Noise bars playing VHS-C tapes with adapter on VCR (audio ok)

[fpneves]

Hi there,

I'm playing VHS-C tapes with a JVC adapter C-P6U in two VCRs:
JVC HR-S5800E (SVHS VCR)
LG RC68223 (VHS VCR)

So far I haven't had any issues but last weekend, when i play any VHS-C tape on JVC VCR i get noise bars and the audio is ok.
I play the same VHS-C tapes on LG VCR without issues, so i presume the adapter is ok.
Regular VHS tapes are playing well in both VCRs, so i presume the video heads in JVC VCR are ok.

What could be happening ?
I already play around wih manual tracking in JVC VCR without success.
Unfortunately, I have some SVHS-C tapes that I can only play on JVC VCR.

Please help.

Thanks

[timtape]

Can you upload to the forum some video or still examples? Does the problem VHS-C come up as SP or LP on the VCR's front panel display? LP recordings use different heads to SP and tape-to -head alignment is more critical than on SP recordings. So if there is an alignment problem it's more likely to be on LP recordings.

[themaster1]

bad alignment of the tape during recording (maybe a shock moved (unscrewed) one of the two guides (P2/P3) hence this result now. If manual tracking don't solve it the only other option is messing with the 2 guides (advanced users only)

[fpneves]

Hi there and thsnk you for your help.

I only had the opportunity to return to this issue last weekend.

Over the last weekend I did some more accurate tests.

I think i have 2 different issues:

1) "LP recordings issue"
LG RC68223 (VHS VCR)
Plays well VHSC SP and LP recordings, but some LP recordings without noise and others have some intermitent noise.
picture VHSC.LP.LG.

[Attachment 91563 - Click to enlarge]
SP recordings without noise.
picture VHSC.SP.LG.

[Attachment 91564 - Click to enlarge]

2) "horizontal jailbars issue"
JVC HR-S5800E (SVHS VCR)
Plays well regular VHS SP and LP recordings without issues (LP not so well).
Have horizontal jailbars playing both VHSC SP and LP recordings; it seems the tape is playing at a diferent speed.
picture VHSC.SP.JVC

[Attachment 91567 - Click to enlarge]
picture VHSC.LP.JVC

[Attachment 91568 - Click to enlarge]
It even seems to me that this VCR dont have noise in the LP recordings that are appearing in the LG VCR (LP recordings issue).

obs.
always used the same adapter JVC C-P6U in the two VCRs
obs.
20 days ago, JVC VCR played well a VHSC LP recording tape and today i get the "horizontal jailbars issue".

What i can do ?

Please help.

Thanks

[themaster1]

Clean the audio/control head (at the right side of the drum) with a qtip + alcohol IPA. The control track read infos for speed detection (SP/LP) maybe it's just that as you say it was working before

[fpneves]

Hi again,

I cleaned it in the spot indicated in the image and no luck.

[Attachment 91586 - Click to enlarge]
Meanwhile, i found a regular SVHS tape recorded in VHS LP mode, and sometimes it plays well, other times it gives an image like that of VHSC tapes !!!!
Did I clean it incorrectly, or is there a problem with the control audio/head?

Thank you.

[davexnet]

The control head is right at the bottom; you should be able to see it if you look close.

Often times small variations in the tape tension can be helped by running the tape back and forth from start to end
once or twice.

Also open the flap in affected areas and look for tape damage

[fpneves]

I've already gone back and forth several times with the VHSC tapes.
The problem occurs with all VHSC tapes in SP or LP mode i tried on the JVC VCR (near 20 tapes).

Now I'm surprised that the same problem is happening on a particular regular VHS LP tape, but intermittently.

Thanks

[themaster1]

I've already gone back and forth several times with the VHSC tapes.
The problem occurs with all VHSC tapes in SP or LP mode i tried on the JVC VCR (near 20 tapes).

So it's a wrap, the camcorder was misaligned from the get go

[fpneves]

But all VHSC tapes are playing well (except some noise in some LP recordings) in LG VCR.

And the VHSC tapes i tried 20 days ago also played well in JVC VCR.

And i found a regular VHS (LP recording) tape with the some issue of the VHSC tapes playing in JVC VCR ?!?!?!

Thanks

[fpneves]

Hi again,

Important developements on this issue.

I played some commercial regular VHS tapes (SP recordings) on JVC VCR and i get a similar image as i get with VHS-C tapes.

[Attachment 91658 - Click to enlarge]

[Attachment 91659 - Click to enlarge]
They played ok on LG VCR.

However, my regular VHS home recordings are playing ok on JVC VCR.

So i think this is nothing to do with the tapes, this is a JVC VCR issue.

I already used a head cleaner tape without success.

[Attachment 91660 - Click to enlarge]

What i can do now ?


Thanks.

[timtape]

The LG appears to be the PAL version. I assume the JVC is also as are your tapes. Some PAL tapes could be recorded in a rare, slower speed even than LP, called SLP/EP. (SLP/EP was more common in NTSC). Perhaps some of your tapes are recorded in SLP/EP but the JVC is not designed to play them. This info should be in the VCR owners manuals.

[fpneves]

The LG appears to be the PAL version. I assume the JVC is also as are your tapes. Some PAL tapes could be recorded in a rare, slower speed even than LP, called SLP/EP. (SLP/EP was more common in NTSC). Perhaps some of your tapes are recorded in SLP/EP but the JVC is not designed to play them. This info should be in the VCR owners manuals.

The VHS-C tapes were recorded on a JVC SVHS GR-SX9 (SP and LP recordings).
I still have the camera with me but unfortunately don't work any more.

Thanks

[timtape]

The LG appears to be the PAL version. I assume the JVC is also as are your tapes. Some PAL tapes could be recorded in a rare, slower speed even than LP, called SLP/EP. (SLP/EP was more common in NTSC). Perhaps some of your tapes are recorded in SLP/EP but the JVC is not designed to play them. This info should be in the VCR owners manuals.

The VHS-C tapes were recorded on a JVC SVHS GR-SX9 (SP and LP recordings).
I still have the camera with me but unfortunately don't work any more.

Thanks

OK. Are you sure as per the owner's manual that this camera could not record in SLP/EP, only SP and LP? I thought I read somewhere that Panasonic were the main manufacturer who put out some SLP/EP cameras and decks. Not sure about JVC.

If the relevent tape:

1. plays as if it is LP (VCR indicator says LP)

2: the picture and sound are obviously too fast, and

3. there are segmented noise bands,

maybe the tape was recorded at SLP/EP speed but the VCR is only able to play it at the faster LP speed, as if playing it in fast forward cue mode.

But again the owner's manual should state what the camera and your JVC deck were/are capable of in terms of SP, LP, SLP/EP capabilities.

[fpneves]

Hi,

I can't find the camera manual, but I'm almost certain that both the JVC camera and the JVC VCR only have SP and LP as recording modes (no buttons for SLP/EP).

In any case, I think the problem now is with the JVC VCR, because even regular VHS tapes have noise bars that I can't remove with the tracking buttons.

[Attachment 91679 - Click to enlarge]

The same regular VHS tapes are playing well on LG VCR.

It's possible I might also have problems with the VHS-C tapes, but first I need to solve the issue in JVC VCR meanwhile I found.

Any help ?

Thanks

[fpneves]

.... capture
https://youtu.be/f8UG-3Udi_w

[timtape]

Thanks for the upload. So to clarify, this is the JVC VCR playing regular SP tapes which play fine on the LG? The playback speed seems correct, but then it should be because SP is the easiest of all for a VCR to play. Yes the JVC video playback seems to be the problem. Not sure what caused it.

[fpneves]

.... capture
https://youtu.be/f8UG-3Udi_w

yes, this is the JVC VCR playing a regular SP tape (a commercial one) which play fine on the LG VCR.
all regular SP commercial tapes i played on JVC VCR, have this behavior.

however my home recordings are playing ok on the JVC VCR !!!


Thanks

[themaster1]

VHSC tape recorded with massive alignment (tracking) error:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgIyLI-bPFA&t=554s

[fpneves]

VHSC tape recorded with massive alignment (tracking) error:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgIyLI-bPFA&t=554s

Hi,

Thank you for your help.

This thread was opened thinking I had problems playing VHSC tapes.
However, as I tested more tapes, including regular VHS tapes, I found that regardless of whether or not I have problems with VHSCs, I also have problems with the JVC VCR alignment, since the commercial VHS tapes i play show noise bars also.
This problem started happening 20 days ago after I started messing with the + / - tracking buttons.
But now, messing with the + /- tracking buttons doesn't correct the problem.

What could have happened ?
Is there anything simple I can do ? (i already played tape head cleanner).
I'm afraid to mess up with the guides and create a bigger problem.

Thanks

[timtape]

Picture problems only with commercial VHS tapes can be associated with copy protection signals recorded on the tapes, which are designed to distort the pictures, but I'm not an expert on this. As a tech the first thing I would do is inspect the VCR tape path and manually clean it as opposed to just using a cleaning cassette, even a good "wet" type which often cannot fully clean, but I understand many owners may lack the experience to perform this cleaning manually.

The picture problems in the misaligned tape in the video99 example look quite different to the banded pattern in your examples and being VHSC was probably not a commercial recording anyway.