VHS Capture - Audio Syncing Nightmare

[naps1saps]

I thought I had everything figured out to find 7 tapes later there was an audio drift issue about 1 second delay at the end of a 2 hour tape.
Days of testing later I come to find it's not a drift issue but a result of starting and stopping recording (camcorder) and is horrific if there is a gap in the recording like having perfect sync then a long 5 second gap, then 2 second delay.

I can start a recording, press play, and get the initial sync to be at various points because of where head sync catches the tape I guess.

So what gives??? How does this work? I've tried enabling and disabling all the sync settings to no avail.
Why is this so difficult??? At least I figured out a solution to recording then encoding for archive in 30fps h264 interlaced format.

Virtual Dub
x264 compression > interlaced
PCM Audio
disabled overlay
disabled audio preview
all variations of sync settings.

This VCR DVD burner combo with a broken burner (previous owner's cigarette tar on the lens) has all kinds of outputs including HDMI

Is there a difference if I try using S-Video? I'd try it but my cables are at my parent's house.
I might check out the HDMI and see what format it puts out for VHS if it even goes through the HDMI.

[naps1saps]

Looks like the HDMI output is 480P 60 de-interlaced so it would be easy to capture and crop it with an HDMI capture card.
I'm pretty sure 60p is a larger file than 60i so it's not as attractive but it's the format I was using previously before all this audio garbage.

I would still like your feedback about how the audio/video sync works and why it's linked to how the tape is recorded.

[KarMa]

Virtualdub has a well know audio sync issue that develops over the course of the capture. I would suggest AmaRecTV 2.31 as the only replacement. It's what I switched to after I gave up on trying to fix Virtualdubs sync issues.

https://www.videohelp.com/download/amarectv231_en.zip

[Brad]

What's the model # of the VHS-DVD recorder combo?

I don't have much experience with them, but the Funai-based model at Vancouver's library operates differently in normal VCR playback mode (no digital correction is done) compared to Dubbing mode (may solve your issue with blank tape sections, but with side effects):
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/374205-Weird-stuff-happening-during-VHS-to-DVD-transfer

[oln]

It's often possible to change the hdmi ouput resolution and other settings, so maybe you'll be able to get 480i from it (keep in mind that a TV will deinterlace a 480i signal). Granted, not all VHS/Burner combos (e.g many JVCs) can output video on all outputs.

[Mr Chris]

I would suggest AmaRecTV 2.31 as the only replacement.

I second the recommendation for AmaRecTV, but is there a reason you recommend that specific version, rather than a more recent one?

[KarMa]

I would suggest AmaRecTV 2.31 as the only replacement.

I second the recommendation for AmaRecTV, but is there a reason you recommend that specific version, rather than a more recent one?

Pretty sure the newest version wants you to pay for it while the older version is just fine.

[Mr Chris]

Pretty sure the newest version wants you to pay for it while the older version is just fine.

Oh, thanks - but I'm using 3.10 and haven't come across anything like that. (Hopefully I'm not in for a nasty surprise...) As long as there's no technical/stability reason, I'll stop worrying about it!

[KarMa]

Pretty sure the newest version wants you to pay for it while the older version is just fine.

Oh, thanks - but I'm using 3.10 and haven't come across anything like that. (Hopefully I'm not in for a nasty surprise...) As long as there's no technical/stability reason, I'll stop worrying about it!

Hmmm ok. I just remember someone saying something along the lines of the newest version had a pay wall of sorts or you had to use the AMV codec only but I never verified it for myself. If it works then certainly ignore me

[lordsmurf]

Virtualdub has a well know audio sync issue that develops over the course of the capture.

Uh ... no. No such thing exists.
I've captured 8-hour tapes as lossless AVI, no dropped frames, no sync issues.
Using quality JVC S-VHS (line TBC) + external DataVideo workflow, to good AIW capture card.

[KarMa]

Virtualdub has a well know audio sync issue that develops over the course of the capture.

Uh ... no. No such thing exists.
I've captured 8-hour tapes as lossless AVI, no dropped frames, no sync issues.
Using quality JVC S-VHS (line TBC) + external DataVideo workflow, to good AIW capture card.

Are you really this new to the forums, or do you not remember the other times you have disputed the problems with Virtualdub? There are countless numbers of posts here about Virtualdub's audiosync issues in capture. If it works flawlessly for you, that doesn't automatically mean that there are no problems with Virtualdub. All of my sync issues have been corrected with Amrectv instantly, with no other changes to my setup.

[Sharc]

One may also try VirtualVCR instead of VirtualDub. It's lean and solved dropped frames and AV sync issues which I experienced (years ago) with other capturing SW that time.
It seems still to function under Windows 7/10.

[LMotlow]

One may also try VirtualVCR instead of VirtualDub. It's lean and solved dropped frames and AV sync issues which I experienced (years ago) with other capturing SW that time.
It seems still to function under Windows 7/10.

That's a frequent occurrence, but to say that VirtualDub is inherently flawed by design is not a logical conclusion when millions of users have no problems with it. I've captured literally thousands of hours of tapes for 15 years with VirtualDub, AIW cards and some USB cards, and with tbc iin the chain and never had audio sync problems on 5 different PC's over that time. Likely there are system anomalies in some OS setups that generate problems for some capture setups (including DV as well as analog). Agreed, a proper fix would be to use something that's more in agreement with whatever mushugana OS configuration is causing problems. I've seen where people had problems with Amarectv, too, but if that's what works in your system then obviously you should use it.

[lordsmurf]

There are countless numbers of posts here about Virtualdub's audiosync issues in capture. .

Indeed there are -- but about 99% of those are lack of TBC at fault. Any capture software will have drops, because the software isn't at fault. You're making a misleading statement.

If it works flawlessly for you,

It does work flawlessly because I'm not feeding it a POS signal from a crummy old VCR, no TBC, and a cheap EZcap (Easycrap) card.

Folks that follow my capture example/advice generally have a great experience, while those that don't generally find themselves in a circle of video hell. And that general advice is to capture lossless Huffyuv in VirtualDub, with recommended known-good hardware (VCR, TBC, capture card). It's not impossible to have a flawless experience.

But it also requires NOT having knee-jerk reactions to issues with known-good software/hardware. (aka "Eww, VirtualDub sux, it gave me sound sync problems!") In almost all cases, conflicts are the root problem, devices/software won't play nice.

All of my sync issues have been corrected with Amrectv instantly, with no other changes to my setup

I highly doubt that was the only variable at play, if that is the case. VirtualDub is not necessarily the most dummy-friendly software, and sometimes settings do need to be tweaked. But video in general isn't dummy-friendly, there is a learning curve.

All software has quirks, limitations, conflicts, etc (and that includes Amarec). Some more than others, and sometimes unusably so. But that's not VirtualDub.

[TimA-C]

Back to AmarecTV . . . version 3.10 is available on the Japanese website (program is in both English or Japanese) and is, as far as I'm aware, the last version that doesn't force you to use their bespoke codec for capturing.

[arpcpro]

I keep having the same problem with VDub. Do I need to capture the video again with AmarecTV to get rid of this audio issue? Isn't there any automatic way to adjust this increasing audio offset on the current footage?

[KarMa]

I keep having the same problem with VDub. Do I need to capture the video again with AmarecTV to get rid of this audio issue? Isn't there any automatic way to adjust this increasing audio offset on the current footage?

With Vdub it seems to be a gradual thing, where the start of the audio is fine but it progressively gets worse as the minutes tick by. If the entire video was offset by lets say 1 second, that would be an easy fix. But when every frame has its own individual offset its impossible to fix without just capturing it again with AmarecTV.

[arpcpro]

I keep having the same problem with VDub. Do I need to capture the video again with AmarecTV to get rid of this audio issue? Isn't there any automatic way to adjust this increasing audio offset on the current footage?

With Vdub it seems to be a gradual thing, where the start of the audio is fine but it progressively gets worse as the minutes tick by. If the entire video was offset by lets say 1 second, that would be an easy fix. But when every frame has its own individual offset its impossible to fix without just capturing it again with AmarecTV.

Thanks for answer. In my case the audio offset increases. During the first minutes the delay is just a couple of milliseconds. After 1 hour or so, it is like 2 seconds. After 3 hours of capture it is maybe 5 seconds.

[davexnet]

I keep having the same problem with VDub. Do I need to capture the video again with AmarecTV to get rid of this audio issue? Isn't there any automatic way to adjust this increasing audio offset on the current footage?

With Vdub it seems to be a gradual thing, where the start of the audio is fine but it progressively gets worse as the minutes tick by. If the entire video was offset by lets say 1 second, that would be an easy fix. But when every frame has its own individual offset its impossible to fix without just capturing it again with AmarecTV.

Thanks for answer. In my case the audio offset increases. During the first minutes the delay is just a couple of milliseconds. After 1 hour or so, it is like 2 seconds. After 3 hours of capture it is maybe 5 seconds.

You can try time stretching the audio in an audio editor so that the start and end is in sync. Will it now be in sync all the way through?
Maybe, maybe not. You can try that, if it's no good, recapture with AmarecTV

[dellsam34]

Thanks for answer. In my case the audio offset increases. During the first minutes the delay is just a couple of milliseconds. After 1 hour or so, it is like 2 seconds. After 3 hours of capture it is maybe 5 seconds.

If AmarecTV didn't fix your problem you may need to post the hardware you're using from the VCR all the way to the capture card to help you address it, There are two major reasons for audio drift:

- One is the capture card drops frames due to loosing VBI signal from the video source, as video frames get dropped and audio not, it will have a delay, this is usually fixed by using a frame TBC before the capture card or a digital video processor such as a mixing console or a DVD recorder.

- Two is CPU resources, The frame synchronizer (frame stacker) of the capture software that communicates with the capture card's ADC gets busy and skips processing frames which leads to the same issue, In this case using a lean software such AmarecTV can fix the problem, or leave the computer alone during capturing with no background activity, I noticed this when capturing professional formats, using vdub it stutters a lot, used a slightly faster computer it stuttered less but still not smooth. So used the very lean manufacturer's app worked with no problems.

The bottom line is you have to find the cause of the audio delay to be able to fix it.

[Sharc]

In my case the audio offset increases. During the first minutes the delay is just a couple of milliseconds. After 1 hour or so, it is like 2 seconds. After 3 hours of capture it is maybe 5 seconds.

Could be a HW issue. If the clocks for video and audio of your capture infrastructure are not derived from the same master osciallator - or are not synchronized properly - one will see a drift which slighly varies over time, depending on temperature for example. Don't know how far capture SW will compensate it. Check the settings options.

[rds11]

I have the exact same issue as the OP. For some reasons, there's always something wrong with my captures, but I found that having the audio out of sync was the lesser evil, since I'm able to fix it. I'm using Panasonic AG1980, Mitsubishi DVHS or JVC W7U VCRs, datavideo TBC and ATI TV Wonder 600 capture card feeding to Virtualdub (capturing with lagarith), and the issues are either the audio going slowly out of sync or fields that are sometimes copies of the previous one (the card is not dropping any frames).

Anyways, to fix the audio going out of sync, there's a filter in Virtualdub I use after the capture is done. First, when I load the video into Virtualdub, I look at the 'File Information' tab. It provides the length of the Video and Audio streams. Then, under 'Audio', I select 'Full Processing Mode' followed by 'Use Advanced Filtering' & 'Filters'.

Then add 'Input', 'Time Stretch' and 'Output'. Under Time Stretch, the time ratio should be the Video Length divided by the Audio Length (in seconds). For example, if my Video was 3 hours 59 minutes and 59.38 seconds, that would give a total of 14,399.38 seconds. The, if the audio length is 14396.25 seconds, the ratio I will enter in the 'Time Stretch' filter is 1.000217418 (i.e. 14399.38 / 14396.25).

[dellsam34]

Could be a HW issue. If the clocks for video and audio of your capture infrastructure are not derived from the same master osciallator - or are not synchronized properly - one will see a drift which slighly varies over time, depending on temperature for example. Don't know how far capture SW will compensate it. Check the settings options.

No it has nothing to do with the oscillator because same cards work for some and don't work for others.

I have the exact same issue as the OP. For some reasons, there's always something wrong with my captures, but I found that having the audio out of sync was the lesser evil, since I'm able to fix it. I'm using Panasonic AG1980, Mitsubishi DVHS or JVC W7U VCRs, datavideo TBC and ATI TV Wonder 600 capture card feeding to Virtualdub (capturing with lagarith), and the issues are either the audio going slowly out of sync or fields that are sometimes copies of the previous one (the card is not dropping any frames).

If you are having audio sync with the Datavideo TBC in the chain this is a clear indication that it's reason #2 as I mentioned in my earlier post, CPU/Capture software issue, In this case a lean software work better for you.

[dave_van_damme]

Pretty sure the newest version wants you to pay for it while the older version is just fine.

Oh, thanks - but I'm using 3.10 and haven't come across anything like that. (Hopefully I'm not in for a nasty surprise...) As long as there's no technical/stability reason, I'll stop worrying about it!

Hmmm ok. I just remember someone saying something along the lines of the newest version had a pay wall of sorts or you had to use the AMV codec only but I never verified it for myself. If it works then certainly ignore me

I keep seeing posts saying Amarec 2.31 and 3.10 don't require buying the AMV codec but both versions are asking me to purchase it when I try to record. Does anyone know where I can find a version which does not require the codec? Or is it possible that I've set it up incorrectly?

Edit: Figured it out. I chose Lags but hadn't selected "Other codec". Sadly, it's producing weird green interference at the bottom of the screen. Sigh...