Why is Neat video the best video denoiser?

[dvd3500]

Why do people even denoise?

Because silencing people with murder is still illegal in most places...

Oh wait... wrong forum!

[manono]

Why do people even denoise?

To make a video more compressible.

[bigass]

I've used Neat Video for years, and love it even more now that I'm regularly using it in VirtualDub. I'm a lot more comfortable now using the many levels of adjustments possible. My early ham-handed noise reduction took out too much of the life and detail from the video, leaving it looking just weird sometimes. Narrowing down which frequencies I want to treat and by how much and in which luma or color channel has made it more of a brush and less of a mop in cleaning up captures.

[Truthler]

Here's some mild filtered versiond of the Sample.avi:

# Imports
import os
import sys
import vapoursynth as vs
# getting Vapoursynth core
core = vs.core
# Import scripts folder
scriptPath = 'I:/Hybrid/64bit/vsscripts'
sys.path.insert(0, os.path.abspath(scriptPath))
# Loading Plugins
core.std.LoadPlugin(path="I:/Hybrid/64bit/vsfilters/DenoiseFilter/CTMF/CTMF.dll")
core.std.LoadPlugin(path="I:/Hybrid/64bit/vsfilters/Support/libtemporalmedian.dll")
core.std.LoadPlugin(path="I:/Hybrid/64bit/vsfilters/Support/libmvtools.dll")
core.std.LoadPlugin(path="I:/Hybrid/64bit/vsfilters/SharpenFilter/CAS/CAS.dll")
core.std.LoadPlugin(path="I:/Hybrid/64bit/vsfilters/SourceFilter/LSmashSource/vslsmashsource.dll")
# Import scripts
import nnedi3_resample
import mvsfunc
import havsfunc
import SpotLess
import lostfunc
import adjust
# source: 'C:\Users\Selur\Desktop\Sample.avi'
# current color space: YUV420P8, bit depth: 8, resolution: 720x576, fps: 50, color matrix: 470bg, yuv luminance scale: limited, scanorder: progressive
# Loading C:\Users\Selur\Desktop\Sample.avi using LWLibavSource
clip = core.lsmas.LWLibavSource(source="C:/Users/Selur/Desktop/Sample.avi", format="YUV420P8", cache=0, fpsnum=50, prefer_hw=0)
# making sure input color matrix is set as 470bg
clip = core.resize.Bicubic(clip, matrix_in_s="470bg",range_s="limited")
# making sure frame rate is set to 50
clip = core.std.AssumeFPS(clip=clip, fpsnum=50, fpsden=1)
# Setting color range to TV (limited) range.
clip = core.std.SetFrameProp(clip=clip, prop="_ColorRange", intval=1)
# cropping the video to 678x568
clip = core.std.CropRel(clip=clip, left=22, right=20, top=0, bottom=8)
# Color Adjustment
clip = adjust.Tweak(clip=clip, hue=0.00, sat=0.00, cont=1.00, coring=True)
# contrast sharpening using CAS
clip = core.cas.CAS(clip=clip, sharpness=0.870)
clip = lostfunc.DeSpot(o=clip)
clip = lostfunc.DeSpot(o=clip)
clip = lostfunc.DeSpot(o=clip)
clip = lostfunc.DeSpot(o=clip)
clip = SpotLess.SpotLess(clip=clip, chroma=False, radT=3)
# adjusting frame count and rate with sRestore
clip = havsfunc.srestore(source=clip, frate=25.000, omode=6, speed=9, thresh=16, mode=2)
# removing grain using SMDegrain
clip = havsfunc.SMDegrain(input=clip, tr=6, interlaced=False)
# adjusting output color from: YUV420P8 to YUV420P10 for x265Model
clip = core.resize.Bicubic(clip=clip, format=vs.YUV420P10, range_s="limited")
# set output frame rate to 25.000fps
clip = core.std.AssumeFPS(clip=clip, fpsnum=25, fpsden=1)
# Output
clip.set_output()

Cu Selur

Hello Selur!

Here is the contest file. 6.78 GB http://sendanywhe.re/I42VK5IA
I'm still taking antipyretic pills, but I did the shot with gimbal. So respect that!

I set the shutter speed to max, gain to max, iris to the min and the I'm waiting for your denoised version.

Bye!


[Attachment 61094 - Click to enlarge]

I was standing on the right side of the building, here: https://www.google.com/maps/@47.5087619,19.046708,3a,75y,232.98h,98.79t/data=!3m6!1e1!...7i13312!8i6656

[Selur]

Downloaded the file, not sure when I will find time to look at it. Busy the next few days. (may be I can have a quick look at it tomorrow or monday)
Also since you probably won't share details in what you do and thus keep your results unreproducable it will probably spend time for nothing.

Cu Selur
Ps.: looks like SMDegrain should do a good job on it.

[rrats]

Truthler, can you please stop shooting with max iso, it hurts on so many levels

[Truthler]

Truthler, can you please stop shooting with max iso, it hurts on so many levels

How else can I generate noise with a camera? MAX ISO, max Shutter, and minimal apperture...

[Truthler]

Downloaded the file, not sure when I will find time to look at it. Busy the next few days. (may be I can have a quick look at it tomorrow or monday)
Also since you probably won't share details in what you do and thus keep your results unreproducable it will probably spend time for nothing.

Cu Selur
Ps.: looks like SMDegrain should do a good job on it.

Hi selur!

The output video must be in lossless codec, like utvideo.
You can use the free https://send-anywhere.com/ , to upload files up to 10GB, with a simple registration and unlimited times.

[Selur]

The output video must be in lossless codec,

Sure, I used FFV1 as format since I usually get smaller file sizes with it than UT and it works reliably on Windows/Linux/Mac through libav for me.

Not wanting to overblur and sharpen stuff I encoded a fast version using SMDegrain and CAS.
To allow reproduction of the result, here's the script I used:

# Imports
import os
import sys
import vapoursynth as vs
# getting Vapoursynth core
core = vs.core
# Import scripts folder
scriptPath = 'I:/Hybrid/64bit/vsscripts'
sys.path.insert(0, os.path.abspath(scriptPath))
# Loading Plugins
core.std.LoadPlugin(path="I:/Hybrid/64bit/vsfilters/Support/fmtconv.dll")
core.std.LoadPlugin(path="I:/Hybrid/64bit/vsfilters/SharpenFilter/CAS/CAS.dll")
core.std.LoadPlugin(path="I:/Hybrid/64bit/vsfilters/DenoiseFilter/CTMF/CTMF.dll")
core.std.LoadPlugin(path="I:/Hybrid/64bit/vsfilters/Support/libmvtools.dll")
core.std.LoadPlugin(path="I:/Hybrid/64bit/vsfilters/SourceFilter/LSmashSource/vslsmashsource.dll")
# Import scripts
import nnedi3_resample
import mvsfunc
import havsfunc
# source: 'J:\I did it.avi'
# current color space: YUV420P8, bit depth: 8, resolution: 3840x2160, fps: 29.97, color matrix: 709, yuv luminance scale: limited, scanorder: progressive
# Loading J:\I did it.avi using LWLibavSource
clip = core.lsmas.LWLibavSource(source="J:/I did it.avi", format="YUV420P8", cache=0, prefer_hw=1)
# making sure input color matrix is set as 709
clip = core.resize.Bicubic(clip, matrix_in_s="709",range_s="limited")
# making sure frame rate is set to 29.970
clip = core.std.AssumeFPS(clip=clip, fpsnum=30000, fpsden=1001)
# Setting color range to TV (limited) range.
clip = core.std.SetFrameProp(clip=clip, prop="_ColorRange", intval=1)
# removing grain using SMDegrain
clip = havsfunc.SMDegrain(input=clip, thSAD=600, contrasharp=True, interlaced=False, opencl=True, device=-1)
# contrast sharpening using CAS
clip = core.cas.CAS(clip=clip, sharpness=0.800)
clip = core.fmtc.resample(clip=clip, kernel="spline16", w=3840, h=2160, interlaced=False, interlacedd=False)
# set output frame rate to 29.970fps
clip = core.std.AssumeFPS(clip=clip, fpsnum=30000, fpsden=1001)
# Output
clip.set_output()

seems like decent start.

Will send a link once the upload is finished. (this will take a while, since me internet connection is not that fast, hopefully the upload doesn't about again)
-> ARGH, aborted again, just 300mb shy of finishing

Remember you also need to post your settings to so others can verify what you are doing otherwise the whole thing is useless.

Cu Selur

[Selur]

Now stating the upload to send-anywhere a third time, if it fails again I'll give up on that service. (It did abort after around 7GB, so if I have to upload around 22GB for a 7.1GB file it's simply not worth it.)

[Truthler]

Now stating the upload to send-anywhere a third time, if it fails again I'll give up on that service. (It did abort after around 7GB, so if I have to upload around 22GB for a 7.1GB file it's simply not worth it.)

The Sorry to hear that.
That service works quick and reliable with 2Gbit/s optical conection.
Can I ask you, how did you produce 22Gb file? (10 Gb is the limit of the free service)
Did you remain in the 8bit 4:2:0 color space? Have you used the lossless UTvideo compressor with median settings?

Did you delete your previous uploaded files to have space?


[Attachment 61102 - Click to enlarge]

[Selur]

You misunderstood me, my file is 7.1GB, but since it aborted two files shy after 7GB I already uploaded 14 GB, after uploading the third time it's then 21GB.

[Truthler]

[Attachment 61103 - Click to enlarge] This is the solution.

I have at least 50 e-mail addresses only for registrations, it means 50 account in that file sharing service.... It is 50X 10 GB for file sharing )))

You misunderstood me, my file is 7.1GB, but since it aborted two files shy after 7GB I already uploaded 14 GB, after uploading the third time it's then 21GB.

[Selur]

Okay, correction, the file is 7.62GB: sendanywhe.re/SJ7S25GT

Cu Selur

Ps.: You still did not really understand what I wrote. *gig*

[DB83]

@Selur


You appear to be a quite intelligent fellow. And since you have authored a program/utility as an alternative to avisynth shows to me that you know what you are doing.


But why are you wasting your time on this topic ?. A 'competition' requires a jury that has no pre-conception of the result. Here we have a judge who has already made his mind up of the better result (even if he is not prepared even to share the result or how he achieved it)


A topic that simply massages the ego of the OP. If he had any credibility he would upload video that had real-time qualities where the noise was intringent to the conditions of the situation and not an artificial one as created.


And the laffable point is that having promoted the value of a download source he now uses another. And who know what 'nasties' that one has.

[Selur]

I mainly do this to let users know that they can do quite a bit with Avisynth/Vapoursynth and that marketing isn't everything.
(+ if the source isn't 4k I can also try some machine learning tools to get a better feel for them how they act on what content)

[Truthler]

....,,,...

I already won the contest:

http://sendanywhe.re/PXRDO7OC

Cleaner without noise, more fine detail came out from the nothing on the building. It is simply SUPERIOR. With one word: TRIUMPH!

[Selur]

Haven't looked at the file.
Where is the list of settings that allows to reproduce the result?
Without them no really worth looking at the result.
Also like I wrote before, I still might find some time to look at this and not just make a quick filtering.

Cu Selur

[DB83]

"Here we have a judge who has already made his mind up of the better result........."


Could not have worded that better myself. Darn it. I did.

[Truthler]

Haven't looked at the file.
Where is the list of settings that allows to reproduce the result?
Without them no really worth looking at the result.
Also like I wrote before, I still might find some time to look at this and not just make a quick filtering.

Cu Selur

Data for reproduction

[Truthler]

What is that silence, pause of effect? like in a drama play in a theater ....

Astonishment .... or silence before the storm ?

[Selur]

A few comments:
a. befinning seems to be way to oversharpend&smoothed (whole image -> https://ibb.co/bJVRqSB)
b. there are some strange (ghosting?) artifacts (lower right corner -> https://ibb.co/Q84h68W)
Sorry, to say this, but to me even my quick filtering looks way more pleasing to the eye than yours.
But since quality is in the eye of the beholder. I'm happy that congratulate you to your result.
(If that is what Neat usually produces I would not recommand it to anyone.)

Cu Selur

[Truthler]

A few comments:
a. befinning seems to be way to oversharpend&smoothed (whole image -> https://ibb.co/bJVRqSB)
b. there are some strange (ghosting?) artifacts (lower right corner -> https://ibb.co/Q84h68W)
Sorry, to say this, but to me even my quick filtering looks way more pleasing to the eye than yours.
But since quality is in the eye of the beholder. I'm happy that congratulate you to your result.
(If that is what Neat usually produces I would not recommand it to anyone.)

Cu Selur

It is not for eye pleasuring, but the reproduction of reality, as much as possible. I have a lot of details geometrical forms on the building, which is covered by noise on your version.
The original building has no noise....

[Selur]

It is not for eye pleasuring, but the reproduction of reality, as much as possible

Okay, we have totally different goals. When I filter something I try to produce something that folks want to look at.

Your perception of reality clearly is different than mine if you thing that those strange artifacts your denoising produced or that oversharpend image would be something good, but for the fun of it, I'll produce a version in a few days with lots of smoothed sharpening like you did. *gig*

Have a good night. (have to stand up in 6 hours and I need to go to bed now)

Cu Selur

[Truthler]

Smdegrain:


VS. Good quality:

[sophisticles]

Looking at both, I think the one Selur did may be slightly more pleasing to the eye, but for the most part they seem to me like six of one, half dozen of the other, very few real differences, unless you want to pixel peep and nitpick.

Having said that, Neat Video is much easier to setup and use, most people would never be able to put together the script that Selur did but on the other hand Avisynth is free and Neat Video does cost a decent buck.

What I would like to see is Selur replicate what he did but use his own GUI, since it does allow one to make use of numerous filters much easier than writing a long complicated script does.

[Truthler]

My favourite:


The better solution (mine):

[Truthler]

But my victory is not complete yet.

Somebody is missing... the other great competitor: Poisondeathray... Where is his version?

[Selur]

Having said that, Neat Video is much easier to setup and use, most people would never be able to put together the script that Selur did but on the other hand Avisynth is free and Neat Video does cost a decent buck.

a. it's Vapoursynth not Avisynth I'm using
b. Getting that clip was not even a 5min job. Load source in Hybrid, enable Preview, enable SMDegrain change three values (thSAD=600, contrasharp=True, opencl=True), enable CAS, change one value. Which should be way less than Truthler did, but I agree that using Neat is easier for most users, but usability never was a question.

What I would like to see is Selur replicate what he did but use his own GUI,

That script was createed using Hybrid, I did not do any manual script writing at all. (didn't have the time, like I wrote I'm busy in real live the next few days, no time to play around a lot)

Cu Selur

[Cornucopia]

Also too busy. Moreover, I won't cooperate with bogus methodology either, so I'm out.
None of these are valid comparisons until you get your act together and submit sources, detailed steps & settings, results, so that they are all independently reproduceable, as we have stated over and over, through multiple threads.


Scott