TV calibration

[TimA-C]

Once that is set and done, I hope that the show me the casting set by the director or film producer, like the green cast of Matrix for example. In this case, there is nothing wrong with your calibration just because you see a green cast.

The Matrix was the first DVD I owned. Bought it the day it came out, on the way back from picking up a hardware accelerator card to work alongside the Matrox G200 graphics card and Pioneer slot DVD drive in my home-built AMD Athlon XP PC. Got home, put in the DVD and spent the next 45 minutes trying to get rid of the green cast . . . Did I feel a fool when Morpheus Welcomes Neo to the Real World! D'oh!

[amaipaipai]

Once that is set and done, I hope that the show me the casting set by the director or film producer, like the green cast of Matrix for example. In this case, there is nothing wrong with your calibration just because you see a green cast.

The Matrix was the first DVD I owned. Bought it the day it came out, on the way back from picking up a hardware accelerator card to work alongside the Matrox G200 graphics card and Pioneer slot DVD drive in my home-built AMD Athlon XP PC. Got home, put in the DVD and spent the next 45 minutes trying to get rid of the green cast . . . Did I feel a fool when Morpheus Welcomes Neo to the Real World! D'oh!

You was not the only one!
Back in 1999/2000 I was using the creative PC DVD Encore DXR2, that thing put a violet bluish cast on everything, then come the Matrix DVD with that green cast, oh My God!

[poisondeathray]

Maybe color casting wasn't the right word. My problem is that the red areas on my screen are oversaturated and doesn't seem to be any way of fixing it without making the colors look more washed out and faded or messing up the RGB balance. And I still want to know if the factory settings on a Vizio Smart TV have an option for manually adjusting curves

I doubt a Vizio would have that amount of control. But look in the manual

The red color casting is noticeable on some homemade Noozles DVDs that I ripped from VHS about 10 years ago, which I color corrected using an old Hotronic TBC.

I suspect it's both a problem with your homemade source, and probably partially from your hardware setup



If you want to affect a specific range of "reds" only, it's know as "secondary color correction" . No TV , not even top high end models or professional broadcast reference displays, will have that amount of control . You have to do that with color correction

[LMotlow]

poisondeathray is probably correct. I've never seen a Vizio TV with a full CMS (Color Management System). Like Panasonic, Vizio oversaturates reds (it's called "red push") because it looks cool to the clueless idiots who think that in your face showroom factory settings look "great". Even if you could get a correct point to point grayscale correction with a Vizio's simplified RGB controls, that won't fix individual color saturation. As pdr says, it's known as secondary color correction, and TV calibration software provides a grid or interface that allows proper matching to TV standards. While SONY TV's come with a better set of grayscale gain and bias controls, they don't have secondary corrections but usually don't require it. That leaves you with Samsung (which varies model by model, check the manuals) and LG. But with Vizio and similar brands, which aren't as smart as the box says they are, well, you've fallen victim to the way mass marketing lowers standards and makes you think you're getting "more".

[lingyi]

While most people think of Vizio as a low to medium end HDTV manufacturer, they do have highly regarded high end models in their P (Professional) and R (Reference) lines, with the 65" R series reaching near mythical status a couple of years ago as it's limited release to the public was delayed several times.

It finally made it to the 2016 Value Electronics HDTV Shootout (an annual event comparing the top HDTVs of the year), but was last in a comparison of four high-end HDTVs.

[DaneClark]

poisondeathray is probably correct. I've never seen a Vizio TV with a full CMS (Color Management System). Like Panasonic, Vizio oversaturates reds (it's called "red push") because it looks cool to the clueless idiots who think that in your face showroom factory settings look "great". Even if you could get a correct point to point grayscale correction with a Vizio's simplified RGB controls, that won't fix individual color saturation. As pdr says, it's known as secondary color correction, and TV calibration software provides a grid or interface that allows proper matching to TV standards. While SONY TV's come with a better set of grayscale gain and bias controls, they don't have secondary corrections but usually don't require it. That leaves you with Samsung (which varies model by model, check the manuals) and LG. But with Vizio and similar brands, which aren't as smart as the box says they are, well, you've fallen victim to the way mass marketing lowers standards and makes you think you're getting "more".

Would it help if I turned the tint on the TV all the way to the far end of the green side, then balanced it out using the tint knob on one of the SIMAs?

[LMotlow]

None of the controls address saturation. That SIMA box causes noise and distortion, which is why I returneed mine years ago. And that was in the CRT era, when TVs were much more forgiving. Secondary color correction involves delta-Y (saturation) correction for six colors: red, green, blue, yellow, magenta, cyan. To some extent you can compensate for no secondary controls using grayscale correction, but you need "real" bias and gain controls, not up/down RGB like the ones I've seen with Visio. That type of control is better than nothing, but it's of very limited use. And without a colorimeter and a readout app, you're just shooting blind anyway. Correct for one video or one channel, and the others will be out of whack. No one can calibrate a TV accurately by eyeball alone. It's not possible. If you can't use the right tools, you're just shooting yourself in the foot again and again.

[DaneClark]

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=18466

Could this mean anything?

[LMotlow]

Up to you. Get out your soldering iron and air spray. That won't get a good calibration for you. You're still stuck with inadequate Vizio controls and no way to measure your results. Next year at this time you'll still be struggling with it.

[DaneClark]

Maybe I should get a new tv. What's the best model of smart TV to get if I want to avoid all the issues I'm having with my current set without having to use SIMAS, and what would be the best picture settings for making that model look the same as the average CRT set would look on its default settings?

Maybe not exactly like that, I didn't like the oversaturated reds, the video bloom, or the crushed black levels of my current setup, but all the other little imperfections about it gave it an old school "90s basic cable" look that I actually kinda liked...I'd like to be able to replicate that the right way on another set...although I also want my homemade DVDs to look as good as they can so maybe that's not such a good idea, this feels like the kind of decision someone else should make for me, I'm like that about that kind of thing.

My homemade DVDs do seem to look perfect with my current setup (besides the issues that I mentioned in this thread), and attempting to recreate that 90s cable look on another set could throw everything out of whack..need some advice here

[LMotlow]

So....you want to calibrate your TV to match another uncalibrated TV?

Interesting.

[Cornucopia]

(See former posts)
After having multiple incidents of horrendous support, I will/would never buy Vizio again. Funny to think now that I have media "recommendation" status at a good sized University. Don't F#<k with your customers.

Scott

[DaneClark]

So....you want to calibrate your TV to match another uncalibrated TV?

Interesting.

Probably just barely uncalibrated, and what I consider to be "just barely uncalibrated" could just be my mind playing tricks on me. Making it look like a normal CRT display is probably what I want.

[LMotlow]

No one ever made a "normal CRT", nor do I think anybody here has any idea what you man by that. CRTs needed adjustment just as badly as today's plastic-jelly LCD's. There's no way an LCD will ever look like a CRT, especially a properly calibrated and properly designed CRT. The closest to accuracy that you could get in a CRT were the professional mastering monitors, many of which are still in use today, and all of which are repeatedly recalibrated by their users with pro gear. The closest thing you'll get to a CRT picture is a plasma TV, and even then there were plenty of lemons coming off the plasma assembly lines.

There's no such thing as "barely uncalibrated". A TV is adjusted as close as possible to D6500 standards, or it isn't. You can't do that by eyeballing it, and you can't do it with a calibration disk. Maybe you should re-think this calibration business. It doesn't seem to be what you're looking for.

[lingyi]

+1 to LMotlow's post

Your use of the term "calibrated" is incorrect and causing confusion. This article https://www.cnet.com/how-to/what-is-hdtv-calibration/ explains why you can't "calibrate" your set yourself.

Two critical points from the article:

"Calibration vs. setup
First some semantics. Often the words "calibration" and "setup" are used interchangeably. This is incorrect. Setup is what you can do with the basic TV controls with either just your eye, or -- even better -- with one of the many excellent setup Blu-ray discs available. Calibration requires specialized test equipment (which we'll discuss in a moment), and a trained calibrator who knows how to use it."

"In many cases, if someone isn't familiar with what a calibrated TV looks like, they're probably not going to like it... at first. A correctly calibrated TV will appear, to the uninitiated, reddish and soft. This is because the accurate color temperature is far warmer (redder) than how most TVs look out of the box. The sharpness control -- often set very high -- adds an artificial edge to everything. This masks real detail, but when you take it away, the image initially appears soft, even though it's actually showing more fine detail."

[amaipaipai]

Sorry to disagree but, for the uninitiated, D65 standard doesn't have a reddish anything.

D65 has to do with White Point and not Reds.
https://www.xrite.com/service-support/why_calibrate_monitor_to_d65_when_light_booth_is_d50
https://www.xrite.com/service-support/white_point_settings
https://www.xrite.com/service-support/monitor_calibration__which_white_point_is_correct

This is why people from CNET and its article is BS, people should not take something for granted like that, include the people from HDTVtest on the list, they calibrate the screen with the setting "Warm 1" for crying out loud, to this day this people cant figure it out why their red's are off all the time in that color saturation track. This people sell services, what you would think if I tell you that you need a certified what ever load of BS calibrator to fine tune you stereo because you alone can't adjust the bass and treble of your own system, you need specialized equipment and a trained calibrator who knows how to use it. Give me a f* break, and there are people that fall for that.

I'm not telling that professionals that do screen calibration and their equipment are not needed and they are trying to rip you off (some are), as stated before, you need this if its required to perfect match what you see with what you print or if you are in the movie/TV industry or need color control. What this people does is to try to shove down your throat what they think is right for you, a setting that has a red color casting. If you train your eyes and brain to see that red casting as normal, it will with time.

Color is a illusion, the way our brain perceive color is different, my red is not your red.

Back in my Sony days, 20 years ago, I was the one responsible to make sure all the TV monitors and calibration equipment follow that D65 standard, that was necessary to calibrate final user cameras, semi-pro cameras, pro cameras, cinema cameras, etc.

This calibration are done for TVs too, this subject is very subjective because the way your perceive color is different, you have your own preferences. If a machine tells you that the screen you are seen after another calibration made by a professional is the correct one, it might look washed out to you, it might look to red to me and so on. I know people that paid $200 for a screen calibration and latter ended up choosing "VIVID" or "CINEMA" modes, take a look at this direct frame capture, it already has a red/green color casting.

Then your TV add more red with "Warm 1" or "Cinema" modes, this is not "natural" at all and calibrating your TV to look more red, is not correct. For the final user, if we need to say what is "correct" I say, the correct is the neutral white than a warmer picture temperature over saturated with reds.


About sharpness, like the Matrix movie the kid say "There is no spoon", also "There is no sharpness", tell me, from the picture bellow, witch one is sharper?

You are wrong if you choose right, the picture that looks sharper is another illusion that fool your brain, the sharpness control adds a white noise around the borders of the image, if you are a purist, now you know.

Trust me, the image bellow A and B has the same shade of gray.

So, don't believe that D65 is about reds.

[LMotlow]

Sorry to disagree but, for the uninitiated, D65 standard doesn't have a reddish anything.

True.

This is why people from CNET and its article is BS

You mean people still read CNET for video information?

What this people does is to try to shove down your throat what they think is right for you, a setting that has a red color casting

OK up to this point, but -- well, I'm sorry, but you just don't get it about starting points. Calibrators often start with Warm 1 because with many TV's that setting represents the closest starting point for getting to a D6500 correction. With another TV they might have to start with something called "neutral", which could be closer to D6500 than Warm 1 or any other setting. It depends on the TV's design. Once correctly calibrated for grayscale, there should be no measured dominance of one color over another. Gray will be pure gray, or close to it, at any measuring point across the spectrum from IRE 0 to IRE 100. And of course one of the "colors" in the gray spectrum is what we call "white". If the three RGB colors that make up shades of gray from zero black to bright white are in balance to display equal proportions of red-green-blue at any point on the scale, all other non-gray colors will display without added coloration. We would then say that what is being displayed is an "accurate" translation of what was input. If the input was haywire or stupid, the display will look equally haywire or stupid. If the input was a competent job of art and science designed to resemble Mother Nature as realistically as possible according to common presentation standards, the corrected display will present those shades and colors as the maker created them.

Many people don't see colors accurately. Many have contrast problems. Some people just have poor visual taste. If you don't have good color perception to begin with, or if you just want an in-your-face and uninformed visual experience, you're wasting your time with D6500 calibration. In that case get a Samsung TV set up at factory showroom settings and use it to light up your neighborhood with its glaring 9600 K neon-blue output. Some people say you could guide a jetliner for a landing in fog with typical out-of-the-box settings.

I know people that paid $200 for a screen calibration

$200? That's all? Did you tell those people they'd get just as much for their money by flushing $200 down the toilet?

Then your TV add more red with "Warm 1" or "Cinema" modes, this is not "natural" at all and calibrating your TV to look more red, is not correct. For the final user, if we need to say what is "correct" I say, the correct is the neutral white than a warmer picture temperature over saturated with reds.

And I say you seem to have overlooked what calibration entails. Those "Warm1", "neutral" and other settings aren't "calibration". Those settings are meaningless and vary with each TV. Usually they don't just use different color balance settings, they also change saturation levels for specific, targeted colors. Only a half-blind rube would use those pre-set mode settings as a final step. Maybe you should read up on it. Some good links have been posted about how the adjustment process takes place and what the goals are for each step. And stay away from CNET.

[amaipaipai]

Yes, stay away from CNET!