media info says NTSC for PAL?

[Anonymous]

Why would footage says NTSC in media info when my Nikon D3200 is set to PAL. I thought I had posted this, apologies if i have. I do not see it

[Krispy Kritter]

Should be able to tell by the file specs, regardless of what media info reports, but I've never noticed it to be wrong.

Post a screensheet for review.


EDIT: My comments above were in regards to DVD material. HD material is no longer distinguished as PAL/NTSC.

[usually_quiet]

My comments above were in regards to DVD material. HD material is no longer distinguished as PAL/NTSC.

True.

Plus, it seems that only those of us in N. America must still be mindful frame rate when playing HD video. Many N. American HD TVs only accept 29.97fps, 59.94fps or 60fps input, especially from analog video connections. I don't think that is the case in other places.

[johnmeyer]

Plus, it seems that only those of us in N. America must still be mindful frame rate when playing HD video. Many N. American HD TVs only accept 29.97fps, 59.94fps or 60fps input, especially from analog video connections. I don't think that is the case in other places.

I don't know about analog inputs which, of course, are used less and less. However, I'd be surprised if any TV set in North America couldn't play any random frame rate if the video is fed to the TV either through HDMI or USB.

[Anonymous]

Here is the media info data. There is no problem playing it on the computer.Have not tried on TV. I just wondered why it says NTSC for Standard as my camera is set to PAL

General
Complete name : C:\Users\sounds\test.mp4
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID : mp42
File size : 748 MiB
Duration : 7mn 30s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 13.9 Mbps
Encoded date : UTC 2015-02-24 23:53:51
Tagged date : UTC 2015-02-24 23:53:51

Video
ID : 2
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : Main@L4.0
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 3 frames
Format settings, GOP : M=4, N=15
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 7mn 30s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 13.7 Mbps
Maximum bit rate : 24.0 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Standard : NTSC
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.265
Stream size : 738 MiB (99%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2015-02-24 23:53:51
Tagged date : UTC 2015-02-24 23:53:51

Audio
ID : 1
Format : AAC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile : LC
Codec ID : 40
Duration : 7mn 30s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 192 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 10.3 MiB (1%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2015-02-24 23:53:51
Tagged date : UTC 2015-02-24 23:53:51

[usually_quiet]

Plus, it seems that only those of us in N. America must still be mindful frame rate when playing HD video. Many N. American HD TVs only accept 29.97fps, 59.94fps or 60fps input, especially from analog video connections. I don't think that is the case in other places.

I don't know about analog inputs which, of course, are used less and less. However, I'd be surprised if any TV set in North America couldn't play any random frame rate if the video is fed to the TV either through HDMI or USB.

Blu-ray players and built-in TV media players may convert the video and output a signal the TV can display. I once played a region-free PAL DVD on a Blu-ray player connected to an older LCD TV via HDMI. The TV's info button showed a 480p signal. I'm guessing that the player was converting the video because the TV's EDID indicated it can't display 576p at 50fps.

[johnmeyer]

Plus, it seems that only those of us in N. America must still be mindful frame rate when playing HD video. Many N. American HD TVs only accept 29.97fps, 59.94fps or 60fps input, especially from analog video connections. I don't think that is the case in other places.

I don't know about analog inputs which, of course, are used less and less. However, I'd be surprised if any TV set in North America couldn't play any random frame rate if the video is fed to the TV either through HDMI or USB.

Blu-ray players and built-in TV media players may convert the video and output a signal the TV can display. I once played a region-free PAL DVD on a Blu-ray player connected to an older LCD TV via HDMI. The TV's info button showed a 480p signal. I'm guessing that the player was converting the video because the TV's EDID indicated it can't display 576p at 50fps.

No need for any conversion. The days of a North American TV only being able to play 29.97 interlaced video are long gone. They are all the same as computer monitors and therefore can play any frame rate.

[usually_quiet]

Blu-ray players and built-in TV media players may convert the video and output a signal the TV can display. I once played a region-free PAL DVD on a Blu-ray player connected to an older LCD TV via HDMI. The TV's info button showed a 480p signal. I'm guessing that the player was converting the video because the TV's EDID indicated it can't display 576p at 50fps.

No need for any conversion. The days of a North American TV only being able to play 29.97 interlaced video are long gone. They are all the same as computer monitors and therefore can play any frame rate.

No. I checked the manual for my 2011 LG 32LK330 TV. Listed below are the supported refresh rates/frame rates and resolutions for HDMI (non-PC) input:
720x480p - 59.94Hz and 60Hz
1280x720p - 59.94Hz and 60Hz
1920x1080i - 59.94Hz and 60Hz
1920x1080p - 23.976Hz, 24Hz, 29.97Hz, 30Hz, 59.94Hz and 60Hz

Notice there is no mention of 25Hz or 50Hz for any resolution.

You are mistaken about monitors too. The video card and software change the video frame rate to match one of the monitor's supported vertical refresh rates prior to output, so there is no problem displaying it. There is usually a list of supported input resolutions and vertical refresh rates in the manual. 60Hz and 59.94Hz are common, although some support 50Hz, 70Hz and/or 75Hz too. Gaming monitors can go up to 144Hz.

[Krispy Kritter]

I've honestly never checked the standard as it's not a factor for playback (for me anyway). It wouldn't surprise me if it simply defaults to NTSC as (noted above) there isn't a "standard" for HD content. In any case, you could contact the maker > https://mediaarea.net/en/MediaInfo/Support

[hello_hello]

No. I checked the manual for my 2011 LG 32LK330 TV. Listed below are the supported refresh rates/frame rates and resolutions for HDMI (non-PC) input:
720x480p - 59.94Hz and 60Hz
1280x720p - 59.94Hz and 60Hz
1920x1080i - 59.94Hz and 60Hz
1920x1080p - 23.976Hz, 24Hz, 29.97Hz, 30Hz, 59.94Hz and 60Hz

Notice there is no mention of 25Hz or 50Hz for any resolution.

There probably doesn't need to be. The display doesn't have to refresh at 50Hz to display 25fps. I live in PAL land and there's two Bluray Players in our house. When playing MKV/MP4 files via the Bluray player's USB input, one of them is clever and switches the TV to 50Hz for 25fps video (the TV displays the refresh rate when it changes). The other Bluray player doesn't and the TV stays refreshing at 60Hz. That player only switches the refresh rate to 50Hz when playing discs. It'll still play video of any frame rate via USB though, and the TV will still display it. I'd hazard a guess (I haven't tried to work it out) that when playing video via my TV's built in USB player, the screen always refreshes at 60Hz regardless of the frame rate.
For 25fps on a 59.940Hz display there'd be a frame dropped now and then (one frame every five minutes maybe?), unless it's slowed to 24.975fps, but the same thing applies to playing 24fps video on a 59.940Hz display (as opposed to 23.976fps).

You are mistaken about monitors too. The video card and software change the video frame rate to match one of the monitor's supported vertical refresh rates prior to output, so there is no problem displaying it. There is usually a list of supported input resolutions and vertical refresh rates in the manual. 60Hz and 59.94Hz are common, although some support 50Hz, 70Hz and/or 75Hz too. Gaming monitors can go up to 144Hz.

If the refresh rate isn't a multiple of the video frame rate, it's just a matter of displaying frames for a varying number of screen refreshes. That's exactly what happens when you display 24fps video on a 60Hz display. A frame displays for two refreshes, the next frame displays for three refreshes, the next displays for two, then three.... and so on. 24 goes into 60 for "progressive" pulldown. You can make 25 go into 60 too but it mightn't be quite as smooth.
25fps on a 60Hz display.... fifteen frames would display for two refreshes and 10 frames display for three refreshes, I think. (15x2)+(10x3)=60
50fps on a 60Hz display.... every fifth frame displays for two refreshes instead of one. Something like that.... (40x1)+(10x2)=60

Displaying video that way isn't perfectly smooth but I'm not overly sensitive to it. Motion has to be fairly slow and smooth before I notice it's not as smooth as it could be. Repeating whole frames would be a different story though (ie repeating one frame in five to convert 24fps to 30fps). I find that almost unwatchable.

[usually_quiet]

No. I checked the manual for my 2011 LG 32LK330 TV. Listed below are the supported refresh rates/frame rates and resolutions for HDMI (non-PC) input:
720x480p - 59.94Hz and 60Hz
1280x720p - 59.94Hz and 60Hz
1920x1080i - 59.94Hz and 60Hz
1920x1080p - 23.976Hz, 24Hz, 29.97Hz, 30Hz, 59.94Hz and 60Hz

Notice there is no mention of 25Hz or 50Hz for any resolution.

There probably doesn't need to be. The display doesn't have to refresh at 50Hz to display 25fps. I live in PAL land and there's two Bluray Players in our house. When playing MKV/MP4 files via the Bluray player's USB input, one of them is clever and switches the TV to 50Hz for 25fps video (the TV displays the refresh rate when it changes). The other Bluray player doesn't and the TV stays refreshing at 60Hz. That player only switches the refresh rate to 50Hz when playing discs. It'll still play video of any frame rate via USB though, and the TV will still display it. I'd hazard a guess (I haven't tried to work it out) that when playing video via my TV's built in USB player, the screen always refreshes at 60Hz regardless of the frame rate.
For 25fps on a 59.940Hz display there'd be a frame dropped now and then (one frame every five minutes maybe?), unless it's slowed to 24.975fps, but the same thing applies to playing 24fps video on a 59.940Hz display (as opposed to 23.976fps).

I already wrote in post #6 that some Blu-ray players are able to convert "PAL" resolutions and/or frame rates to "NTSC" resolutions and/or frame rates for N. American TVs when connected via HDMI.

My mother has a Philips DVD player that can be set up to output 480p60 or 576p50 via HDMI. (I tested her 2015 Samsung smart TV over the weekend to confirm what the manual said, that it is able to accept 576p50 HDMI input.) My DVD recorder can just convert from 576i25 to 480p60 when playing a PAL DVD, so I'll have to borrow her DVD player to see what happens when my LG TV is fed a signal that the manual doesn't list as supported.

[Edit]In N. America it is possible to experience problems with either the TV or the player or both when playing "PAL" optical media. My old Panasonic DVD recorder would just display an error code for "Incompatible Disc" if I loaded a PAL DVD (region free of course).

[hello_hello]

Playing a PAL DVD and converting it to an NTSC output for a TV that only accepts 480i is one thing, and I'm not sure my Bluray player would do that (no need as PAL TVs accept either these days), but 1080p isn't PAL or NTSC and all Bluray players upscale to 1080p. The refresh rate at which the player and TV connect shouldn't restrict the frame rates a player supports for standalone files.

[usually_quiet]

but 1080p isn't PAL or NTSC and all Bluray players upscale to 1080p. The refresh rate at which the player and TV connect shouldn't restrict the frame rates a player supports for standalone files.

I was aware of that when I wrote "Blu-ray players and built-in TV media players may convert the video and output a signal the TV can display." in post #6. and I also know that 1080p video can be 23.976fps, 24fps, 25fps 29.97fps, 30fps, 50fps, 59.94fps or 60fps. ...but I still suspect my LG TV, like many other HDTVs here would have a problem with 25Hz and 50Hz signals delivered by HDMI or analog, even though its built-in media player does support 1080p25 and 720p50 video. I may be able to find out for certain tonight.

..and Blu-ray players didn't always support standalone file playback. Up until a few years ago it was still possible to find some that only played authored DVD and Blu-ray discs. I saw some in 2012 when shopping for a Blu-ray player to give to my parents for Christmas. It would not surprise me if those same models rejected authored DVD and Blu-ray discs that did not conform to the resolutions and frame rates for authored DVDs and authored Blu-rays produced for distribution in N. America. The entertainment industry has historically encouraged that situation to enforce control over distribution.

[hello_hello]

If your TV's media player supports 1080p25 and 720p50 even if it's display doesn't refresh at 50Hz, what made you say people in the U.S. must still be mindful of frame rates when playing HD video? I don't understand the problem.

MY TVs probably no different. Regardless of the frame rate I strongly suspect it always refreshes at 60Hz when using it's built in media player, although I haven't tried to confirm it.

PAL players and TVs largely seem to be NTSC players and TVs with PAL abilities added on. At least one of the Bluray players here connects to the TV at 60Hz for displaying it's own menus and settings, it stays connected at 60Hz when playing video via USB, and the only time it switches the TV to 50Hz is when it's playing a PAL DVD (and possibly a 25fps Bluray).

[usually_quiet]

If your TV's media player supports 1080p25 and 720p50 even if it's display doesn't refresh at 50Hz, what made you say people in the U.S. must still be mindful of frame rates when playing HD video? I don't understand the problem.

After all the posts here from people living in N. America who are unable view an imported DVD or Blu-ray disc on their TV, I am astonished that you are unable to understand that viewing 25 fps video or 50fps video on a TV is often a problem here.

The reason why often turns out to be:

A. They don't have a computer that they can to connect to their HDTV to play the video.

B. They are one of the many who own N. American HDTVs without media players, and without the ability to accept video input at 25Hz or 50hz via HDMI or analog connections.

C. They are one of many who owns a N. American model DVD player or Blu-ray player that will accept and play an imported region-free PAL DVD or Blu-ray disc but doesn't change the frame rate or convert the resolution to something that the N. American HDTV connected to it will accept.

D. They don't own a Blu-ray player that can play standalone files and don't own a dedicated media player.

[Edit] BTW I confirmed that my LG TV doesn't support video 576p50 video input via HDMI. The option for that was visible on the DVD player menu but unavailable.

[hello_hello]

We're talking about a 25fps 1080p file here. Not being able to play PAL DVDs because you have an NTSC only set-up is something else entirely. Aside from the format difference, discs are also restricted by region. Nothing to do with frame rates. I understand that. I don't understand the problem playing a 25fps 1080p HD video.

1. Without a computer connected to a HDTV you can't use it to play files of any frame rate and display them on the TV.

2. Frame rates aren't restricted to particular refresh rates for HD. 25Hz or 50Hz input isn't required. That only applies to PAL or NTSC, not HD.

3. That's about playing PAL or NTSC discs and nothing to do with playing a 25fps 1080p MP4. There's no difference between a 24fps 1080p MP4 and a 25fps 1080p MP4 aside from the fact the frames are going by just a little faster. There's nothing to convert. The frame rate doesn't have to be changed.

4. Then they won't be playing 24fps 1080p either. Do they at least own a TV??

Pick a frame rate. Any frame rate and I'll create an MKV to play at that frame rate and show MadVR displaying it on my TV while it refreshes at 60Hz. Here's one I just made playing at 34.862fps. There's nothing special about a PC. Any HD player should be able to up-scale that to 1080p and play it at the correct speed.

[usually_quiet]

We're talking about a 25fps 1080p file here. Not being able to play PAL DVDs because you have an NTSC only set-up is something else entirely. Aside from the format difference, discs are also restricted by region. Nothing to do with frame rates. I understand that. I don't understand the problem playing a 25fps 1080p HD video.

.....

Any HD player should be able to up-scale that to 1080p and play it at the correct speed.

You are assuming that every Blu-ray player will apply pull down when necessary to provide video over HDMI at a refresh rate which the TV it is connected to supports, but that isn't true. Some output 1080i video at the frame rate that is used on the Blu-ray disc or double that for 1080p or 720p output. While that apparently isn't a problem in Australia, if I had such a player connected to my LG TV via HDMI and played a region free 1080i25 Blu-ray from the UK (I'm told that many movies released on Blu-ray are region free), there would be a problem. My LG TV doesn't support 25Hz or 50Hz over HDMI.

[hello_hello]

I'm assuming if a Bluray player can play an MP4/MKV via USB it'll play it regardless of the frame rate (up to the maximum it supports). It'll do so even if it can only connect to the TV at 60Hz. I'm assuming a media player built into the TV would play it also, even if it keeps refreshing at 60Hz. I'm assuming pretty much any standalone player capable of connecting to a TV at 1080p and 60Hz would be able to play it without a problem. That's the type of file the OP was asking about. I don't know why you keep referring to playing discs. I've acknowledged you may have format or region issues when it comes to playing PAL discs with an NTSC player.

Not only will most HD standalone players connect to a TV at 60Hz and play 25fps video, I'd be willing to bet the majority support variable frame rate video, given both MKV and MP4 support it. I haven't tested all the players here but the media player in my TV didn't have a problem playing a VFR MKV when I tested it.
Can you provide a real world example of an NTSC player that'll play 24fps or 30fps MKVs and MP4s but won't play them if the frame rate is 25fps?

[usually_quiet]

I'm assuming if a Bluray player can play an MP4/MKV via USB it'll play it regardless of the frame rate (up to the maximum it supports). It'll do so even if it can only connect to the TV at 60Hz. I'm assuming a media player built into the TV would play it also, even if it keeps refreshing at 60Hz. I'm assuming pretty much any standalone player capable of connecting to a TV at 1080p and 60Hz would be able to play it without a problem. That's the type of file the OP was asking about. I don't know why you keep referring to playing discs. I've acknowledged you may have format or region issues when it comes to playing PAL discs with an NTSC player.

Not only will most HD standalone players connect to a TV at 60Hz and play 25fps video, I'd be willing to bet the majority support variable frame rate video, given both MKV and MP4 support it. I haven't tested all the players here but the media player in my TV didn't have a problem playing a VFR MKV when I tested it.
Can you provide a real world example of an NTSC player that'll play 24fps or 30fps MKVs and MP4s but won't play them if the frame rate is 25fps?

I acknowledged that computers, most media players work for playing 25fps and 50fps video over here, starting early in this thread. Why are you still going on about that? Are you demented?

I'm taking about authored Blu-ray and authored DVD because that is where we in N. America have ongoing problems with incompatible frame rates for HDMI and analog connections on TVs. You don't seem to think a problem exists.

I know it must seem like peculiar behavior to you, but some people still author discs from their camera files to accommodate relatives who do not have media players or a computer, or because they themselves prefer authored media.

Not everybody watches stand alone media files. Nor does everyone have media players or a computer connected to their TV like you do. Not all HDTVs have built-in media players, nor do all Blu-ray players have built-in media players. Not everyone has a stand-alone media player either.

Some people still watch most video on authored DVD and Blu-ray even with a media player at their disposal. My mother (over 90 years old) is in that category, but she prefers using DVDs because the DVD player is easier to operate.

[hello_hello]

I acknowledged that computers, most media players work for playing 25fps and 50fps video over here, starting early in this thread. Why are you still going on about that? Are you demented?

Hello!!!! The OP asked about a 1080p 25fps video, not a PAL DVD being played in an NTSC DVD player connected to the TV via an analogue input.... which has nothing to do with playing a 25fps 1080p MP4.

I'm taking about authored Blu-ray and authored DVD because that is where we in N. America have ongoing problems with incompatible frame rates for HDMI and analog connections on TVs. You don't seem to think a problem exists.

"Playing a PAL DVD and converting it to an NTSC output for a TV that only accepts 480i is one thing, and I'm not sure my Bluray player would do that.... but 1080p isn't PAL or NTSC".

"We're talking about a 25fps 1080p file here. Not being able to play PAL DVDs because you have an NTSC only set-up is something else entirely."

"That's the type of file the OP was asking about. I don't know why you keep referring to playing discs. I've acknowledged you may have format or region issues when it comes to playing PAL discs with an NTSC player."

And you're claiming I don't seem to think a problem exists?

I know it must seem like peculiar behavior to you, but some people still author discs from their camera files to accommodate relatives who do not have media players or a computer, or because they themselves prefer authored media.

To me it'd seem way more peculiar to set a camera to record at 25fps as the OP did, if he planned to use the video for authoring a Blu-ray he'd be playing on NTSC equipment. That'd be peculiar behaviour indeed.

Not everybody watches stand alone media files. Nor does everyone have media players or a computer connected to their TV like you do. Not all HDTVs have built-in media players, nor do all Blu-ray players have built-in media players. Not everyone has a stand-alone media player either.

What's left? People using VCRs?

Some people still watch most video on authored DVD and Blu-ray even with a media player at their disposal. My mother (over 90 years old) is in that category, but she prefers using DVDs because the DVD player is easier to operate.

She must have a particularly unfriendly media player if she finds a DVD player easier to operate, but I suspect..... and correct me if I'm wrong..... if the OP gave your mother the 1080p 25fps MP4 he enquired about, she'd have to play it with something that's not a DVD player wouldn't she? And if she has a player that'll play stand-alone files at 1080p, would you expect it to reject the video because it's 25fps?

[johnmeyer]

I just got around to putting a few random 25 fps files onto a USB memory stick and then plugging that into the USB port on my Samsung TV set. No media player, other than what is built into the TV. I live in North America. All three files played just fine, although two of them would not play any audio because the "audio codec was not recognized."

File 1: 1920x1080 16:9 25 fps AVC codec bitrate: variable
File 2: 636x472 4:3 25 fps WMV3 codec bitrate: 86.8 kbps
File 3: 640x352 16:9 25 fps bitrate: 1,537 kbps

I just looked at the documentation for my Samsung TV, and while it obviously is limited to certain codecs (something that is true of any player), and it is also limited to 1920x1080 (it is five years old an not a 4K set), neither the documentation nor my tests show any indication of fps being a limiting factor. Put another way, the TV will play any frame rate without a problem, and certainly plays 25 fps material, even at odd resolutions. It also doesn't seem to care at all about resolution, as long as it is 1920x1080 or lower.

I'm pretty sure this is true of any other set made in the past five years (or more).

[usually_quiet]

I explain when and why the problem occurs, and all you can do is argue with me about media players, which I agree work! Both of you are demented.

[hello_hello]

I explain when and why the problem occurs, and all you can do is argue with me about media players, which I agree work! Both of you are demented.

I figured your argument would eventually be refined to name calling, but if you've already agreed playing 25fps standalone files using a media player will work, why do you keep arguing? Probably because it's not quite true even though you keep saying it is. The closest you came to agreeing was the following and it's simply wrong. There's no PAL resolution to convert for HD video. Frame rates aren't converted.

I already wrote in post #6 that some Blu-ray players are able to convert "PAL" resolutions and/or frame rates to "NTSC" resolutions and/or frame rates for N. American TVs when connected via HDMI.

Let me remind you of the statement you made that started the discussion, and the one from which you've been furiously back-peddling ever since by trying to make it about it about playing PAL discs on an NTSC player, or some such irrelevance.

Plus, it seems that only those of us in N. America must still be mindful frame rate when playing HD video. Many N. American HD TVs only accept 29.97fps, 59.94fps or 60fps input, especially from analog video connections. I don't think that is the case in other places.

With the possible exception of 25fps Bluray discs (where a player might refuse to play them due to region restrictions or because it's deliberately crippled by the manufacturer to make it Bluray compliant), the frame rate when playing HD video on NTSC equipment is irrelevant. The refresh rate is irrelevant. It's nothing to do with your mother's preference for using a DVD player, and somehow offering that fun fact to support your argument wasn't demented. Why are you still arguing about it?

[hello_hello]

I just looked at the documentation for my Samsung TV, and while it obviously is limited to certain codecs (something that is true of any player), and it is also limited to 1920x1080 (it is five years old an not a 4K set), neither the documentation nor my tests show any indication of fps being a limiting factor. Put another way, the TV will play any frame rate without a problem, and certainly plays 25 fps material, even at odd resolutions. It also doesn't seem to care at all about resolution, as long as it is 1920x1080 or lower.

I'm pretty sure this is true of any other set made in the past five years (or more).

My Samsung TV is about the same age. The internal manual (under Advanced/Video) for MKV and MP4 says 1920x1080, 6fps-30fps, and 8Mbps for older formats such as Xvid, 25Mbps for h264. From experience it supports High Profile, Level 4.1 with those frame rate and bitrate restrictions.
Interestingly.... for more traditional file types containing mpeg1 or mpeg2 video (VOB, PS, TS) the manual says it only supports frame rates of 24fps, 25fps and 30fps, but h264 or VC1 in a TS or PS file can be 6fps-30fsp, so maybe usually_quiet could be awarded a couple of mpeg2 points for correctness, even though none of us would encode mpeg2 for anything but DVD compliance anyway.
mpeg2 is not listed as a supported video type for MKV, and from memory it won't play it, but I'd have to check.

Not that I'd take the manual as being 100% accurate. It doesn't list AAC as a supported audio type for MKV but it's always played it. For your NTSC TV though, you might find you're restricted to 24fps and 30fps for mpeg2 video even if it doesn't care about frame rates for other codecs. I can't say I've played enough mpeg2 video to know if that's true or that I even care, but anything from 6fps to 30fps should be okay for most video types. I think the Samsung Bluray player here has pretty much the same restrictions while the Sony happily plays higher frame rates and bitrates for full Level 4.1 support (or maybe higher). These days, I think Level 4.2 is becoming the standard supported by 1080p players, if it's not already.

Like your TV, mine is 5 years old (as are the Bluray players). Newer TVs/players might be less restricted. They might cope with a frame rate as low as 4fps.

Edit: Here's a manual for NTSC Sumsung TVs. It looks like it'll play 25fps mpeg2 video too.
http://support-us.samsung.com/nas/storage/201306131733051%5Estorage_attachment%5EF6300...0_e-Manual.pdf

[usually_quiet]

@hello hello: Since your favorite strategy for winning arguments is to ignore or pretend to misunderstand what the person who is arguing with you says, until the name-calling begins, allowing you to declare victory, you must be very pleased with this outcome.

I have been explaining what I was referring to. How is that backpedaling?. ...and as I keep telling you my TV's HDMI connections won't accept 25fps HD video from an HDMI connected Blu-ray player that doesn't apply pulldown when playing authored media. Some don't apply pulldown.

[hello_hello]

@hello hello: Since your favorite strategy for winning arguments is to ignore or pretend to misunderstand what the person who is arguing with you says, until the name-calling begins, allowing you to declare victory, you must be very pleased with this outcome.

Yeah yeah yeah.... are you convincing yourself at least, because the rest of see you backpeddling furiously and trying to deny what you said.
"Plus, it seems that only those of us in N. America must still be mindful frame rate when playing HD video. Many N. American HD TVs only accept 29.97fps, 59.94fps or 60fps input, especially from analog video connections. I don't think that is the case in other places."

I have been explaining what I was referring to. How is that backpedaling?. ...

You've never agreed that NTSC TV's/players can display 25fps without having to convert it, so implying you have is untrue.
The topic has always been about playing 25fps HD video. Remember? The OP asked about a 25fps 1080p MP4
"Plus, it seems that only those of us in N. America must still be mindful frame rate when playing HD video."
It's not about DVD players or PAL or whatever you're trying to pretend it was about so you don't have to admit you were wrong.

...and as I keep telling you my TV's HDMI connections won't accept 25fps HD video from an HDMI connected Blu-ray player that doesn't apply pulldown when playing authored media. Some don't apply pulldown.

That's a new one. Nobody says your TV has to accept anything but a standard 60Hz connection. Some don't apply pulldown..... now you're just funnin' with me, aren't you? What happens? The player tries to connect to your TV at 60Hz and the TV says..... "hang on a minute, before we connect, will you be applying pulldown and what frame rates do you propose to decode?"
Do you still not understand the distinction between refresh rate and frame rate? Is that the problem? Do you think your TV will connect to a Bluray player but if you try to play a 25fps MKV with it the TV will disconnect and refuse to connect until you promise never to do it again? How does this pulldown thing work exactly?

This is a Samsung NTSC TV as per the link in my previous post. It's probably around the same vintage as mine. I'm very sure the specs for their NTSC Bluray players would be the same for standalone files. Pulldown...... the display refreshes at 60Hz. Do you think the TV somehow displays 25fps video differently when it's decoded by it's own media player rather than a HDMI media player, or do you imagine it's somehow decoded differently? What is it about this you still don't understand that's causing you to keep arguing?

[usually_quiet]

@hello hello: Since your favorite strategy for winning arguments is to ignore or pretend to misunderstand what the person who is arguing with you says, until the name-calling begins, allowing you to declare victory, you must be very pleased with this outcome.

Yeah yeah yeah.... are you convincing yourself at least, because the rest of see you backpeddling furiously and trying to deny what you said.
"Plus, it seems that only those of us in N. America must still be mindful frame rate when playing HD video. Many N. American HD TVs only accept 29.97fps, 59.94fps or 60fps input, especially from analog video connections. I don't think that is the case in other places."

I have been explaining what I was referring to. How is that backpedaling?. ...

You've never agreed that NTSC TV's/players can display 25fps without having to convert it, so implying you have is untrue.
The topic has always been about playing 25fps HD video. Remember? The OP asked about a 25fps 1080p MP4
"Plus, it seems that only those of us in N. America must still be mindful frame rate when playing HD video."
It's not about DVD players or PAL or whatever you're trying to pretend it was about so you don't have to admit you were wrong.

...and as I keep telling you my TV's HDMI connections won't accept 25fps HD video from an HDMI connected Blu-ray player that doesn't apply pulldown when playing authored media. Some don't apply pulldown.

That's a new one. Nobody says you're TV has to accept anything but a standard 60Hz connection. Some don't apply pulldown..... now you're just funnin' with me, aren't you? What happens? The player tries to connect to your TV at 60Hz and the TV says..... "hang on a minute, before we connect, will you be applying pulldown and what frame rates do you propose to decode?"
Do you still not understand the distinction between refresh rate and frame rate? Is that the problem? Do you think your TV will connect to a Bluray player but if you try to play a 25fps MKV with it the TV will disconnect and refuse to connect again until you promise never to do it again? How does it work exactly?

This is a Samsung NTSC TV as per the link in my previous post. At least the same vintage as mine. Pulldown...... the display refreshes at 60Hz. Do you think the TV somehow displays 25fps video differently when it's decoded by it's own media player rather than a HDMI media player, or do you imagine it's somehow decoded differently? What is about this you still don't understand that's causing you to keep arguing?


[Attachment 39072 - Click to enlarge]

Read this, jackass, and you will see that not all Blu-ray players in the US apply pulldown to 25i Blu-ray: https://www.amazon.com/forum/blu-ray?_encoding=UTF8&cdForum=Fx2R11KXGJPWBTU&cdThread=TxEYJ54RLC52LR

Some Blu-ray players here won't play 25i Blu-ray at all. A few Blu-ray players sold here are multi-system, and were not designed to apply pulldown to 25i content because it is assumed that the TV they are connected to will also be multi-system, and the video won't display on a non-multisystem US TV.

[Edit]It amazes me that you still don't understand that there have been significant differences between consumer electronics sold here and those sold elsewhere. That situation is starting to change, but there are still millions of people here with older equipment in their homes.

[hello_hello]

Read this, jackass, and you will see that not all Blu-ray players in the US apply pulldown to 25i Blu-ray: https://www.amazon.com/forum/blu-ray?_encoding=UTF8&cdForum=Fx2R11KXGJPWBTU&cdThread=TxEYJ54RLC52LR

Sorry, but I'm obviously arguing with an idiot. How many times do I have to state I know there may be issues playing 25fps Bluray discs with an NTSC player due to format or region restrictions? Would it be as many times as I've got to repeat "IT'S NOT THE TOPIC" before you get it through your thick head and stop trying to back peddle by pretending it is? The OP asked about a 25fps 1080P MP4. If you want to discuss playing 25fps Bluray discs, start a new thread and argue with yourself.

[Edit]It amazes me that you still don't understand that there have been significant differences between consumer electronics sold here and those sold elsewhere. That situation is starting to change, but there are still millions of people here with older equipment in their homes.

What I understand fully, which is apparently beyond your ability to comprehend, is those "millions" of people won't be attempting to play a 1080p 25fps MP4 with a player that doesn't support MP4 playback. Show me an example of a player that'll play a 24fps 1080p MP4 but refuses to play the same video at 25fps and I'll admit you're right. Just one. That'll do. I'm waiting.....

[usually_quiet]

Read this, jackass, and you will see that not all Blu-ray players in the US apply pulldown to 25i Blu-ray: https://www.amazon.com/forum/blu-ray?_encoding=UTF8&cdForum=Fx2R11KXGJPWBTU&cdThread=TxEYJ54RLC52LR

Sorry, but I'm obviously arguing with an idiot. How many times do I have to state I know there may be issues playing 25fps Bluray discs with an NTSC player due to format or region restrictions? Would it be as many times as I've got to repeat "IT'S NOT THE TOPIC" before you get it through your thick head and stop trying to back peddle by pretending it is? The OP asked about a 25fps 1080P MP4. If you want to discuss playing 25fps Bluray discs, start a new thread and argue with yourself.

[Edit]It amazes me that you still don't understand that there have been significant differences between consumer electronics sold here and those sold elsewhere. That situation is starting to change, but there are still millions of people here with older equipment in their homes.

What I understand fully, which is apparently beyond your ability to comprehend, is those "millions" of people won't be attempting to play a 1080p 25fps MP4 with a player that doesn't support MP4 playback. Show me an example of a player that'll play a 24fps 1080p MP4 but refuses to play the same video at 25fps and I'll admit you're right. Just one. That'll do. I'm waiting.....

I explain in great detail exactly what I meant, and provide evidence that this problem exists, and you refuse to accept that I actually meant that, refuse to believe the evidence, accuse me of backpedaling, and go on and on about media players, which I agree typically work for playing the content in question

LOL There are dozens of people who come here for help every year because they are attempting to play video file formats which their TV media player or another media player doesn't support.

You should go argue with yourself, because obviously you enjoy arguing for no reason at all.

[Krispy Kritter]

And this topic was NOT about file playback nor support, it was about why MediaInfo is showing a file noted as "NTSC".