Codecs not showing up in VirtualDub?

[plehoediv]

Hi,

I go from my VCR through my TRV820E camcorder and then to my PC, via Firewire cable. When I open VirtualDub/VirtualDub2 I see video and get sound and I am able to capture but only in Uncompressed. There are no other codecs I can choose. YES, I looked at this thread, but it did not help.

I tried everything, including installing utvideo and many other codecs, but it will not work. I also do not see an option for source or capture pin???

Having said that, by pure coincident, I noticed that I could pick and use a different codecs, when I chose my Webcam as capture device!? I also see now capture pin but source is still not giving me any options, which I guess is OK because I am getting a video and sound feed.

This is on a 12-year-old Dell Vostro running Windows 10. I also installed the Legacy IEEE 1349 driver, but still, no codecs. I also installed Sony Home Movie Something, I forgot the name, bit I read somewhere that this should fix the problem. Of course, it didn't.

My question is, does this have something to do with the Camcorder, Firewire cable, firewire driver, VirtualDub or with what?

I also captured with WinDV which worked, but I have no idea which one I should use. i feel like VirtualDub is "better" because it has more settings to choose from. According to this and many other posts, WinDV is the way to go. However, that post is old so who knows what is "best" these days?

Thanks.

[DB83]

You sure you are capturing uncompressed ?

Post a mediainfo text mode report of a sample. AFAIK vdub/2 can not use any codec since you do not have an analog source capture device. DV, just as with WinDV, is the only option.

[plehoediv]

You sure you are capturing uncompressed ?

I am not sure, but I took an "educated" guess, since my only option is Uncompressed DVSD.

Post a mediainfo text mode report of a sample.

Never used that app so I hope this worked.

AFAIK vdub/2 can not use any codec since you do not have an analog source capture device. DV, just as with WinDV, is the only option.

You know what!? This explains everything. I remember having hooked up a USB capture stick (made by Basetech. Used it with RCA cables. Now I cannot get it to work again without getting a fatal crash on ANY PC of mine). When I used the stick, VirtualDub was showing me all those codecs. Having seen those codecs before, I was sure that I will see them as well when using the camcorder! I guess I was wrong.

thanks for the fast reply.

[DB83]

Now read the report and under video you will see the proof:

Format: DV

[plehoediv]

Now read the report and under video you will see the proof:

Format: DV

I guess that "proofs" that there is nothing wrong with VirtualDub, and that there are no codecs visible because there is no Analog video. Right? Analog Video = Codecs, Digital Video = No codecs. Right.

That also means that I could use WinDV since I was concerned that I cannot really chose any settings. But I guess WinDV works the same way. It is a digital signal, thus nothing really to choose from. At least that is how I understand it.

Thanks.

P.S. Now I remember reading that a camcorder only transfers the footage to the computer and that might be the reason there are not codecs to choose from!?

[DB83]

Well it does proove that there is nothing wrong with vdub but it will not allow any of the various options permitted for an analog source.So you might as well use WinDV or SCLive which many on here will prefer.

[plehoediv]

Well it does proove that there is nothing wrong with vdub but it will not allow any of the various options permitted for an analog source.So you might as well use WinDV or SCLive which many on here will prefer.

Copy that! Thanks again.

P.S. Since I have you one the "line", I might as well ask... I also have a DMR-ES15 and EH55. The plan is to go from my VCR (S-VHS but no TBC. I honestly think my tapes do no need TBC), through the ES15 or EH55, then into the camcorder and from there digital via Firewire to the PC. Any reason that might be a bad idea?

P.P.S. The camcorder has tbc.

[DB83]

If the camcorder has a TBC there is IMO no advantage in adding ferther equipment into the chain.

Others many hold a different opinion.


But, again, samples of actual video with just the camcorder and with an ES15 provide more analysis than pure theory.


Your method(s) do, however, restrict you to DV which is a lossy format. Not as lossy as mpeg2 but still lossy. That means that when you edit and convert you will lose information from your captured video.


If you just use the ES15, which does act like a TBC, and capture analog through s-video with a lossless codec the initial captures will be larger than with DV but will be better quality. (and you can now use vdub/2 to it's potential)

[plehoediv]

If the camcorder has a TBC there is IMO no advantage in adding ferther equipment into the chain. Others many hold a different opinion.

Copy that.

But, again, samples of actual video with just the camcorder and with an ES15 provide more analysis than pure theory.

I am going to do that for sure. Try everything and then post some samples.

Your method(s) do, however, restrict you to DV which is a lossy format. Not as lossy as mpeg2 but still lossy. That means that when you edit and convert you will lose information from your captured video.

WOW! I learn something new every day. Literally. I thought that uncompressed means lossless. I guess not. That was the whole reason I bought the camcorder, so I can use the build-in TBC, and also have the camcorder convert the signal from analog to digital. However, I just realize that there might be a difference between capturing VHS tapes running through the camcorder and capturing digital tapes coming directly from the camcorder!?

If you just use the ES15, which does act like a TBC, and capture analog through s-video with a lossless codec the initial captures will be larger than with DV but will be better quality. (and you can now use vdub/2 to it's potential)

Hold on, I am confused now. How am I supposed to capture analog through s-video with a lossless codec? I have a ClearView type capture box and I used that before. There is no way the files are bigger than when captures through the camcorder. At least from what I remember.

Thanks.

[DB83]

Past my bed-time for a reply yesterday.

True uncompressed means that no codec has been used to create the digital video. You indeed saw that option in vdub/2. Files are quite large - 2 gb per minute typically. To use it, as you have now discovered, you require an analog source coming in to the PC. DV is digital.


Using an appropiate camcorder as a pass-through device has long been an accepted method to transfer analog tapes, typically VHS, to a PC and in the process create a digital version. The camcorder outputs DV so the PC merely records the incoming signal with no alteration to the source. DV is a legacy format - over 20 years old - and people sought other ways to capture analog. While capture devices have long existed - I acquired my first one in the late 1990s - captures, as you infer, were typically prone to time-base errors. The advantage using the camcorder for pass-though also made use, if available, of its built-in TBC.


Enter the non-documented 'discovery' that certain brands of Panasonic dvd-recorders, such as the ES10 and ES15, also had pass-through capabilities with the added bonus of some tbc-like features. Just as using nothing more than a capture device - I am not familiar with a Clearview - analog video is fed into the Panny and analog video comes out which is then fed to the capture device. A capture program, such as vdub/2, now takes that signal, which at this stage is uncompressed, uses a lossless codec - UTVideo is one such codec (I use Lagarith or Huffyuv) - to create the digital version.


To summarise:


1. VHS >> camcorder >> PC = DV (25 gb per hour)
2. VHS >> Panny >> camcorder >> PC = DV (25 gb per hour)
3. VHS >> Panny >> capture device >> PC + lossless codec = digital (typically 40-50 gb per hour)


I do not know the input/output capabilities of your Clear View. If it has firewire inputs and outputs then you still end up with DV as option 1. If it just has usb outputs your digital video is dependent on its output settings such as mpeg2 @ typically 8 gb per hour.

[plehoediv]

Past my bed-time for a reply yesterday.

I figured...

True uncompressed means that no codec has been used to create the digital video. You indeed saw that option in vdub/2. Files are quite large - 2 gb per minute typically. To use it, as you have now discovered, you require an analog source coming in to the PC. DV is digital.

Copy that.

Using an appropriate camcorder as a pass-through device has long been an accepted method to transfer analog tapes, typically VHS, to a PC and in the process create a digital version. The camcorder outputs DV so the PC merely records the incoming signal with no alteration to the source. DV is a legacy format - over 20 years old - and people sought other ways to capture analog. While capture devices have long existed - I acquired my first one in the late 1990s - captures, as you infer, were typically prone to time-base errors. The advantage using the camcorder for pass-though also made use, if available, of its built-in TBC.

So, VHS (analog) to Camcorder, Camcorder (digital) to PC, PC records it AS IS (now digital). Possibly with TBC. That makes sense. I still have a few tapes in Digital 8, otherwise I would have picked a different method of digitizing my VHS tapes. I guess. However, when doing a google search, you get the typical spread. Prices range from 10 bucks to 100 bucks to 1000 bucks. Any suggestions?
When I look up analog to digital on Wikipedia, it looks like a fairly "easy" process, which leads me to believe that it doesn't really matter if you use a 10 dollar device or one for 1000? Kind of like Radio Controlled Radios/Transmitters. You can buy a Futaba for 3000 bucks or a Radiomaster for 500. The Radiomaster actually has more features than the Futaba. Sure, the Futaba has a way better build Quality, but I don't see that being an advantage when using a analog to video converter. I mean, how much quality difference can there be in one of those tiny chips!? But hey, I am not an electronics dude by all means.

Enter the non-documented 'discovery' that certain brands of Panasonic dvd-recorders, such as the ES10 and ES15, also had pass-through capabilities with the added bonus of some tbc-like features.

I am the type of dude that reads something and immediately thinks," I need this!" and goes and buys it. Often, it turns out that I didn't really need to buy this or that. Which is the case with the ES15 and the EH55, because my tapes do not suffer from "issues" a TBC could fix.

Just as using nothing more than a capture device - I am not familiar with a Clearview

Actually, mine is this one right here. It just looks like a ClearView and from what I heard; it is pretty much the same.

- analog video is fed into the Panny and analog video comes out which is then fed to the capture device. A capture program, such as vdub/2, now takes that signal, which at this stage is uncompressed, uses a lossless codec - UTVideo is one such codec (I use Lagarith or Huffyuv) - to create the digital version.

Yeah, that makes total sense. And that is exactly what I did with my USB capture device. I plugged that into the PC, started vdub and was able to see/use all the codecs. However, like I mentioned before (I think I did, if not, don't worry about it), that stupid USB device does not work anymore!? I am not sure why, but it now crashes my PC's. I tried an old Dell with Windows 10 and Windows 7, and a fairly new HP with Windows 11. Anyhow, it doesn't really matter because I can always buy another one of those USB capture devices.

That said, my Auvisio (ClearView) device has a SD card build in, so I cannot use any software like vdub to capture the footage. I guess that is the downside of it.

To summarise:


1. VHS >> camcorder >> PC = DV (25 gb per hour)
2. VHS >> Panny >> camcorder >> PC = DV (25 gb per hour)
3. VHS >> Panny >> capture device >> PC + lossless codec = digital (typically 40-50 gb per hour)

See, this is where I get confused! The signal coming from the camcorder is DV, I get that, and that is why I don't see the codecs in vdub, like you explained earlier. But isn't the signal from a USB capturing device also digital? Or is there a difference between DV and digital? Or is it because the signal from the camcorder is AS IS and not converted? That is my guess. So DV coming from the camcorder is not the same as digital coming from a capture device??? That would explain why when using my webcam I can see all the codecs. A webcam is digital but not DV?

I do not know the input/output capabilities of your Clear View. If it has firewire inputs and outputs then you still end up with DV as option 1. If it just has usb outputs your digital video is dependent on its output settings such as mpeg2 @ typically 8 gb per hour.

Once you look at the device you will see that it is one of those "all in one" capture devices so it does all the converting and capturing inside...

Thanks bro, you are really helping me out here and I appreciate it.

[DB83]

That 'ClearView' is also branded as 'Clear-Click'. Pretty much over-priced for what it does. Only 'advantge' = no PC required.

Ok. For clarity. DV is a special form of Digital Video with fixed qualities as you read in the report you posted earlier. Yes, a usb capture device does convert the analog signal to full-frame (720*576 for PAL) digital format uncompressed. Remember that DV is actually compressed.


Main reason why your 'stupid' - your word not mine - usb device no longer works would typically be down to drivers. Many such devices 'died' after WinXP. The one that I currently use is a Hauppauge USB-Live2 which has good driver support. Although I am still on Win7 it does work on Win8/10 and probably 11. You can read many topics on here and other devices are also well recc.

[plehoediv]

That 'ClearView' is also branded as 'Clear-Click'. Pretty much over-priced for what it does. Only 'advantage' = no PC required.

Yeah, I realized that now. What i should've/could've done is get a Blackmagic Video Assist. Sure, it is not the same price range, but it works pretty good when not wanting to use a PC. It has HDMI In so you could capture straight from the ES15, if you wanted to. But honestly, I don't remember anymore why I didn't want to use a PC and bought that "stupid" ClearView thing, ha ha.

Ok. For clarity. DV is a special form of Digital Video with fixed qualities as you read in the report you posted earlier. Yes, a usb capture device does convert the analog signal to full-frame (720*576 for PAL) digital format uncompressed. Remember that DV is actually compressed.

Ahh, I see. Because it is "fixed" vdub does not allow me to pick another codec.

Main reason why your 'stupid' - your word not mine - usb device no longer works would typically be down to drivers. Many such devices 'died' after WinXP. The one that I currently use is a Hauppauge USB-Live2 which has good driver support. Although I am still on Win7 it does work on Win8/10 and probably 11.

Oh yeah, I know it has something to do with the driver, but why was it working before and suddenly it doesn't? And by "before" I mean last week. Anyhow, that is not the issue here and I am going to focus on something else. Like buy a new converter.

You can read many topics on here and other devices are also well recc.

I know. I was curious to hear what you use...

Thanks.

[plehoediv]

BTW, here is a mediainfo file from my ClearView box type device...

[Alwyn]

It has HDMI In so you could capture straight from the ES15

My ES-15 does not have HDMI Out. I believe the earliest TBC-like Panny that does have it is the EH-57 (I have one). I don't think (based on Ebay pics) that the EH-55 has HDMI either.

[plehoediv]

It has HDMI In so you could capture straight from the ES15

My ES-15 does not have HDMI Out. I believe the earliest TBC-like Panny that does have it is the EH-57 (I have one). I don't think (based on Ebay pics) that the EH-55 has HDMI either.

You are correct! I made a mistake. I have a friends DMR-EX95V sitting here and that one has HDMI out!

[Alwyn]

Enter the non-documented 'discovery' that certain brands of Panasonic dvd-recorders, such as the ES10 and ES15, also had pass-through capabilities with the added bonus of some tbc-like features

Panasonic "VCR Refresh":

https://web.archive.org/web/20060411200718/https://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/diga/us...e_quality.html

[plehoediv]

Enter the non-documented 'discovery' that certain brands of Panasonic dvd-recorders, such as the ES10 and ES15, also had pass-through capabilities with the added bonus of some tbc-like features

Panasonic "VCR Refresh":

https://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/diga/usa/eh55/high_picture_quality.html

Page not found...

[Alwyn]

Link fixed. Sorry about that.

[DB83]

BTW, here is a mediainfo file from my ClearView box type device...

Well we have all bought 'stupid' things in the past


As for what mediainfo reports I am somewhat worried. Ok. It is widely reported that mediainfo, at best, is not 100% accurate. Yet you have a PAL source @ 25 fps which, even if your device doubles the frame-rate should give you (even converting interlaced video to progressive which, technically doubles the frame-rate) 50 fps and not some random number which has no relevance to PAL sources.


But that device is converting on the fly so who knows what it is doing in the background.


But we drift from the original Q. Even a dvd-recorder with hdmi out is somewhat OT. I have one and would never consider that as a capture source. It was NEVER intended so but to connect to your tv and upscale in the process.

[Alwyn]

Even a dvd-recorder with hdmi out is somewhat OT. I have one and would never consider that as a capture source. It was NEVER intended so but to connect to your tv and upscale in the process.

OT: it actually works very well for SD capture, DB. The Germans, in particular, are fans. I use it as much as I do my analogue workflow. Certainly, for plehoediv, it may be a good option with his EX-95 and that Blackmagic thingee.

[plehoediv]

Link fixed. Sorry about that.

Interesting read. Thanks.

[plehoediv]

BTW, here is a mediainfo file from my ClearView box type device...

Well we have all bought 'stupid' things in the past


As for what mediainfo reports I am somewhat worried. Ok. It is widely reported that mediainfo, at best, is not 100% accurate. Yet you have a PAL source @ 25 fps which, even if your device doubles the frame-rate should give you (even converting interlaced video to progressive which, technically doubles the frame-rate) 50 fps and not some random number which has no relevance to PAL sources.


But that device is converting on the fly so who knows what it is doing in the background.


But we drift from the original Q. Even a dvd-recorder with hdmi out is somewhat OT. I have one and would never consider that as a capture source. It was NEVER intended so but to connect to your tv and upscale in the process.

Thanks for the input...

[plehoediv]

Even a dvd-recorder with hdmi out is somewhat OT. I have one and would never consider that as a capture source. It was NEVER intended so but to connect to your tv and upscale in the process.

OT: it actually works very well for SD capture, DB. The Germans, in particular, are fans. I use it as much as I do my analogue workflow. Certainly, for plehoediv, it may be a good option with his EX-95 and that Blackmagic thingee.

I can keep the EX95 for as long as I like. Don't have the Blackmagic Video Assist yet, and I am not sure if I really need it. I am still working out all the VCR's, DVD burners and camcorders.

BTW, here is another thread of mine where I posted a bunch of sample video, in case someone is interested in that...

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/409130-Here-is-my-Setup-What-do-you-think/page2

Thanks.

[Bwaak]

Enter the non-documented 'discovery' that certain brands of Panasonic dvd-recorders, such as the ES10 and ES15, also had pass-through capabilities with the added bonus of some tbc-like features

Panasonic "VCR Refresh":

https://web.archive.org/web/20060411200718/https://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/diga/us...e_quality.html

It is VCR Refresh Copying. That is, copying from a VCR with a refresh. If anything, it is Refresh Copying, not VCR Refresh. The latter makes no sense, unless you mean a repair or just cleaning the VCR with a piece of cloth

BTW, DIGA is "Panasonic's nick-name for our DVD recorders. You may hear the word in our multimedia instructions. "DIGA" stands for "your Panasonic DVD recorder" in the movies."

I suppose, my VCR with a TBC, NR and a full frame store also could claim "refresh copying" capabilities, but it is too humble for that.

[Alwyn]

What are you on about, Bwaak??