DVD playback (decoding?) glitches in some software only... help!

[djpeanut]

Hi,

Apologies that my first post is a request for help, but I've got a thousand copies of a newly released DVD next to me... and boy do they have problems.

These DVDs contain a feature film, some extra features, and all the usual titles and menus. They appear to work fine on standalone DVD/BluRay players (including my 15 year old DVD player), and on certain PC playback software, e.g. Cyberlink PowerDVD:



However, when I load up other software and play the feature, all hell breaks loose with the video. Here's Windows Media Player 9:



And Media Player Classic + K-Lite Mega Codec Pack:




I've tried this on a couple of PCs. Same result. All my other DVDs play perfectly - it's just the thousand copies of this one that don't!

Here's the strange part... the glitches only appear in the title menu and main feature. They start in the feature after about 1'30" of playback and grow increasingly bad. The audio is fine. And the bonus features play absolutely fine too!

So I'm stumped, and would love to hear your expert theories on what's happened here so I can call up the authoring/replication house and ask why they've just sent me 1,000 expensive drinks coasters...

TIA!

[Baldrick]

Wmp and mpchc might use same decoders/ filters while powerdvd has it own decoder. Try also play with vlc media player.

[djpeanut]

VLC plays fine. Thanks for suggesting it.

What I'm really interested in is how to diagnose the problem with the DVD itself. No other DVD has this issue, it's just this film on this software. There must be an underlying cause...

[Baldrick]

Can you upload a very short vob sample from the dvd? You can use makesample, choose the first main vob. So we can test and see if something is wrong.

Or/And post the details from the main vob. Use mediainfo, view->text and copy everything.

[gonca]

encryption issue?

[hello_hello]

If I was to take a guess, after reading this thread so far, I'd probably be looking in the direction of the K-Lite Mega Codec pack.
It seems a little co-incidental that two DirectShow players don't play the DVD properly while the two non-DirectShow players do.

K-Lite installs a modified version of MPC-HC, which has most of it's internal filters removed.
Although now MPC-HC uses LAV Filters internally that may have changed, but I suspect not, in which case it's going to be fairly reliant
on system filters. You could probably confirm it by downloading the standard MPC-HC and giving it a spin. There's a standalone
version which just needs to be downloaded, unzipped and run. No installation required.

I'd probably run it, go into it's options and check "save settings to an ini file" (which should stop it from changing any settings in the
Registry which might effect the version of MPC-HC K-Lite installed) then I'd use the Reset button under Options/Miscellaneous to ensure
it's running on default settings, and finally I'd try playing one of the problem DVDs.

[djpeanut]

Thanks for all of the leads so far!

Here's the MediaInfo report from the first of the main feature's VOB files:

General
Complete name : F:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_02_1.VOB
Format : MPEG-PS
File size : 1 024 MiB
Duration : 25mn 23s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 5 639 Kbps


Video
ID : 224 (0xE0)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@Main
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, Matrix : Default
Format settings, GOP : Variable
Duration : 25mn 23s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 5 079 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 8 000 Kbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 576 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Standard : PAL
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.490
Time code of first frame : 00:00:00:00
Time code source : Group of pictures header
Stream size : 922 MiB (90%)


Audio #1
ID : 189 (0xBD)-128 (0x80)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension : CM (complete main)
Format settings, Endianness : Big
Muxing mode : DVD-Video
Duration : 25mn 22s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 256 Kbps
Channel count : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Delay relative to video : -80ms
Stream size : 46.5 MiB (5%)


Audio #2
ID : 189 (0xBD)-129 (0x81)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension : CM (complete main)
Format settings, Endianness : Big
Muxing mode : DVD-Video
Duration : 25mn 22s

Back shortly with a VOB sample...

[djpeanut]

Some more info that might help, this is from MPEGValidator and Bitrate Analyser on the same VOB file:

MPEG-2 Validator v1.4.0.131 - 07/12/2013 19:38:59

File under analysis: "F:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_02_1.VOB"..!

Begin Process:

Begin Program Streams Summary:
Missing Progam End Code...
File "F:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_02_1.VOB" is a DVD MPEG-2 Program Stream
MPEG file size 1023.83 MB
MPEG Packs = 524202
Sectors delay = 0.0 ms
System headers = 3174
Rate Bound = 10080000 bps -> 9843 Kbps
Video Bound = 1 active video streams
Audio Bound = 2 active audio streams
Variable Bitrate Operation (System MPEG-2 VBR)
Video Picture Rate is locked to SCR
Audio Sampling Rate is locked to SCR
MPEG Pack Size = 2048
Packets per Pack = 1
Program Mux Rate = 9843 Kbps
Total PES packets = 533041
PES Packet Lenght Max. = 2028
Number of Video Streams: 1
*Number of Audio Streams: 2
Private Stream 1, ID: BD, packets = 49345, Total = 94306 KB
Substream (DVD): Subpicture stream 20, PES packets = 728, total bytes = 1171664
Substream (DVD): Subpicture stream 21, PES packets = 731, total bytes = 1206308
Substream (DVD): Subpicture stream 22, PES packets = 709, total bytes = 1118868
Substream (DVD): Subpicture stream 23, PES packets = 745, total bytes = 1188782
Substream (DVD): Subpicture stream 24, PES packets = 483, total bytes = 698292
Substream (DVD): Subpicture stream 25, PES packets = 522, total bytes = 817320
Substream (DVD): Subpicture stream 26, PES packets = 600, total bytes = 939648
Substream (DVD): Subpicture stream 27, PES packets = 738, total bytes = 1195074
Substream (DVD): Subpicture stream 28, PES packets = 549, total bytes = 824620
Substream (DVD): Subpicture stream 29, PES packets = 544, total bytes = 838530
Substream (DVD): Subpicture stream 2A, PES packets = 694, total bytes = 1113414
*Substream (DVD): AC3 Audio substream 80
PES packets = 24172,
Total = 47588 KB
*Substream (DVD): AC3 Audio substream 81
PES packets = 18130,
Total = 35693 KB
Padding Stream, packets = 5665, Total = 5537 KB
Private Stream 2, packets = 6348, Total = 6193 KB
Video stream, ID: E0
Encrypted!!,
PES packets = 471683,
Total = 907.88 MB
End Program Streams Summary.


Begin Video Streams Summary:
*Sequence_end_code NOT FOUND, in Stream E0!!
Video Delay Stream E0 = 440.0 ms
Number of Frames = 2358 -> 94.32 Sec
Number of Sequence Headers = 199
Sequence Headers Aligned = Yes
Horizontal Size = 720
Vertical Size = 576
*Aspect Ratio = 16:9
Frame Rate = 25 fps
P-STD Buffer Size Bound = 0 KB (From System Header)
VBV Buffer Size = 112 -> (224 KB)
Stream Type = MPEG-2 MP@ML VBR
Chroma Format = 4:2:0
Picture Structure = Frame
Intra DC Precision = 9
*Top Field First = No
*DCT Type = Frame
Quant. Scale = Nonlinear
Scan Type = Alternate
Frame Type = Interlaced
Number of GOPs = 198
First GOP Closed = Yes
Number of Closed GOP = 1
Max. frames per GOP (without first & last) = 24
Min. frames per GOP (without first & last) = 12
Avg. frames per GOP (Total) = 11.91
Max. Frame Size = 157374
Min. Frame Size = 1828
Average Frame Size = 25392
Frames I = 198 -> 8%
Avg. Frame I Size = 295 KB
Frames I Total Size = 23981807 bytes, size 40%
Frames P = 590 -> 25%
Avg. Frame P Size = 99 KB
Frames P Total Size = 13711132 bytes, size 22%
Frames B = 1569 -> 66%
Avg. Frame B Size = 37 KB
Frames B Total Size = 22142693 bytes, size 36%
Nominal bitrate (Sequence Header) = 8000000 bps -> 7812 Kbps
Average Bitrate = 4959 Kbps
Peak Bitrate (1 sec) = 7000 Kbps
End Video Streams Summary.


Begin Audio Streams Summary:
End Audio Streams Summary.

Video Stream Duration: 94.32 sec -> 94:08 (secs:frames)

Duration Difference from Video to Audio = 94320 msec
Initial Delay Audio to Video (PTS based) = -440 msec

Processing time: 00:01:26

Result:
Compliance Test: Fail!!

End.

[djpeanut]

Update: SMPlayer and KMPlayer both play the disc without issue. It's ONLY MPC-HC and WMP that don't like this VOB.

[djpeanut]

Here as requested is a VOB sample; 55MB from the first VOB of the main feature. I'd be eternally grateful for any clues as to why MPC-HC and WMP seem to hate this disc so much. The errors generally begin to appear about 1:30 into the feature (funnily enough, as the bitrate seems to increase).

[djpeanut]

Any ideas, folks? Tearing my hair out over this, and the authoring company deny any issue whatsoever...

[Baldrick]

It works fine in mpchc and wmp 12 here. Windows 7 64bit.

It contains several subtitle tracks. Should it do that?

[Nelson37]

As already mentioned, I would point t K-Lite as the likely problem. Every error condition is likely using it, every correct play condition is not.

Combine this with the well-known history of problems related to this codec pack.

Test on other PC that do NOT have this crapware installed. Test on other PC with VLC, which does not use K-Lite.

IMO the problem is of your creation and there is very likely nothing at all wrong with the DVD.

Any info on the mfgr of the disks themselves?

[djpeanut]

I've tried in WMP / MPC-HC on 6 different Win7 PCs, some with K-lite and some without. All show the same problem. VLC is fine.

The DVD has subtitles in 11 languages. Would that make any difference?

[jagabo]

Right click on the window while playing in MPCHC, hover over "Filters". What filters are in use? Try selecting them to configure them. See if you can get rid of the problem.

[Baldrick]

The DVD has subtitles in 11 languages. Would that make any difference?

Nope. It should work fine.


The clip is shorter than 1.30 so I guess we can't see any error? Or do you get same errors in that short clip?

If not then make a biggggger clip.

[djpeanut]

I see. I'll make a bigger sample as the errors kick in just after 1:30.

Let's forget K-Lite. I've just discovered the following with VLC:


1. Playing the DVD disc with Win7 / VLC / no K-Lite: WORKING
2. Copying the DVD same disc's contents to the PC, then attempting to play the VIDEO_TS folder as a DVD with the same software (Win7 / VLC): NOT WORKING. (i.e. the same visual glitches as in the OP.)


What does this mean? Is this some kind of copy protection at work, which VLC can handle on an optical drive but MPC / WMP / direct copy cannot?

[djpeanut]

Here's a 100MB VOB sample.

I get errors playing this in WMP, MPC-HC and VLC. (The same disc played off the optical drive of the same PC in VLC works fine.)

[djpeanut]

Did anyone have any ideas about this? We're still at our wits' end...

[Baldrick]

I forgot to test it. Yep. Same problem here in VLC on my macbook pro.

Something must have gone wrong when you copied it to your hdd.

Have you tried copy the dvd from another dvd drive?

Try also copy it with a decrypter like dvddecrypter, etc. Even if it doesn't contain any encryption.

[davexnet]

I downloaded the 99mb VOB and I do see some corruption that starts at around 1.30. Perhaps the file is damaged?

[jagabo]

The video starts out with nice, regular 12 frame GOPs with 2 consecutive b-frames. But after a while switches to irregularly sized GOPs with up to 5 consecutive b-frames. GSpot also shows "temporal sequence discontinuities. The problems start around 90 seconds into the video.

[davexnet]

The video starts out with nice, regular 12 frame GOPs with 2 consecutive b-frames. But after a while switches to irregularly sized GOPs with up to 5 consecutive b-frames. GSpot also shows "temporal sequence discontinuities. The problems start around 90 seconds into the video.

Perhaps the result of undefeated copy protection on the original DVD?

[jagabo]

The video starts out with nice, regular 12 frame GOPs with 2 consecutive b-frames. But after a while switches to irregularly sized GOPs with up to 5 consecutive b-frames. GSpot also shows "temporal sequence discontinuities. The problems start around 90 seconds into the video.

Perhaps the result of undefeated copy protection on the original DVD?

Doubtful.

[djpeanut]

This sounds like what we're seeing. Any idea why it'd be? What does 'undefeated copy protection' mean?

[davexnet]

This sounds like what we're seeing. Any idea why it'd be? What does 'undefeated copy protection' mean?

This means you ripped a commercial DVD, which had some level of copy protection.
What ever program was used, the attempt to remove the protection messed up.

This is just a theory, since I don't think you actually stated where these files came from.

[Baldrick]

How do you copy the dvd folder? Have you tried any rippers?

[djpeanut]

I copied the DVD folder directly using Windows Explorer. It was a commercially-manufactured DVD. I've been informed by the manufacturer that CSS encryption was used. Perhaps we're getting somewhere now...

Going back to the original post, is there any reason why WMP/MPC-HC would be unable to decrypt this particular DVD properly from 1m30s into the main feature, but play the bonus features fine, and play other DVDs fine? Is there more than one kind of CSS encryption? Does it work on a per-title/chapter basis within a single disc?

[jagabo]

In my experience CSS encrypted DVDs play with far more picture corruption if not decrypted. If encryption is the problem the solution is simple: use DVD Fab's free ripping feature and re-rip the DVD. Or DVD Decrypter might work.

[djpeanut]

Thank you, but that doesn't really help in this instance. I'm trying to diagnose a problem, which I've reproduced with a variety of PCs, that occurs when playing this specific commercial DVD in WMP/MPC-HC, direct from the drive. The aim is to avoid the issue when it comes to manufacturing the next run of DVDs. I know that this software relies on unofficial 3rd party software to decrypt and play DVDs, but that doesn't avoid the fact that a hell of a lot of people are using it, and using it problem-free with most other commercial DVDs.

So far it looks like there's no problem with the actual authoring of the disc, but given that copying the contents to a hard drive results in the issue appearing, regardless of the playing software used, it seems that CSS might be the cause. In that case, the solution might be to remove the CSS for the next manufacturing run. I don't care about copy protection; if someone wants to rip a DVD, they will. But I'd like to be reasonably sure that this is the cause of the problem before ordering another 1,000 DVDs!


Hoping that clarifies what I'm trying to get to the bottom of. I really appreciate any expertise shared here, as the company that authored the disc are unable to diagnose it.