Green bar ontop Sony EV-S9000E PAL

[Dutchsteammachine]

I recently got myself a Sony EV-S9000E PAL to capture Hi8 tapes, because playback on my Sony CCD-VX1E has vertical colour line issues.

But have ran into this issue where often there is a green bar at the top of the frame. Sometimes it is there, it seems to disappear and reappear between scenes/when the camera was stop and started during recording. Also tried with a tape from someone else and exact same issue. Turning on the TBC function makes the bar smaller but it is still there. And I prefer to use my external TBC.

See attachments. NR/TBC turned off, EDIT set to ON and straight into my capture card.

Looked inside after removing top cover and caps that I could see all look good.

Any advice? Hints for repair?

[dellsam34]

It appears to be a player's fault, The chroma sync is correct but it has a cut off at the start of each frame, I would try another camcorder.

[Dutchsteammachine]

It appears to be a player's fault, The chroma sync is correct but it has a cut off at the start of each frame, I would try another camcorder.

I tried an other VX1E, it also has issues with vertical lines in colours.

I rather fix whatever is causing this in the EV-S9000E. The effect doesn't seem to show up on my TV, only on capture. Are capture cards more sensitive to this?

Also shows up if I put it through external TBC. And it is a bit intermittent, sometimes disappears during scene change and then reappear during an other scene change.

[Brad]

I wonder if this is a back tension issue.

https://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_vcrfaqa.html#VCRFAQA_019

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqtoWCQLb0I

(Note: don't adjust this unless you're comfortable with potentially making it worse.)

[Dutchsteammachine]

Really appreciate your thoughts Dellsam and Brad!

As for the back tension, maybe? Would have to look into the service manual to see if it is easy to adjust. Tho with my own tapes that I recorded new I dont see any flagging or waving issues. Just the bar at the top.


[Attachment 87214 - Click to enlarge]

Also interesting here, the top bar seems to invert the colours? Red becomes green and the green parts become red.

The effect is more extreme depending on the amount of saturated colours in the framing.

[The_Doman]

I rather fix whatever is causing this in the EV-S9000E. The effect doesn't seem to show up on my TV, only on capture. Are capture cards more sensitive to this?

Yes, possible the capture device and or driver can be the problem here?
What capture device exactly are you using?
Sure I would test with another capture device first before even thinking about adjusting your player.

[Dutchsteammachine]

I rather fix whatever is causing this in the EV-S9000E. The effect doesn't seem to show up on my TV, only on capture. Are capture cards more sensitive to this?

Yes, possible the capture device and or driver can be the problem here?
What capture device exactly are you using?
Sure I would test with another capture device first before even thinking about adjusting your player.

Normally I capture with my Hauppauge WinTV HVR-1700
Just tested with my Hauppauge USB-Live2 and it has the same issue.

[jagabo]

[Attachment 87214 - Click to enlarge]

Also interesting here, the top bar seems to invert the colours? Red becomes green and the green parts become red.

If the bar doesn't change width it would be easy to invert the colors in AviSynth.

[dellsam34]

The effect doesn't seem to show up on my TV, only on capture. Are capture cards more sensitive to this?

This changes everything, you didn't mention that in your original post, In that case it's a line timing problem, TVs have better line timing so they cope better with such problems. Usually something in passthrough should take care of that problem, a DVD recorder, another camcorder or even try another good VCR and see if it addresses the problem, if not get a suggested PAL Panasonic DVD recorder.

[Dutchsteammachine]

The effect doesn't seem to show up on my TV, only on capture. Are capture cards more sensitive to this?

This changes everything, you didn't mention that in your original post, In that case it's a line timing problem, TVs have better line timing so they cope better with such problems. Usually something in passthrough should take care of that problem, a DVD recorder, another camcorder or even try another good VCR and see if it addresses the problem, if not get a suggested PAL Panasonic DVD recorder.

I've already tried with an ES15 in the chain, doesn't fix the issue. Turning on the internal tbc of the unit makes the bar smaller but the problem still persists, and I want to use my ES15 because it better aligns the head switching noise.

I only tested on my TV after I made the original post.

[Dutchsteammachine]

[Attachment 87214 - Click to enlarge]

Also interesting here, the top bar seems to invert the colours? Red becomes green and the green parts become red.

If the bar doesn't change width it would be easy to invert the colors in AviSynth.

Issue is that it is intermittent, and the effect seems to depend on the overall saturation of the picture.

I'm not looking for a software solution, I'm hoping someone can advise me on what to check in the electronics with the service manual which is readily available.

[The_Doman]

I've already tried with an ES15 in the chain, doesn't fix the issue.

Make a recording on your Panasonic ES-15 on DVD-R/W/RAM?
Try another capture tool, like AmaRecTV or the Hauppauge software?

[Dutchsteammachine]

I've already tried with an ES15 in the chain, doesn't fix the issue.

Make a recording on your Panasonic ES-15 on DVD-R/W/RAM?
Try another capture tool, like AmaRecTV or the Hauppauge software?

Tested capture with AmaRecTV, same issue.

I don't want to record to DVD, i like to capture to huffyuv or prores. Also it shows up even with the ES15 used as pass through so probably will also show up on DVD recording.

[Dutchsteammachine]

Still really confused why the effect seems to appear and disappear between scene changes, makes me think it has to be an electronic problem then not mechanical.

[jagabo]

The effect doesn't seem to show up on my TV, only on capture.

Are you sure? TV's normally overscan so you don't see the edges of the frame.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overscan

[The_Doman]

[QUOTE=Dutchsteammachine;2775457]

I've already tried with an ES15 in the chain, doesn't fix the issue.

I don't want to record to DVD, i like to capture to huffyuv or prores. Also it shows up even with the ES15 used as pass through so probably will also show up on DVD recording.

Assume nothing until tested and verified.
Can be a good way to find the problem in the capture chain.

And when passing through the ES15 to your TV?

[aramkolt]

I've seen something similar on an SVO-5800 which is a high end SVHS machine - for mine, the top several lines lack color altogether on something like 30% of tapes put into it. Other tapes don't show the issue at all. Using those same tapes on a different SVO-5800 does not recreate the issue. So in short, not sure what the issue actually is, but following to see if others have suggestions for you that end up working.

[Sharc]

It seems like Y and U are ok and the problem is with the V channel


[Attachment 87222 - Click to enlarge]

[dellsam34]

At this point it looks like a faulty VCR, even if the problem is not persistent. Fixing it is not just about the service manual, it largely depends on your skills troubleshooting and repairing electronics.

It looks like it's a common problem for that deck:
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/413715-Sony-EV-S9000E-%28PAL%29-Hi8-deck-worse-as-we-remember

[Dutchsteammachine]

At this point it looks like a faulty VCR, even if the problem is not persistent. Fixing it is not just about the service manual, it largely depends on your skills troubleshooting and repairing electronics.

It looks like it's a common problem for that deck:
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/413715-Sony-EV-S9000E-%28PAL%29-Hi8-deck-worse-as-we-remember

Interesting, I have the exact same issue where the band seems to appear and disappear between hard scene issues.

Then it is looking like this deck model just is not right for my capture setup...

I will try to get a different model from the same person, as I think he has more.

Unfortunately my technical knowledge on analog video and electronics is limited, for sure not good enough to go into the deep end and measure circuits with scopes and analyse the signal chain inside.

Thanks dellman

[dellsam34]

Don't get a VCR, get a camcorder, cheaper, less used, and the newer ones have better picture processing.

[aramkolt]

I've always heard there's something better about the EV-S7000/9000 playback where some users prefer it over camcorders. I've got a EV-S7000 as well as a EVO-9850 (both NTSC) that I plan to put head to head with a D8 camcorder with TBC and analog S-Video output and see if there really are significant differences in playback or not for Video8/Hi8 and for the heck of it could throw the DdD at it as well if I can get that working (wish it was more Mac friendly). I can't speak to the other user that had an issue, but the EV-S7000/9000 definitely have a bunch of SMT caps that almost always need replacing on the TBC card, so your issue could be as simple as that if you're handy with soldering, but that's where I'd start if you haven't done it already.

[dellsam34]

They are overrated mainly because they were editing decks back in the day, It's the same with anything video or HiFi nowadays, the sentimental value nothing more. With the exception of a specific feature of digital multi channel audio that some of these decks have that camcorders lack, If one have such rare tapes then maybe worth the hassle.