Best-quality tool to convert VOB/MPEG-2 to DV (AVI or MOV)

[moxiecat]

Hello everyone,

My family is embarking on a video project for our next reunion. Primarily, we will be digitizing SD videotapes, almost certainly as DV. I know many here prefer lossless YUY2 AVI, but I think the tradeoffs of ease and file size of DV will be a better choice in our situation. We'll be editing the digitized video on Windows (likely Premiere) or Mac (FCP) - our exact computer has not been determined yet. So the captured DV footage will either be in an AVI or Quicktime/MOV container.

Here's the conundrum: A few of our video clips are only on DVD discs. The original videotapes have been misplaced (hopefully not thrown out!) but copies exist on homemade DVDs. I am well-versed in ripping DVDs and working with the footage, and have used DVD Decrypter and Womble MPEG Video Wizard many, many times over the past decade, so accessing the footage is not a problem.

Here's where I'm stymied: What is the best program to use to convert these DVD-source video clips to DV format? Obviously, I am looking to achieve the best quality possible. If the project were only DVD-source clips, I would edit in Womble or a similar MPEG-2 editor. But since the majority of the project will be DV, it seems to make more sense to bring the DVD clips into Premiere or FCP.

I have used MPEG Streamclip to convert MPEG-2 files to DV MOV in the past - it doesn't seem like there are many options on the Mac. I have never used it on Windows though I know MPEG Streamclip exists there. But are there better tools to use on Windows for converting VOB/MPEG-2 files to DV AVI? I saw that FairUse and AutoGK were highly rated but I'm not sure they do AVI DV.

And finally - there's no reason to do this project in MP4, is there? This seems like a no-brainer to me, but some family members are convinced that one should edit in MP4 and I'd like to dispel them of that notion!

Appreciative of any help you can give. Thank you!

[poisondeathray]

If you are using premiere, you can edit them in their original mpeg2 format without extra quality loss or extra time wasted in the conversion

But it you still want DV-AVI on windows, you could use virtualdubmod and cedocida . (Some people still prefer editing I-frame formats. The other reason was editing speed, but on today's computers SD MPEG2 is no problem)

[moxiecat]

Thanks, poisondeathray. I will check into the tools you mentioned.

If you are using premiere, you can edit them in their original mpeg2 format without extra quality loss or extra time wasted in the conversion

Question: I have actually imported MPEG-2 video into Premiere in the past (from Mini DVDs). As I recall, isn't there a conversion process that happens anyway before the video can be worked with? (I'm not sure what version of Premiere we would end up using.) Also, we may wind up exporting in DV when finished and encoding in a separate program, so at some point that MPEG-2 video is probably going be transcoded by Premiere. Maybe Premiere does an OK job, maybe not, but that's another reason I was asking - if there are dedicated tools that might do a better job with MPEG-2-->DV-AVI.

[Bernix]

Ahother tool that has DV (ffmpeg) in AVI output is Avidemux. I just mention another tool that can do this and is free. I think the quality here depends more on codecs rather than software.
But of course Premiere has plenty of other features and is much much better than poor Avidemux.

Bernix

[moxiecat]

Thanks, Bernix. Now that poisondeathray pointed me in the direction of VirtualDub, I have read a few threads and encountered discussions of codes (Panasonic, MainConcept, cedocida) and I think you are right that it's more about the codec than the tool. VirtualDub seems to have a lot of users and support so that's fine with me!

Question: If we would decide to convert to lossless (huffyuv or Lagarith) instead, would we use Virtual Dub for that too? I don't know if we will, as that creates a whole other issue for our captures. But it seems, from what I've read, VirtualDub can handle converting an MPEG-2 file to DV OR lossless simply based on the codecs that are installed - is that correct?

[Bernix]

Hi,
in times when I used Virtualdub, only this https://www.videohelp.com/software/Virtualdub-MPEG2
was able to read MPEG2, but I think nowadays Virtualdubfiltermod and others recently updated versions can read MPEG2 also.

Bernix

[poisondeathray]

Question: I have actually imported MPEG-2 video into Premiere in the past (from Mini DVDs). As I recall, isn't there a conversion process that happens anyway before the video can be worked with? (I'm not sure what version of Premiere we would end up using.) Also, we may wind up exporting in DV when finished and encoding in a separate program, so at some point that MPEG-2 video is probably going be transcoded by Premiere. Maybe Premiere does an OK job, maybe not, but that's another reason I was asking - if there are dedicated tools that might do a better job with MPEG-2-->DV-AVI.

For MPEG2, yes, there is always some internal conversion. But the argument is "DV" is going to be more lossy. There is an extra round of avoidable generation loss. It's not as if you're jumping through hoops or using large intermediate files - it's actually easier to import directly ; you're saving space and working faster

The one "gotcha" is importing MPEG2 in certain containers (MPEG-PS is affected) in certain versions of premiere get interpreted incorrectly . They get progressive upsampling instead of interlaced (results in chroma errors). You might have to re-wrap into a transport stream (or actually batch renaming the extension works too). I don't know if they fixed this in the latest version, but it's easy enough to check

DV can be smart rendered in PP (this means it can pass through cuts only editing without loss) . So if that's all you're doing, DV export out, you don't incur more loss (because you were going to be exporting DV anyways). But for home video (I'm assuming that's what the clips in question were), I've never seen any that did not require at least minor color/levels adjustments. Anytime you add a filter, overlay, etc.. that section gets re-rendered. Unless those manipulations were already performed before putting it on DVD...

There's not going to be a huge quality loss if you use 1 extra round of DV, so either way is fine IMO . If you want absolute best practices you should use a lossless workflow; but in PP that means no lossless compression codecs because they get "treated" as RGB. It means using uncompressed UYVY



For DV codecs, they all have slight pros/cons . You can demonstrate areas where one is slightly better , but slightly worse in other areas. The only one to avoid for certain is Panasonic, which converts to RGB

[Bernix]

Hi,
I have panasonic camera and captured it in panasonic software, by treated as RGB, you mean it is intermediate work in RGB or final video in RGB?
I think that DVCPRO is from both panasonic and sony.
Here is part of mediainfo of avi file.

Format : DV
Commercial name : DVCPRO
Codec ID : dvsd
Codec ID/Hint : Sony
Frame rate : 25.000 FPS
Standard : PAL
Color space : YUV

But if this is bad codec I have not other way to capture in different software...

Bernix

[jagabo]

Do not use VirtualDub or VirtualDub FilterMod for interlaced MPEG to NTSC DV. It will screw up the chroma channels unless you are very careful. Use VirtualDubMod.

[poisondeathray]

Hi,
I have panasonic camera and captured it in panasonic software, by treated as RGB, you mean it is intermediate work in RGB or final video in RGB?

When using the panasonic VFW decoder, the output pin is RGB . There are no configuration options to specify otherwise. (Unless they updated it, I doubt it)

The camera itself should be fine, the footage is fine. Just use a different decoder

[poisondeathray]

The one "gotcha" is importing MPEG2 in certain containers (MPEG-PS is affected) in certain versions of premiere get interpreted incorrectly . They get progressive upsampling instead of interlaced (results in chroma errors). You might have to re-wrap into a transport stream (or actually batch renaming the extension works too). I don't know if they fixed this in the latest version, but it's easy enough to check

This bug is still there. Just renaming the .mpg extension to .m2ts works, or properly rewrapping works too

Do not use VirtualDub or VirtualDub FilterMod for interlaced MPEG to NTSC DV. It will screw up the chroma channels unless you are very careful. Use VirtualDubMod.

vdfm + cedocida worked too . Maybe it was because I was careful ?

The default import filter used was the MPEG2 import filter (as reported file=>file information in vdfm) , video=>fast recompress as usual

[smrpix]

It seems you need edit and convert this video.
I think you could try Wondershare Video Converter, it is easy to use, and powerful, someone used to successfully convert 14-hour-long MOV video to MP4 without quality loss . this product also could help you edit the video.

No. No. No. This not only makes things worse, it's probably spam as well.