10, DMR-ES15 and DMR-ES25, along with discussions of the appropriate passthrough settings.

Given the problem I'm seeing, would it be simpler just to go with that established setup:
- VCR → Panasonic DMR-ES10/ES15/ES25 → Sony TRV460 → FireWire → iMovie

Would one of those Panasonic units likely stabilize the signal enough to prevent these freezes? If so, which of the ES10, ES15 or ES25 would you choose for this particular setup, and which passthrough settings should I use? Or, given what I've already tested, is there a better capture approach you would recommend before I buy additional hardware?

Thanks! P.S. I’m especially interested in figuring out where the frozen frames are actually being generated before replacing the capture setup or investing in additional equipment.

[rgr]

1. You can still check if there is any support for dropped frames in iMovie and how it is set up.
2. It is unlikely that a DVD burner passthrough will help anything, but it's always worth a try. However, this can only slightly cure the problem because something like this shouldn't have happened at all.
3. It will be best and fastest to use a PC with FireWire - it will work 100% correctly.
4. Using Topaz to tweak a VHS picture is a bad idea, and if you want to use their filter for that (DioneDV or whatever it's called) it's the worst possible idea.

[VWestlife]

Try using QuickTime 7.x Pro (registration code available online) to capture DV. Just make sure the recording quality is set to "Device Native".

[northridgemedia]

Thank you VWestlife. This is very helpful. My ancient iMac (24-inch, Early 2009, OS X El Capitan 10.11.6, CPU: 2.66 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, RAM: 8 GB) should be able to run QuickTime 7.x Pro.

[northridgemedia]

4. Using Topaz to tweak a VHS picture is a bad idea, and if you want to use their filter for that (DioneDV or whatever it's called) it's the worst possible idea.

I have actually had much success using Topaz Video AI to restore VHS tapes without looking too plastic and wax-like. Do not think it is worst possible at all. Helped me grow my media conversion business 10-fold.

[The_Doman]

This makes me wonder whether small VHS timing/sync errors are occasionally causing the camcorders' analog-to-DV converters to lose lock, even though the analog picture itself appears to be playing normally.

You could try for test to capture/passthrough from a stable analog source like DVD/TVbox if you have that available?
I always do this myself too when installing/testing capture devices.

- Could the Sony/Canon analog-to-DV converters be losing sync and repeating/freeze-framing until they regain a valid signal?

It is interesting the same problem occurs with the Sony and Canon.
Maybe they use the same internal analog/DV conversion circuit?

- Is VHS → record to Digital8 → FireWire transfer worth trying instead of live analog-to-DV passthrough?
- Would recording to Digital8 first introduce any meaningful additional generation loss compared with the Sony doing the same DV encoding during live passthrough?

You can certainly should try that option to see if it works?
But it takes more time, of course, which can become annoying if you have to convert many tapes.
Recording first to D8 tape instead of pass-through should give you exact the same results/data, even in LP mode.
Assuming of course there are no dropouts on the tape.
In the past I recorded many hours live TV to tape with my Sony D8-TRV120(PAL), also always in LP mode.
My Sony also has a TBC option but I never could notice any difference, i think it only works with playback/conversion of analog video8?

[rgr]

4. Using Topaz to tweak a VHS picture is a bad idea, and if you want to use their filter for that (DioneDV or whatever it's called) it's the worst possible idea.

I have actually had much success using Topaz Video AI to restore VHS tapes without looking too plastic and wax-like. Do not think it is worst possible at all. Helped me grow my media conversion business 10-fold.

The plastic look is a minor issue compared to the destructive effects of Topaz filters (when used on VHS). I feel sorry for the customers, but it’s nothing new that cheap junk sells well.

[Alwyn]

My Sony also has a TBC option but I never could notice any difference, i think it only works with playback/conversion of analog video8?

Correct. From a Sony TRV-330 manual for TBC and DNR: "When you play back tapes recorded in the Hi8/standard 8 system only."

[VWestlife]

Correct. From a Sony TRV-330 manual for TBC and DNR: "When you play back tapes recorded in the Hi8/standard 8 system only."

That just means the option has no effect when playing Digital8 recordings. But the TBC definitely does work when in passthrough mode.

[Alwyn]

But the TBC definitely does work when in passthrough mode.

I don't disbelieve you, but the test I did here indicates to me that it is weak to ineffective.

[northridgemedia]

Try using QuickTime 7.x Pro (registration code available online) to capture DV. Just make sure the recording quality is set to "Device Native".

. I looked online and found various registration codes.
[Attachment 93448 - Click to enlarge]

[Attachment 93449 - Click to enlarge]. Pulled from here -

https://www.scribd.com/document/652495723/Mac-Pc-Quicktime-7-Pro-Serial

. Does not seem to work. Advice?