Urgent - editing circles within circles

[smrpix]

In AE

Create a comp and place each of your shots on a separate layer.
Create a mask cutting out the internal circle. Copy that mask to each layer you need to see through.
Line up your layers in 2d and scale them so they fit together properly. Don't worry if they get very small.
Turn on the continuous rasterization switch for each layer.

Create a second comp and use the first comp as your source.
(Or just precompose the original layers, same difference.)
Set continuous rasterization on.
Zoom in as desired.

[Brainiac]

Sorry I am late to the party; I had a late night event to film and am just getting back onto the computer:
Great tutorial, smrpix, but might I add enabling 3D switches for each layer and adding a camera in order to zoom in. Also may need to adjust z-axis position for each layer.

Brainiac

[PCC]

Thanks for the help guys. I now have the 6 layers in AE like this: http://s22.postimg.org/ugp7w5lwh/image.png

So I'll go ahead and try what you've said.

[PCC]

Is there a way to make sure the circle masks are centered? (I have two, one for the middle and one for the outside edge.) I used the grid and it looks about right to me, but would be nice to have it definite.

[smrpix]

Is there a way to make sure the circle masks are centered? (I have two, one for the middle and one for the outside edge.) I used the grid and it looks about right to me, but would be nice to have it definite.

You can draw a mask out from the center by getting your cursor to the center (use the info box at the upper right to confirm your position,) clicking and then holding control+shift and then moving outwards.

Clicking 3D options on will allow you to use a camera to do your moves, and precompose won't be necessary. Leave the z axis the same for all layers or you'll get gaps.

[poisondeathray]

Is there a way to make sure the circle masks are centered? (I have two, one for the middle and one for the outside edge.) I used the grid and it looks about right to me, but would be nice to have it definite.

One easy way is to make a solid layer in square dimensions . Eg. if your comp was 1920x1080, make a 1080x1080 "square" solid layer. With the layer selected, double click the elipse tool and it will make a perfect centered circle mask . You can duplicate that mask and use the mask expansion parameters on the masks to adjust their size and set one to "subtract" . You can copy the masks to other layers and delete the solid layer (you're just using it as a "guide" to center the mask)

The other easy way, but not using a mask on a layer, is to use the "circle" effect, but used as a luma matte for the cut out . This usually is not as good approach (extra layer, an additional effect adds overhead and will slow processing down when you get into larger projects with 100's of layers)

[smrpix]

Thanks for the help guys. I now have the 6 layers in AE like this: http://s22.postimg.org/ugp7w5lwh/image.png

They should be stacked and scaled, like this:

[budwzr]

I have the perfect audio/music for that visual. http://files.videohelp.com/u/135518/CircleSong.wav

[PCC]

Thanks for the help guys. I now have the 6 layers in AE like this: http://s22.postimg.org/ugp7w5lwh/image.png

They should be stacked and scaled, like this:

[Attachment 21783 - Click to enlarge]

Ok, but I want to have it zooming out. So it starts in the centre of that, and then the layers creep in from the corners.

[PCC]

Also, reason I haven't done a lot more on it is cos I am re-rendering 5 of the 6 layers.

I went through the composition last night and dragged the "render bar" to each 1:40 section, add to render queue, move on to the next one. Except it rendered all 6 the same as the sixth one. Then I looked it up and apparently you need a separate composition for each one, it doesn't work like it does in Premiere where you can add each one to AME and render all from the same composition?

Anyway, rendering almost done now.

[smrpix]

Ok, but I want to have it zooming out. So it starts in the centre of that, and then the layers creep in from the corners.

Fine. Precomp it as I suggested earlier so all the layers maintain their positions relative to each other.

If you want the illusion of 3d layers coming in, then it's a matter of trial and error to get the timing and spacing right on the z axis.

[PCC]

Ok, but I want to have it zooming out. So it starts in the centre of that, and then the layers creep in from the corners.

Fine. Precomp it as I suggested earlier so all the layers maintain their positions relative to each other.

If you want the illusion of 3d layers coming in, then it's a matter of trial and error to get the timing and spacing right on the z axis.

Ok yeah thanks.

3D layers? Well I just want it how it is now, so 2D I guess.

[budwzr]

He said the "illusion" of 3D layers coming in. He meant using 2.5D to emulate 3D. It's called "Card Animation". Each layer is a "Card", like a playing card, that can be flipped around, zoomed, panned, intersected, etc.

In Vegas, the 3D TrackMotion tool accomplishes this. You can animate in object or global view.

I'm starting to think in this case that animating the matte objects individually might produce a better environment for tweaking it. The camera shots are dependent on layer choreography anyways. Right?

I say animate the "donuts", not the video. Let's see how long it takes for that to sink in to your brains.

[PCC]

Lol, it's all over my head this. I think I can get what I want now so don't worry about it.

[PCC]

You're saying it's better like that cos it allows me to make changes to the individual layers afterwards? But if I use an AE composition as the source, I can just go to that and make the changes and it'll update the final composition as well?

[budwzr]

Just keep doing what you're doing, and report if you hit a snag or anomaly. I'm just hedging my position.

[poisondeathray]

But if I use an AE composition as the source, I can just go to that and make the changes and it'll update the final composition as well?

Yes, if you make changes in a precomposition , the final composition will reflect those changes

[PCC]

Ok, so I have this now: http://s2.postimg.org/om0rn3pix/AEcomp.png

One thing I've realised, is this will only allow for a 1:40 video. If I set it to the speed I want the zoom to be, eventually the video is just gonna end before the last few rings come into view.

Oh, but I think I've kind of worked it out. Once I set the zoom up, I'll be able to see the sections where you can't see X layer at all. Then I can push X layer along so that it starts just as it comes into view. And then I can do that for all of them.

[poisondeathray]

You have to precompose each layer (ctrl+shift+c) , in order to access the "continuously rasterize" switch (edges won't be as ratty or look like crap due to scaling) . It's not a vector layer, but it will still make some quality difference


I cheering for you, but I don't know if using scale for the animation will work out or cause more headaches - because perspective is non linear property. There is a "fall off"; objects closer to the viewer or camera are larger than objects farther away. You're going to have to manually animate the scale of each layer at different ratios and it will "break apart" leaving gaps if you don't get it correct . I'm not sure if nesting the composition and using the 2nd composition will work to control the zoom as 1 piece

[smrpix]

One thing I've realised, is this will only allow for a 1:40 video. If I set it to the speed I want the zoom to be, eventually the video is just gonna end before the last few rings come into view.

You can time remap or timestretch your layers individually.

[PCC]

Oh, break apart? I thought once it was precomposed, that's it stuck together, scaling won't make any permanent impression on the precomposition will it?

I selected all layers and did CTRL+SHIFT+C and then rasterized the entire pre-composition? Is that ok?

The only problem is there's gaps that I couldn't see in the precomp because it was such a small scale. Is there a way to get the precomp and the comp side by side so I can see how changing the scale for precomp effects how the gaps look in final comp?

[poisondeathray]

Oh, break apart? I thought once it was precomposed, that's it stuck together, scaling won't make any permanent impression on the precomposition will it?

I have it precomposed and rasterized - but I rasterized the entire pre-composition afterwards? Is that ok?

The only problem is there's gaps that I couldn't see in the precomp because it was such a small scale. Is there a way to get the precomp and the comp side by side so I can see how changing the scale for precomp effects how the gaps look in final comp?

Yes it will be 1 piece, but I don't know if controlling the zoom with the "main" comp will work the way you want it to

That's what I'm getting at about the gaps and being non seamless. It's going to be very dicey with with fine adjustments

You can open 2 viewers and lock one viewer to the precomp to see "both" simultaneously

[poisondeathray]

O

I selected all layers and did CTRL+SHIFT+C and then rasterized the entire pre-composition? Is that ok?

I'm guessing you probably want to leave each layer separately precomposed, because of the fine adjustments you will have to make

[PCC]

What will happen if I don't have them separate? Or are you saying it would be easier that way cos then I can look closer at the scaling than in the combined precomp?

[PCC]

Here's how it looks now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvXn0f1fre0

[poisondeathray]

Yes, you don't have to keep them separate in the precomp. When you nest that precomp into the main comp, it will become 1 layer anyway

I'm thinking to keep them easily accessible for adjustments in the precomp that your probably going to need with this method

Can you give us some hints on the background info for the shots ?

[PCC]

Ha, you tell me. Some vague idea about rural vs urban, man's impact on nature. I'm really struggling with the idea behind it, it's a university project.

[smrpix]

What will happen if I don't have them separate? Or are you saying it would be easier that way cos then I can look closer at the scaling than in the combined precomp?

It's kind of a back and forth process. You make all your clips long enough to see your moves.
Once your moves are more or less set you adjust the speed and timing of the clips.
Then go back and tweak the moves.
Then tweak the speed
Untill you are happy.

[PCC]

Hmm, I have all the rings joined up now. But trying the scaling... I set a keyframe for 500,000% at 00:00 and one for 0% at 3:00. It seems to go quite slowly until about 5 seconds from the end, then it speeds up, why would that be?

Is it easy to do the z-axis camera? And how do I do that in this context?

[poisondeathray]

Hmm, I have all the rings joined up now. But trying the scaling... I set a keyframe for 500,000% at 00:00 and one for 0% at 3:00. It seems to go quite slowly until about 5 seconds from the end, then it speeds up, why would that be?

It's like that because of the non linear nature mentioned earlier . Look at your scaling percentages for each layer. It's not stepwise like 100%, 200%, 300%, 400%... Each jump will be exponentially larger (or smaller if going the other way) . Imagine doing that for a 100 clip scene...

I think you would have to adjust the scaling rate of change using the curve editor , increasing the slope where you want it to go "faster" . You can't use simple linear keyframe interpolation for that setup .

In most animation scenarios, you generally want go slower into the animation and slower as it finishes (sort of easing in and out it's called, because it's a more natural motion, less choppy), but probably not as much as you have now

Is it easy to do the z-axis camera? And how do I do that in this context?

z-axis camera is fairly easy to do in AE, but I don't think it will quite do what you want . You have 2d layers arranged in 3d space, but how they line up in relation to the camera will be problematic

Earlier I said "mapping" to a cylinder or shape, but I meant in a real 3d program.