Is there a player that reads both Betamax and Betacam tapes?

[SeanMcD]

I have been looking all around to find a basic answer or machine. We have started coming across more and more Beta tapes. Some are Betamax tapes and others are Betacam tapes. In order to convert, you need a player that reads them correctly. With VCR tapes, this isn't a problem, but there are the two different types of Beta tapes that are not the same. They play/record at different speeds and the tape sizes are not the same. We use an 8mm video projector that reads both 8mm and Super8mm. I was just wondering if any Beta players read both, or are they so different that they have to be read with different machines? I feel naive about this, but I'm just trying to learn about different options and if two different players are required or if there are player's that read both.

Thanks,
Sean

[oln]

No, Betacam tapes are recorded on tape in a very different way to Betamax (and vhs/video8/u-matic etc).

[Bwaak]

No, Betacam tapes are recorded on tape in a very different way to Betamax (and vhs/video8/u-matic etc).

The question was: is there a universal machine? After all, Digial8 machines can play Video8 and Hi8, why Betacam cannot play Betamax? I actually thought that maybe a TOTL professional deck could do this. I asked the same question on a different forum and was told that there was no universal Betamax/Betacam machine. Maybe there were real technical challenges to that, caused by heads arrangement or something. Or maybe Sony did not want the two to ever meet.

[dellsam34]

I was just wondering if any Beta players read both

Nope.

[SeanMcD]

So, not only did Sony try to monopolize Beta recording, they made it where you might have 3 Beta tapes that look the same, but each tape played with a different machine. I always wondered why Beta's died and VCR's ruled for years. After the VCR's lead, Beta tapes were only seen in the commercial industry - News. There's my answer. Thanks

I remember when I was a kid in the 80's, for some reason we had a beta player. We didn't have a VCR, but COX cable had come to New Orleans and we had basic cable - local channels, HBO, Showtime, Cinemax, The Movie Channel, ESPN, MTV, NICK, TBS, WGN, CNN and that was about it. lol We mainly used the Beta to record TV shows, but the whole point of this story is that back then, I was a kid and worked at one of the early video tape rental stores - Movietime. When one of the newest movies came out on a tape, we'd get 20 VCR tapes and 3 Beta tapes. The VCR tapes would all be rented out out for weeks, but since not many had a Beta player, the new movie tapes were always available to bring home. When Blockbuster started, Beta tapes were gone.

Somethings just make you feel ole when you see the changes.

[Cornucopia]

Understand that there are consumer analog formats called beta (and they have equivalent competitor formats):

Betamax (~= VHS) - with or without HiFi audio
SuperBeta - usually with HiFi audio
ED-Beta (~= S-VHS)

And professional analog formats called beta:

Betacam (~= M-format)
BetacamSP (~= M2 format)

And pro DIGITAL formats called beta:
Digital Betacam, aka Digi-Beta
BetacamSX
MpegIMX
...as well as HD versions, called HDCam & HDCamSR, and discbased versions called XDCam

******************

There are PRO decks that can read (ONLY) some types of consumer formats: for example BetaII and BetaIII speeds of Betamax. And some of those decks (the very high end ones) can play back earlier types of pro formats, so an IMX can play back many formats.
BUT, there are NO Sony decks that can play back ALL formats. This was both intentional from a sales perspective, and due to the difficulties in sticking all the necessary electronics within a reasonably sized deck.
Many versions will not play back a BetaI speed tape.

Due to the peculiarities of analog tape, it is STRONGLY RECOMMENDED that you ONLY used a deck designed for its format, as the playback heads & electronics (filter passbands, etc) are really only optimized for that particular setup.

Scott

[Cornucopia]

@SeanMcD, VHS does the same thing: S-VHS will play VHS, but not vice-versa (although you can sometimes cheat, but it usually bites you anyway). But M, MII will not play VHS or S-VHS.
W-VHS and D-VHS decks may also play VHS, and possibly S-VHS, but not consistently, nor optimally.

There are many other factors involved in the VHS vs Beta wars... (licensing or not, price undercutting, the "2hour" breakthrough, the PORN industry, etc)

Scott

[Bwaak]

When one of the newest movies came out on a tape, we'd get 20 VCR tapes and 3 Beta tapes.

I don't think you were getting any VCR tapes.

@SeanMcD, VHS does the same thing: S-VHS will play VHS, but not vice-versa (although you can sometimes cheat, but it usually bites you anyway).

But almost all Beta machines can play SuperBeta.

There are PRO decks that can read (ONLY) some types of consumer formats: for example BetaII and BetaIII speeds of Betamax.

Ah, so you are saying there were some decks like this? Do you remember model numbers?

[dellsam34]

Maybe he means using consumer beta blank tapes for recording Betacam programs which some studios did, There is no Betacam deck that can playback consumer Beta I, II, III contents as far as I know. And with Betacam SP the blank tape compatibility with consumer formats has stopped due to the new metal tape formulation required for high band recording. And certainly there is no consumer high end or not machine that played any Betacam format.

[dellsam34]

If the OP is looking for a recommandation of a Betacam machine player that plays back all pro SD analog and digital formats in both sizes large and small and yet as small as a modern consumer VCR look for the Sony J3-SDI or J30-SDI. J30-SDI can output 4 audio channels over SDI at once but the J3-SDI can only output 2 audio channels, Havn't seen too many contents in 4 channels for both analog and digital tapes but if you do and have the J3-SDI you would have to capture two passes and mux them. Sony has identical models with analog or firewire outputs but SDI equiped ones are far better in terms of having the raw digital content from a digital tape or a digitized lossless version from an analog tape.

[lingyi]

I'm a former Betaphile having started in 1981 and finally giving up all my machines in 2017 when I moved. I owned 20+ Betamax, including the SL-5800, SL-HF2100 (the 15th Anniversary Beta) and EDV-7500. I only owned consumer Sony Betamax machines, with the lowest end being the SL-20.

MrBetamax https://mrbetamax.com/ for NTSC and PALsite https://www.palsite.com/ PAL and PALsite's links page https://www.palsite.com/betalinks.html are excellent resources for all things Beta. I think MrBetamax may be out of business as there were reports up to last year that he wasn't responding to emails. Info on non NTSC and PAL machines is rare, but I believe one or both sites have a bit of info about them. I know I've read about SECAM and multi-region Beta machines somewhere.

First and foremost. Pet peeve #138. Beta is the format. Betamax is only Sony Beta machines and tapes. Which is why Sanyo machines were Betacord and Toshiba B-Cord.
Trivia. Sony has abandoned the Betamax trademark, so technically any VCR could be a Betamax now.

I believe Beta a format refers to the cassette design and loading mechanism. Which is why we have so many Betacam types.

Despite sharing the Beta name, Betacam is significantly different from home Beta. Foremost being the tape speed. Betacam is multiple times the speed of Beta. Betacam SP runs 3X faster than BI. I found a couple of 30 minute Betacam SP tapes were the equivalent of an L-750, 180m.

SuperBeta is not fully backward compatible with non-SuperBeta machines. Some SuperBeta recordings exhibit modulation errors because of the higher recording frequency. On my SL-5800, the picture was unwatchable and on my SL-HF2700, there was a herringbone pattern. More possible artifiacts are described here: https://mrbetamax.com/BetaCompatibilityVCRs.htm. MrBetamax's link also shows which Betamax are capable of playing back the various Beta recording speeds/types. More about his below.

Which brings us back to other potential Beta recording incompatibilities. These are issues In addition to SuperBeta and are more reasons why the only Beta machine that will play everything is the no hold barred SL-HF2100.

Beta Hi-Fi, which may also cause audio issues, such as humming on non-Beta Hi-Fi machines.

βI, the original recording speed is what Pro decks and the SL-7200 recorded at. MrBetamax says all Beta machines were capable of recording βI. this is incorrect. For U.S. machines, only the SL-HF1000 and SL-HF2100 were capable of recording βI. Some Japanese models did allow βI recording.

βI High Band was introduced in the SL-HF1000 and can only be played back in limited number of machines.

βI Super High was introduced in the SL-HF2100 and can only be played back in the EDV-XXXX series ED-Beta machines.

ED-Beta was the highest resolution (500 lines) consumer format. Ed-Beta recording required Metal tape for the higher quality. Which is I was able to use the Betacam tape I found.

[dellsam34]

There is a distinction between pro machines and industrial machines for schools, churches and corporate use for example, these are not pro machines, they are consumer machines with consumer connections but built a little better to withstand the heavy use and usually do not have TV tuners and remote controls. Betacam are pro machines with pro connections built for use within a studio environement.
InfoBetaGuide lists some industrial models here, But none of those can playback Betacam format I believe.

[dellsam34]

I actually gave you that recommendation last year, You just kept creating threads and abandoning them.

[lingyi]

All the machines on the page you linked to are professional editing machines, suited for heavy non-consumer use. the only machine I would consider industrial is the SL323MD, which is listed at MrBetamax, https://mrbetamax.com/ModelByFeaturesList.html Prior to the "Prosumer" Betamax(s), SL-HF900/SL-HF1000 and EDV-7500/SL-HF1000, there was nothing between consumer and professional machines. Note that some machines, the SLO-420, GCS-50, EDW-30 are striped down versions of their consumer counterparts, must significantly have a wired remote to prevent interference with IR remots.

I used my Betamax(s) so heavily, which is one the reasons I had so many. I asked the Sony techs, whom I got to know well because I had my machines serviced so often, if it was worthwhile for me to get a pro model. They said no, because internally they were the same as the high end consumer models I owned. I also had the SL-HF900.

I even considered getting a EDC-55, the ED-Beta camcorder to compliment my two EDV-7500's, but didn't need a video camera. Which is also the reason I never got a SL-HF1000 or EDV-9500. I didn't need the additional editing features.

The EDC-55 was considered a low end/low cost, $5000 ENG camera.

[lingyi]

I learned something new today! It's a moot point now, but I thought ALL pro/industrial Beta machines only recorded βI, but looking at MrBetamax's listing, there are some that recorded at βII and βIII

[dellsam34]

I have to disagree, Pro machines are for studio use in the broadcasting field and use Betacam format, Industrial machines are for schools, churches, corporate, governement and small scale duplication and use consumer Beta format, That's just how it's been, Sorry.

[isapc]

Watch this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGVVAQVdEOs

[lingyi]

I have to disagree, Pro machines are for studio use in the broadcasting field and use Betacam format, Industrial machines are for schools, churches, corporate, governement and small scale duplication and use consumer Beta format, That's just how it's been, Sorry.

You're conflating professional formats and machines.

Beta was introduced in 1976. Betacam in 1978. The first SLO was introduced 1976 along with the format, one year after Beta was introduced for the home market in 1975. Prior to that, professional (as in used for broadcasting) videocassette was U-Matic. To say that the SLO series, with their editing features aren't professional is misleading.

I do agree, as you stated, Beta was used in {redated: professional, though] lower end studios ad you've stated. Edit IMO, lower end doesn't mean non-professional.

[lingyi]

Quotes from the master, lordsmurf. These are about VHS, but since Home is literally in in the name, it's in the same realm as Beta.

Panasonic S-VHS (NTSC)

NTSC professional editing decks, with full-field (multi-line) TBCs instead of a standard line TBC. The Panasonic Picture Control slider on the 1970/1980 is a variable version of the JVC Picture Control selections (by default, it tends to already sharpen a little at the "normal" notch setting). While the picture quality is generally not as clean as JVC VCRs, its benefits include better EP/SLP tape playback.

JVC S-VHS (NTSC)

There's two main reason to get a prosumer/professional JVC S-VHS VCR: the TBC, and the image "picture mode" filters (Auto/Norm/Soft/Sharp), which drastically improve the quality of VHS tapes. Most of the 9000-series decks also have the Dynamic Drum, which can be very helpful for tracking. Though not important, the 7000 series has 2mb TBC memory, and while the 9000 series has 4mb.

Note that the "professional" SR decks are simply a continuation of the prosumer 7000 series. The "Professional" badge is just branding/marketing, and does not make these better units. Several of the SR series machines were part of professional-quality "combo" decks that mixed in DV player/recorder and hard drives.

https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-restore/1567-vcr-buying-guide.html

[dellsam34]

Your master not mine, You can argue all you want buddy but apples are apples and oranges are oranges, Let's agree to disagree and let the OP move on with his quest.