VideoReDo TVSuite & Professional - General Discussion Thread

[Marayong]

I've been away on holidays, just catching up on the latest batch of posts.

Tying all the recent posts back to VFRD (for the moderators), the discussion between Mozartman & bridgy underlines what is IMO the single biggest strength of VRD and one which continues to be the case even tho' development stopped years ago. And that is that VRD was designed to meet a wide range of needs. IMO none of the alternative software does this. Alternative software may be good at a few things, maybe even better than VRD, but they only do those few things. For example, SMC cuts as well as VRD, if not better, but that's all it (currently) does. No format changes, no resolution changes, no cropping etc etc etc. Or TMPGEnc where you have to buy multiple products to be able to do many (but not all) of the things you can do in VRD. And yes, VRD was originally designed for editing TV broadcasts, but it has expanded far from that, as evidence by Bridgy's use with camera video editing and that the latest versions had dropped "tv suite" from the software name.

All of this means that if your needs are specific with only a few editing tasks, then there are plenty of alternatives for VRD ... but if your needs are widespread such as editing videos from different sources, changing resolution/framesize/cropping etc (as is my case), then at this stage there are no alternatives ... unless you wish to buy commercial software with a $10K+ licence.

Changing the resolution, format etc with VRD does mean a full recode, but that's not really the point .. the point is that VRD has the capability to do these things, if needed. For example, with VRD you can take two (or more) videos with different frame sizes and after several operations join them into one video that plays seamlessly - something I have done with VRD. And cutting out unwanted bits of of the videos in the process.

Bridgy, you wrote: "This is my biggest bug with Pegasys Software company, you buy a given tool and you pay a fee that gives you a lifetime license to use that version only, if you want to upgrade to their next Build, you have to pay for the upgrade, and you get a small discount for your valued continual use of their software."

That's not really all that uncommon. VRD was the same You bought v5 and were entitled to minor updates, but if you wanted v6 you had to buy a new licence. Actually, most software licencing works this way.

[noemi7]

For example, SMC cuts as well as VRD, if not better, but that's all it (currently) does. No format changes, no resolution changes, no cropping etc etc etc.

You repeat misleading info that Smart Media Cutter cannot change video format (aka container). It does: just change the extension of the exported file. It won't re-encode if the container accepts the codec, i.e. ts, m2ts, mkv, mp4, mov. It can re-encode if not.

Yes, SMC doesn't have option to crop nor to change the resolution. I'm among those who do NOT need it as the most important feature is frame accurate and lossless cutting. I'm registered user of VRD since 2010 but I've never considered it as a (good) video converter as it gives the user minimal parameters to set. VRD is good for somebody who has no clue how to use ffmpeg, x264, and x265, no mention available bunch of interfaces for these encoders.

Please consider that some people don't like to pay surplus for options which are in fact limited toys, and can be done better in other programs.

Anyway, skeskinen perhaps will add other bells to SMC as he is very kind and open for input.

[Marayong]

Changing the container is NOT changing the file format. Changing the extension of a pdf to txt does not mean the file is then a text file, it is instead a corrupted and basically unopenable file. If a device does not have the codecs to play a mov, then changing the file extension ain't going to make it playable. That's video kindergarten.

As for VRD converting file formats, if you want non default parameters, they are there, you just have to dig for them.

And as for paying surplus .. you are kidding? A lifetime subscription for VRD was dirt cheap. SMC does a fraction of what VRD does and is (was) the same price .. by that criteria, which would be the over charged one?

[noemi7]

Changing the container is NOT changing the file format. Changing the extension of a pdf to txt does not mean the file is then a text file, it is instead a corrupted and basically unopenable file.

Have you checked it? I saved dozens of files this way. If they were corrupted they could not be opened in mkvtoolnix, mp4box, and obviously by video players. In fact some have already been shared with hundreds of people, and nobody reported any issue. BTW: I'm SMC beta (pre-release) tester.

[Bridgy]

You repeat misleading info that Smart Media Cutter cannot change video format (aka container). It does: just change the extension of the exported file. It won't re-encode if the container accepts the codec, i.e. ts, m2ts, mkv, mp4, mov. It can re-encode if not.

What is it that you just don't seem to understand, you keep blabbing on with the same old stuff and your just digging yourself into a deeper hole.

Ok so let's revisit this from another angle, a Container (.MP4, .MKS etc etc) is kind of like a video Format, but it is just a box that contains the video and audio data, the Video Codec itself is not changed so when you change the container of course the video file will not be Recoded.

Where i come from, and maybe this applies to others too, when i refer to a video Format i refer to the Codec, you can call it whatever else you like.

You can change an AVC .MP4 file to a AVC .MKV and it won't recode it, if you want to go from AVC to HEVC regardless of the Container, you need to do a full recode.

SMC has 2 export modes.

1: Smart Cut: which exports back to the same as the source file, no recode.

2: Full Recode: this will do a full recode when changing from one Codec to Another (HEVC, AVC, AV1, and VP9) but it can only do it at the same resolution and framerate as the imported Source File.

SMC cannot export to any other Codec/Format at a lower or higher resolution, nor can it crop either.

VRD can do all of these functions.

Yes, SMC doesn't have option to crop nor to change the resolution. I'm among those who do NOT need it as the most important feature is frame accurate and lossless cutting.

Haha, what a joke, you was the one who famously claimed that SMC will be the next VRD and even better, but you will only be right when SMC can replicate every single feature that VRD can do, something that the Developer hopes to achieve at some point in the future, and now that i have been testing my own files for him, so far SMC is going along very nicely, and what i CAN DO right now it does it extremely well, and i am very happy with it so far, BUT i still need to use VRD to add my Titles and export to other Formats (sorry Codecs) and to resize when i need to.

I'm registered user of VRD since 2010 but I've never considered it as a (good) video converter as it gives the user minimal parameters to set. VRD is good for somebody who has no clue how to use ffmpeg, x264, and x265, no mention available bunch of interfaces for these encoders.

You should be ashamed of being a registered user of VRD to sprout this rubbish, you have no idea or clue how Dan Rosen created VRD and how it even works, and let me tell you now that Dan Rosen was the one who invented and implemented his Intelligent Recode Feature, and was the first to do Smart Render as well, everyone else since then has copied these features, some have even failed.

You need to learn how to use VRD properly before you sprout this nonsense.

Please consider that some people don't like to pay surplus for options which are in fact limited toys, and can be done better in other programs.

Please do us the courtesy of giving us some examples of software that you know for a fact can do stuff better than VRD, i refer to Encoding Video, Frame Accurate Cutting, Smart Rendering, and Intelligent Recoding, where you just need to select or create a custom export profile and let VRD do everything automatically.

Anyway, skeskinen perhaps will add other bells to SMC as he is very kind and open for input.

I certainly hope that he is not listening to anything that you have had to say, otherwise SMC will simply fail.

I love SMC for what it can do so far, it smashes any other software that i have used for doing Frame Accurate Smart Cutting and Smart Rendering of my 4k HEVC video files, even better than my VRD Pro, and it does a great job at Recoding my 4k HEVC files to AVC, VP9, and AV1 (in my testing) at the same 4k resolution.

That is why i use SMC now to do all my Cutting and Smart rendering back to 4k HEVC, and i use VRD for titles and exporting to other Codecs and Resizing.

[Bridgy]

Have you checked it? I saved dozens of files this way. If they were corrupted they could not be opened in mkvtoolnix, mp4box, and obviously by video players. In fact some have already been shared with hundreds of people, and nobody reported any issue. [COLOR="red"]

What don't you understand, you are talking about a CONTAINER not the dam CODEC.

BTW: I'm SMC beta (pre-release) tester.

You are no more a Beta Tester than anyone else is, others, including me, are using SMC version 2.3.3 right now, and i am in constant contact with the Developer offering my advice to him about new features and changes that he has made, so does that make me a Beta Tester too, i just offered my help especially given that i record my videos in 4k/60p HEVC Format, and VRD had not completed full support for this format when Dan Rosen passed away.

[noemi7]

You should be ashamed of being a registered user of VRD to sprout this rubbish, you have no idea or clue how Dan Rosen created VRD and how it even works, and let me tell you now that Dan Rosen was the one who invented and implemented his Intelligent Recode Feature, and was the first to do Smart Render as well, everyone else since then has copied these features, some have even failed.

I already got that you know everything better, and for unknown reason I'm your special target. Enough, stop these nonsense lectures and ad personam comments.

Yes, VRD was the first one which enabled lossless and frame accurate cutting of h264 therefore I bought it. However, there were number of applications which handled mpeg in similar way.

Intelligent Recode / Smart Render works within the same codec and resolution, and it concerns cutting the video - re-encoding around cut frames only. Obviously, change any of the two, and full re-encode will be required, and there is no any "intelligent" or "smart" way for the process. You haven't proven anything.

[Bridgy]

I already got that you know everything better, and for unknown reason I'm your special target.

You are a target for anyone in here because of your ill informed comments, maybe i am the only one who is willing to call you out when you post something that is wrong.

Yes, VRD was the first one which enabled lossless and frame accurate cutting of h264 therefore I bought it. However, there were number of applications which handled mpeg in similar way.

Yes others can now do frame accurate cutting and Smart Rendering, no other software does Intelligent Recode that VRD uses.

Intelligent Recode / Smart Render works within the same codec and resolution, and it concerns cutting the video - re-encoding around cut frames only. Obviously, change any of the two, and full re-encode will be required, and there is no any "intelligent" or "smart" way for the process. You haven't proven anything.

The Intelligent Recode feature in VRD refers to the Full Recode of video files to other Codecs and/or Resolutions where you convert your edited file from one to another (this is not referring to just changing containers)

Smart Render is the process of cutting and exporting back to the same format as the source file.

This is a screenshot of a 4k/60p HEVC File (Bitrate is 60.9Mbps) Exporting to 1080/60p AVC format using the Intelligent Recode feature in VRD.

I created the export profile with 1080/60p AVC as my resolution and MP4 as the container (same as source file) and i leave the Audio as it is to copy, and the great thing with using Intelligent Recode is that i never had to set the Export Video Bitrate (quality) because Dan Rosen already built this into VRD using some method to automatically export the File to the correct Bitrate for the set Codec and resolution.

In this export, the 1080/60p AVC file ended up at 25Mbps.


[Attachment 91999 - Click to enlarge]

[noemi7]

See you don't even know what the Intelligent Recode feature is, nor understand how Dan Rosen set this up in VRD to work the way it does, so stop going on about it, Intelligent Feature is used for full recode to other Codecs and for resizing, which requires recoding too.

You have no clue what you are writing about. Read a bit about how works video encoding. I reply to your fantasies last time, leaving info from other programmer:

The framerate and resolution changes you're making will force a recode anyway. So the only difference between intelligent and force recode is whether you want to manually set the bitrate or have us set it for you using our quality factor calculation.

Source: https://www.tivocommunity.com/threads/editing-a-tivo-file-with-videoredo-question.5768...#post-12021110

[Bridgy]

The framerate and resolution changes you're making will force a recode anyway. So the only difference between intelligent and force recode is whether you want to manually set the bitrate or have us set it for you using our quality factor calculation.

Source: https://www.tivocommunity.com/threads/editing-a-tivo-file-with-videoredo-question.5768...#post-12021110[/QUOTE]

So i was correct mate, using Intelligent Recode in VRD means that i don't need to set an export Video Quality Bitrate manually like in a Force Recode, Intelligent Recode uses what Dan called a Quality Factor Calculation which is what i basically mentioned in my previous post (the bit in red text)

Intelligent Recode still does a full Recode of your file if changing Codec and/or resolution, just like a Force Recode does, a Force Recode requires you to manually set your target Video quallity Bitrate.

Looks like you should go back to using SMC because if you are happy using SMC you obviously don't use the full features of VRD anyway, if you did then you would already know that SMC is nowhere near VRD yet as far as features go, but he is slowly getting there.