Capturing with composite on certain VCRs, what should i output from the TBC

[Master Tape]

I've been capturing with S-Video cables pretty much since i've started this hobby, but now i've got a VCR which is SCART only, so no way to do S-Video. I got it for certain tapes that dont track well as apparently it's very good for that. So i'll input the composite to my TBC, but should i output from the TBC into my capture card with S-Video? Or just stick with composite throughout the line?

[lollo]

It depends on which element is performing better the Y/C separation between the TBC (unknown) and the capture card (unknown).

[Master Tape]

The TBC is a Datavideo TBC-3000 and capture card is ATI All In Wonder 9600 Pro. I do on occasion also use the Panasonic ES10 for flagging and screen tearing.

[lollo]

I never used the 3000, so I cannot comment on that. In any case, you better test both and decide on the field after a comparison what is better, rather than following blind suggestions.

Panasonic ES10 comb filter is generally OK.

P.S.: in addition to the quality of the filter, also consider that internally to the TBC there may be a conversion for processing, so a composite output and a separation later in the card is useless. One reason more to experiment

[cholla]

I have no experience with SCART so consider that.

The SCART to S-Video adapters did not get a good review.
Maybe there is a good one that an expert member can recommend.
I did find this one that might be good for you or someone else.
It is SCART to Component.
https://www.amazon.com/BITFUNX-RGBS-SCART-Component-Adapter/dp/B0FSKMJGXK

[The_Doman]

I've been capturing with S-Video cables pretty much since i've started this hobby, but now i've got a VCR which is SCART only, so no way to do S-Video.

Well it depends, there are also (S-VHS) VCR's with S-Video which only have SCART.
See topic:
S-Video checkerboard pattern (SCART to S-Video)
There is no point in using a SCART to S-Video adapter/cable with a regular VHS VCR!

The TBC is a Datavideo TBC-3000 and capture card is ATI All In Wonder 9600 Pro. I do on occasion also use the Panasonic ES10 for flagging and screen tearing.

I don't know how good the Datavideo TBC-3000/ATI All In Wonder are with handling composite video but here all my composite VCR's always go through one of my Panasonic ES10 or EHXX for stabilization and composite to S-Video conversion.
See also comments in this topic:
Good VCRs with auto tracking

Now with good working S-VHS machines getting more and more difficult/expensive to find/get it is often much more feasible and flexible to use the DVD pass-thru option with a good working regular VCR.

[The_Doman]

I have no experience with SCART so consider that.
The SCART to S-Video adapters did not get a good review.
Maybe there is a good one that an expert member can recommend.
I did find this one that might be good for you or someone else.
It is SCART to Component.
https://www.amazon.com/BITFUNX-RGBS-SCART-Component-Adapter/dp/B0FSKMJGXK

Those type of (RGB)SCART to component converters will only work with devices which support RGB on the SCART output like game consoles, sat/cable decoders, DVD/HDD recorders.
No (consumer) VCR has RGB output.

SCART to S-Video or Composite (RCA)

There are almost no VCR's which output a RGB signal!
With a normal VCR there is only a composite signal available on the SCART connector.
Most newer (european) S-VHS VCR's have the option to switch between composite or S-Video on the scart connector.

Scart adapter boxes or cables only route the signal pins to the different connectors, they don't convert the signal!
If you try to use the S-Video input with a normal VCR when there is no S-Video available then you will indeed get a black/white picture because the S-Video and Composite signal share some pins on the SCART connector.

Here is a pin layout of the SCART connector:
http://pinouts.ru/data/Scart_pinout.shtml

Just use the composite connection of your capture card with the SCART to RCA lead.
That should work.

Black and white color on svideo

What VCR are you using?
The S-Video connection on those SCART adapters can only work correctly if there is a S-Video signal available on the SCART, they not convert composite to S-Video.
Regular VHS players not have S-Video on the SCART connector, only composite video.
This then will indeed give you a B/W image when using the S-Video connection.

If it IS a S-VHS VCR you have to specifically configure the SCART for composite or S-Video or use the dedicated S-Video connector when available.

[lollo]

No (consumer) VCR has RGB output.

Yes, in european VCRs, the SCART connector can vehicle Composite signal only (VHS VCR) or Y/C / Composite signal (S-VHS VCR).

@cholla, please stop to add useless noise, you do not have to always post something in every thread!

[Master Tape]

I was going to use my SCART adapter for the composite, but would using something like this be better?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Switchable-SCART-Audio-Video-Cable/dp/B0DTKTD58N

[lollo]

Better than what? To connect the SCART output of your VCR to the input of your Datavideo TBC (yellow composite input) you need that, yes. Not sure how you manage the audio connection, if bypassing the TBC or not. Be sure to buy a good quality cable!

[The_Doman]

I was going to use my SCART adapter for the composite, but would using something like this be better?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/S witchable-SCART-Audio-Video-Cable/dp/B0DTKTD58N

If you use decent cables and SCART adapter it should not make noticeable difference.
But the problem is many of those A/V cables are of low quality and can pick up interference easily.
Specially audio hum/interference from the video signal I experienced myself quite a few times.
Because of that I tend to prefer using sturdy SCART adapters and (hopefully) good A/V cables.
I always pick those up from local thrift/recycle stores when is see a good/looking interesting one.
Also thrift stores are good places to find all sorts of old (heavy/"monster") A/V cables/adapters .

I use adapters similar looking like this, it is so heavy/sturdy I support it extra so it will not fall out/wreck my SCART sockets.

[Attachment 93234 - Click to enlarge]

Also while we are on this subject, here is an interesting look inside some of those typical A/V cables:
YouTube: Mr Carlson's Lab - The Best Cable - Wire For Audio? Let's Look Closer!

[Master Tape]

I was going to use my SCART adapter for the composite, but would using something like this be better?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/S witchable-SCART-Audio-Video-Cable/dp/B0DTKTD58N

If you use decent cables and SCART adapter it should not make noticeable difference.
But the problem is many of those A/V cables are of low quality and can pick up interference easily.
Specially audio hum/interference from the video signal I experienced myself quite a few times.
Because of that I tend to prefer using sturdy SCART adapters and (hopefully) good A/V cables.
I always pick those up from local thrift/recycle stores when is see a good/looking interesting one.
Also thrift stores are good places to find all sorts of old (heavy/"monster") A/V cables/adapters .

I use adapters similar looking like this, it is so heavy/sturdy I support it extra so it will not fall out/wreck my SCART sockets.

[Attachment 93234 - Click to enlarge]

Also while we are on this subject, here is an interesting look inside some of those typical A/V cables:
YouTube: Mr Carlson's Lab - The Best Cable - Wire For Audio? Let's Look Closer!

I was thinking the same. I could get short ones from Blue Jean Cables that are like 1ft long with minimal interference, probably do a better job.

In terms of adapters, this is the only sturdy looking one i could see on Amazon.


[Attachment 93271 - Click to enlarge]

I've been capturing with S-Video cables pretty much since i've started this hobby, but now i've got a VCR which is SCART only, so no way to do S-Video.

Well it depends, there are also (S-VHS) VCR's with S-Video which only have SCART.
See topic:
S-Video checkerboard pattern (SCART to S-Video)
There is no point in using a SCART to S-Video adapter/cable with a regular VHS VCR!

I know you get some normal VCR's that can output an S-Video signal, i dont think mines does though so probably wouldn't get a signal. I do wish my TBC had a SCART port then i could just do SCART to SCART without having to use adapters.

Better than what? To connect the SCART output of your VCR to the input of your Datavideo TBC (yellow composite input) you need that, yes. Not sure how you manage the audio connection, if bypassing the TBC or not. Be sure to buy a good quality cable!

Better than my generic SCART adapter. For audio, i just capture my audio cables directly into my sound card. They are excellent thick cables. Gives me full uncompressed PCM sound!

[lollo]

Better than my generic SCART adapter. For audio, i just capture my audio cables directly into my sound card. They are excellent thick cables. Gives me full uncompressed PCM sound!

In generale, but only in general, SCART connectors and cables are lower quality than dedicated RCA or S-Video connectors and cables. But if your only output is a SCART you have no choice.

The quality of audio cables have no relation with compressed/uncompressed sound. Of course, they must be good quality as well.

[Sharc]

@Master Tape: I didn't read through all the posts so it may have been said already, but just in case when you route your SCART Composite video via a DVD recorder in passthrough (or TBC) in order to stabilize the picture and perform an effective Y/C separation, use a high quality = double screened S-Video cable from the DVD recoder to the S-Video capture card. Otherwise you spoil the benefit of the Y/C separation. All these thin S-Video cables which you find everywhere for a few $ are usually crap. The Y and the C wires must be individually screened (picture attached), otherwise the cable produces Y<-> C spillover with corresponding artifacts like dotcrawl, "ants" and rainbows, sometimes misinterpreted as originating from "external interference".

[The_Doman]

I was thinking the same. I could get short ones from Blue Jean Cables that are like 1ft long with minimal interference, probably do a better job.

In terms of adapters, this is the only sturdy looking one i could see on Amazon.


[Attachment 93271 - Click to enlarge]

As mentioned I have a whole bag of switchable SCART adapters.
I never did deep thorough testing but i could not notice any difference really, but with some "flimsy" adapters the pins sometimes can come loose easily when plug/unplugging.
Also the signal path in those adapters is very short compared to attached cables?
The "sturdy" adapter was just good looking, does not really say much.
The HAMA german brand is wel known for basic consumer electronic accessories so the adapter will be OK i think.
If you already use good cables with your adapter I doubt you will be able to notice a difference, if there is any?
Best to use good video source like dvd/digital decoder to compare/verify.

I know you get some normal VCR's that can output an S-Video signal, i don't think mines does though so probably wouldn't get a signal.

Think? you can look up the model/specs if you want to be sure?
Again, regular VHS with S-Video out is total exotic/non existent, even with VHS/DVD combo's mostly the S-Video works only for the DVD part.

Better than my generic SCART adapter. For audio, i just capture my audio cables directly into my sound card. They are excellent thick cables. Gives me full uncompressed PCM sound!

If it works without A/V sync problems, why not.

[rgr]

I've been capturing with S-Video cables pretty much since i've started this hobby, but now i've got a VCR which is SCART only, so no way to do S-Video. I got it for certain tapes that dont track well as apparently it's very good for that. So i'll input the composite to my TBC, but should i output from the TBC into my capture card with S-Video? Or just stick with composite throughout the line?

Output from S-Video of course.

[rgr]

Better than what? To connect the SCART output of your VCR to the input of your Datavideo TBC (yellow composite input) you need that, yes. Not sure how you manage the audio connection, if bypassing the TBC or not. Be sure to buy a good quality cable!

Better than my generic SCART adapter. For audio, i just capture my audio cables directly into my sound card. They are excellent thick cables. Gives me full uncompressed PCM sound!

This will probably introduce some delay (audible or not). First check on the traditional connection (at the beginning of the tape and after 4 hours), then the same on the bypass.
You will know what correction to make.

With every setup you should get PCM uncompressed - that's the basic format.

[Master Tape]

@Master Tape: I didn't read through all the posts so it may have been said already, but just in case when you route your SCART Composite video via a DVD recorder in passthrough (or TBC) in order to stabilize the picture and perform an effective Y/C separation, use a high quality = double screened S-Video cable from the DVD recoder to the S-Video capture card. Otherwise you spoil the benefit of the Y/C separation. All these thin S-Video cables which you find everywhere for a few $ are usually crap. The Y and the C wires must be individually screened (picture attached), otherwise the cable produces Y<-> C spillover with corresponding artifacts like dotcrawl, "ants" and rainbows, sometimes misinterpreted as originating from "external interference".

I recently upgraded all my old S-Video cables with ones from Blue Jean which were quite expensive. Not had the chance to test them out properly and see how they fair, but i was having issues with dot crawl and rainbows for sure, so hope these new ones get rid of them.

I'll need to use the DVD recorder for my Sharp VCR (composite only) since it doesn't have a TBC built in. I should note i have to output the DVD recorder with an additional SCART adapter as it has a pumping brights problem via the S-Video and Composite output ports, so can only be bypassed by going via the SCART.

For extra noisy tapes, i wonder if going composite all the way will help blend and smooth the noise better, as i do find certain S-Video captures can bring out and sharpen all the unwanted noise and artfiacts. Very apparent on LP recordings.

As mentioned I have a whole bag of switchable SCART adapters.
I never did deep thorough testing but i could not notice any difference really, but with some "flimsy" adapters the pins sometimes can come loose easily when plug/unplugging.
Also the signal path in those adapters is very short compared to attached cables?
The "sturdy" adapter was just good looking, does not really say much.
The HAMA german brand is wel known for basic consumer electronic accessories so the adapter will be OK i think.
If you already use good cables with your adapter I doubt you will be able to notice a difference, if there is any?
Best to use good video source like dvd/digital decoder to compare/verify.

I might just pick up the one for now then, as my other adapters are the cheapo brandless ones, so better shielding and stability will help minimize any noise or interference. I did notice my current one wasnt completely up straight when in the SCART port, but could just be the cable weighing it down as it's a short one.

Better than what? To connect the SCART output of your VCR to the input of your Datavideo TBC (yellow composite input) you need that, yes. Not sure how you manage the audio connection, if bypassing the TBC or not. Be sure to buy a good quality cable!

Better than my generic SCART adapter. For audio, i just capture my audio cables directly into my sound card. They are excellent thick cables. Gives me full uncompressed PCM sound!

This will probably introduce some delay (audible or not). First check on the traditional connection (at the beginning of the tape and after 4 hours), then the same on the bypass.
You will know what correction to make.

With every setup you should get PCM uncompressed - that's the basic format.

I sometimes notice the sound is ever so slightly out of sync, so have to adjust it in post. My sound card is connected to my capture card, so it syncs up with the capture fine usually. Would hooking up the audio cables to the TBC alongside the video cables help keep the sync right down to the ms?

[rgr]

I recently upgraded all my old S-Video cables with ones from Blue Jean which were quite expensive. Not had the chance to test them out properly and see how they fair, but i was having issues with dot crawl and rainbows for sure, so hope these new ones get rid of them.

If you want to test them, record a blue screen from the camera/VCR. They are given by JVC, Sony, probably many others. Then enhance the image (contrast). You should have a uniform noise.

I sometimes notice the sound is ever so slightly out of sync, so have to adjust it in post. My sound card is connected to my capture card, so it syncs up with the capture fine usually. Would hooking up the audio cables to the TBC alongside the video cables help keep the sync right down to the ms?

You won't know unless you test the captures at random times, e.g. in VirtualDub, which gives a nice idea of the audio track.
There you can combine two tracks using AviSynth to match video frames and compare. It should look like this.
https://i.imgur.com/JCKvy41.png

Undoubtedly, a connection via TBC will be a better solution in terms of synchronization (more reliable).