Use Auto GK or DGIndex to Demux to MP3 or WAV

[loninappleton]

Well I'm going to stick with this for a few practices. I may pick up BeSweet but I have enough program juggling for the time being. Since this is mostly spoken word I think I can get it audible and listenable. I'm going to work with the WAV file and see how things go.

[hello_hello]

If you want the subtitles as a separate file you'd need to use a different program to extract them from the vob files

No. You just go into the Advanced Settings of AutoGK and check 'Use external subtitles'.

The quoted AutoGK instructions were from me and I posted them from memory as I don't have it installed any more and I don't work with subtitles much myself, but yes, now you've refreshed my memory I'm sure that's correct. AutoGK does have a "use external subtitles" option.
Not that I think it's much of an issue in relation to the thread, but sorry if I caused confusion.

[hello_hello]

At the risk of confusing the issue and possibly adding some more mis-information (although hopefully not). The way I remember it:

AutoGK uses DGIndex to demux (extract) the audio from the vob files. Usually AC3.
If you select MP3 as the output audio type, it then uses a command-line utility to convert the AC3 audio to a wave file. I can't for the life of me remember what it's called but it'll be in the AutoGK installation (sub) folder. If the audio is multichannel it downmixes it to a stereo wave file using Dolby Prologic. If it's stereo AC3 it converts it to a stereo wave file. Either way, the stereo wave file is then normalised (peaks increased to 0db). As fas as I'm aware it doesn't apply any dynamic range compression.
Once the wave file is normalized, AutoGK then converts it to MP3.
Once the MP3 is encoded, the wave file (and possibly also the original AC3) is then deleted.

Wherever AutoGK is set to output the encoded video, it'll create a temp folder called "autogk_temp", (or something similar). Inside will be the extracted audio from the original vob files, the downmixed/normalised wave file and the encoded MP3. If you want to work with the wave file AutoGK creates manually, you'd need to copy it from the AutoGK temp folder to another location while AutoGK is converting it to MP3, as once the MP3 encoding has completed, it'll be deleted.

[loninappleton]

I apologize for using shorthand in ascribing the quotation from hello_hello as HH. I realized it only quite a bit afterward.

That last sentence above about having to 'capture' the WAV in AGK *while* it's doing an operation is quite subtle.

[loninappleton]

Just an update here with some listening tests. I used VLC to play back the original disk. It confirms that this lack of volume on speaking plus booming on musical interludes such as act breaks is real.

It might have been a simple problem of mixing a live performance. Working with the WAV file in Goldwave I have gotten some results. But up til now I have not used Audacity with the Chris's Compressor or other plugins to make this an all freeware project.

[hello_hello]

Personally I just keep the original audio stream most of the time, but if I convert it and/or downmix it to stereo I just encode it "as-is". Movie audio is generally pretty dynamic. Too dynamic most of the time if you ask me. The problem is though, once you compress the audio while converting it, there's no going back (unless you rip the disc again) as you can't uncompress it. Personally I prefer to leave the dynamic range untouched when encoding and compress it on playback instead. Depending on the sound system you're using it might have the ability to compress the audio. Even the media player in my TV can do it. It's got different sound modes such a "normal" and "night mode" etc. I use a PC for playback myself so I found a WinAmp compresser plugin I load in ffdshow which I use for decoding the audio. It works a treat. Much better than the usual method of slowly increasing the volume then decreasing it again etc.

loninappleton,
could you look in the AutoGK installation folder to see what the name of the utility AutoGK uses for decoding the audio might be? I can't remember and it's driving me nuts. I'm sure it starts with "A". Acid, or Avid or something like that. If you can't find it I might have to install AutoGK again myself so I can look and stop it from bugging me.

[hello_hello]

I remembered to remember this today, due to a discussion in another thread, so I thought I'd post the link here. I've never used it, so I have no idea how it compresses the audio if you use a BAT file which compresses, but maybe it'd be worth a try to see if it does a good job. If so, it might help you speed up/automate the process.
AVIGain

[loninappleton]

A long thread again and a lot of things to keep straight. This is why sorting through to make a guide would take time. Since I'm going through this a second time (first time the job concluded about a year ago and I remember the thread-- but there was a thing or two I did outside the box and so am starting over.)

I use VLC which has a full compressor function for viewing AVI video.

I use Foobar2000 for most audio streams such as the classical music I get from streaming radio stations. And a bit of Winamp for that for listening to news from independent radio streams.

And yes those Midnight Theatre or Night Radio features that are in hardware I've tried to use over the years-- so called compander boxes etc.

The goal for only certain projects that need this treatment is to make a 'personal listening edition' independent of the player used.

[loninappleton]

I remembered to remember this today, due to a discussion in another thread, so I thought I'd post the link here. I've never used it, so I have no idea how it compresses the audio if you use a BAT file which compresses, but maybe it'd be worth a try to see if it does a good job. If so, it might help you speed up/automate the process.
AVIGain

Could be. That would bring up the gain which is overall volume and ok for that. But what I've had to do and with reasonable success so far is to use two of the presets in Goldwave > Compressor Expander to 1.) Reduce the Loud Parts and 2.) Boost the Quiet Parts. Do one operation, save, then do the second. The presets were th start point. I experimented until I had enough of what was needed.

The shape of the majority of the original wave form from DGIndex WAV was close to 0Db as described would happen in DGIndex. But at specific points the sound (at act break and finale) "ballooned out" so that bringing the peaks down and quiets up produced an "aha" moment that I think is an improvement.

I'm not working in Audacity yet which is another goal.

With this new WAV in hand, a conversion to MP3 and Remux with the AVI in
Virtual Dub are the concluding steps if I remember right. I have the previous thread about replacing the old audio with the new. There are some screen shots which helped so I can find the place in that longish thread.

[loninappleton]

Do you mean add the new wav (or MP3) back to the existing AVI file ?
It's extremely simple, accomplished in Virtualdub with the minimum of fuss.

Open the avi. video/direct stream copy . Audio/audio from other file (point to the new audio file)

File/save as avi ( attribution to hello_hello)

This gets me started on the next part and concluding part of the operation.
It may seem repetitious but for other readers, can't drop the steps to the completed job.

[loninappleton]

Some progress.

Today I was able to:

Open Virtual Dub Mod 1.5.10.2b2542 version

then

Set the Direct Stream Copy processing (very important, it is not the
default)

Video > Set Direct Stream Copy

then

File > Open > MyFile .avi (from the Auto GK operation of preparing
from DVD)

then

Streams > Streams List

This opens a Window with your AVI in it

then in that Streams list window


ADD

a Windows file Window opens
Navigate to locate your new MP3

File SAVE

brings the new Audio into the Streams List and you
now have two entries

then

Highlight the original in the streams list and click the DISABLE button.
Your new MP3 remains on the list

then

OK is the button that exits the Streams List Window

then

File > Save (As your New File .AVI Name for the replaced MP3)
A process Window opens to show the action being done.


This should complete your new AVI


Admins. , please tell me if there are any errors in this

[loninappleton]

A lot of white space in the above and graphically it needs some refining and some questions remain.

1.) Virtual Dub Mod in this beta edition listed produces an error regarding headers, whether it be a VBR or a CBR and offers the option of retaining the old or rewriting the header. All this is scary for me as a user.

2.) There is Virtual Dub Mod 1.9 for 64 bit machines and it would not unzip on my older AMD
two core box. Is there a good upgrade path for use of VDbMod 1.9 or is it even necessary?

Goldwave is in its last 32 bit edition. Goldwave was used for tweaking the audio and remains a program of choice. Are many admins/users in the 64 bit market already?

3.) MP3 Gain remains difficult to use even with screen shots which are here:

http://www.afterdawn.com/guides/archive/normalize_mp3_audio_volume.cfm

but the most important step of saving a change eluded me. No need to pile on about it though.

The task of building a clear guide remains. I also want to repeat with Audacity as the WAV/MP3 editor. For that I have a black and white film as AVI that needs work.

Tonight I am going to view the new AVI content just as if I had never seen it and listen critically to the audio.

[loninappleton]

What does clipping sound like?

That and my -- I'd have to call it "tom-tom" - style drums in the piece are still pretty loud.
It's a military drum 16th Century period.

A restyled audio would be to raise the level and lower the loud parts. But tools like MP3 Gain or what Goldwave calls "Auto Gain" are not selective for these traits. In these listening tests I believe I'm sacrificing voice quality for these volume problems.

Alternatively, would selective EQ (taking out or extemely limiting a "tom-tom band" on the Equalization be a way to correct?

I'll query Goldwave as well.

Still collecting components for Audacity.

[manono]

3.) MP3 Gain remains difficult to use even with screen shots which are here

It's not difficult to use, even without screenshots. And I already explained how to use it:

I open the MP3 in MP3Gain, run the track analysis and then track gain to 92 (or whatever volume you like).

As I said, I use 92. You can do some test runs first, if you like, but I found the default 89 too low and at 92 I rarely get clipping.

...but the most important step of saving a change eluded me.

You save nothing. Running the track gain changes the MP3 on-the-fly to whatever volume you set.

What does clipping sound like?

It sounds like distortion. However, if it barely clips you may not notice, and only (usually) some small sections will clip. It's definitely better if you don't have any clipping left after using MP3Gain.

1.) Virtual Dub Mod in this beta edition listed produces an error regarding headers, whether it be a VBR or a CBR and offers the option of retaining the old or rewriting the header. All this is scary for me as a user.

Always answer 'No' to the question. Allowing it to rewrite the headers is a recipe for out-of-synch audio.

[loninappleton]

That clarifies the part about saving in MP3 Gain. Best to use a scratch copy or else...

Also on answering "No" to the question on VBR/CBR I'll remember when using it next.
The warning does mention the timing being off by a number of ms. which is pretty large.

With Virtual Dub the scary part is deleting what you first put in there like you'll never see it again. I went through my previous threads and pieced it all together and rewrote it. Plus I've broken down the guide elements into topics by software.

[loninappleton]

Some progress in my search of the right program to get my audio "uniform."
This is called The Levelator:


http://www.google.com/search?q=wiki+levelator

and it's Free and available from CNET which was the only reliable download source.

I want to do a full audition of an AVI and report back.

I do not know if it is currently in the videohelp downloads section.

What I do know is it is very easy to use: no settings, just drag and drop and the program does all of it's functions.

[loninappleton]

Still putting The Levelator through it's paces. Now that I can put a new audio file with the AVI reliably and wrote out a detailed instruction (see above) making these changes is easier.

The Levelator was made and released as Freeware but no longer in development. It was made specifically for podcasts to balance different voice microphones for level matching. This has worked well with my project. Loud drumming and trumpet fanfares at scene changes are suppressed. I did not have to do any volume changing once a good level was found, overall level was raised.

More importantly there is no distortion in human speech which I started to hear with trying to raise the 'floor' and lower loud parts in Goldwave.

I have another test AVI in mind which is an anime with lots of firepower and explosions. Will see what The Levelator does with that one for late night viewing.

Here is a bit on The Levelator:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levelator

A question I have is: since The Levelator does Compression, Normalization and Limiting
how would those functions be broken down into discrete operations for use with Audacity or Goldwave?

[loninappleton]

Earlier I mentioned practicin with an anime which I retrieved. I had completed my guide steps for the DVD Shrink preparation of the disc.

But I wanted to get the Japanese audio and the English subtitles. I thought I ticked all the right boxes but... I got the Japanese audio but no subs (after making the AVI in Auto Gordian Knot-- which is my practice for guide-writing.)

Doom9 made a setup guide for DVD Shrink. And I remember something was said about subs during one of my threads but I can't find it for looking.

http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/mpg/dvdshrink31-firsttime.htm


I have not seen a way to search on a keyword within a topic. All it does is go out to google.

True, I could retrieve an srt file which I've done many times but that is a different process than getting the original.

[loninappleton]

Today I continue to be stumped on how to get the English subtitles.

http://www.dvdshrink.info/forcing_subs.php

Had some confusion with the actual movie or "commentary track" and so I have tried both.
DVD Shrink does not show the added subs in its Preview as it is running. I don't know if that's because the program is processing.

Going to AutoGK for the AVI making process. AGK says subtitles are being processed.
The Subtitle pane has four entries each saying the same thing: English wide. In these efforts I have always selected the number one at top.

But they are not showing up. I have learned to use the Video Preview in AGK to cut down on some of the time making these faulty recodes.

And today I am getting only the Commentary version after trying both track 4 and track 5-- the movie length files on the disk. The problem here is aggravated by all these variables and the multiple subtitle tracks all saying the same thing, not the process. The Commentary version which now I cannot tell from track 4 or 5 keeps coming back.

I have one more thing to try and then I am going to go on with my first recode which
has the correct Japanese audio in the movie track but no subs.

Last thing I have tried is switch back to Track 4 accept the default Japanese 6 channel rather than re-select Japanese 2 channel stereo and *uncheck* display only forced subtitles.

Still no subs but the Janaese language is retained

What can be going wrong? I am out of ideas

[manono]

Sometimes when you're having trouble finding subs it can be helpful to check the subtitle menu to see what's available. They're usually listed in the same order as stored on the DVD. Another thing you can do is to extract the SUP files using PGCDemux and then open them in Subtitle Creator to see what they are. When you find the one you want, save it as VobSubs (IDX/SUP) and use them in AutoGK with the CTRL/F8 trick.

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/256625-How-to-add-permanent-subtitles-with-AutoGK-a...I-DivX-or-XviD

In case you don't know about that.

[loninappleton]

First things first. Yes these would be from the DVD not an opensubtitle.com .srt or the like.
The subtitle menu is on the DVD or the AGK? What I don't get is that there are four entries showing in AGK in the subtitle pane all marked exactly the same and with no detail on any of them and that checking the first one has never gotten any.

Does DVDShrink video preview ever show the subs that you assumedly want?
Does the Preview in AGK ever show the subs you assumedly want?
If AGK shows processing subs in its log, why would they not show up in the preview? This is what I've experienced.

Please answer this and I will see if I can practice with Cntl/F8


I will see if I can find something on the DVDShrink output that looks like a sub menu for AGK to load with Cntl/F8 if we are still talking about the same thing.

[manono]

Yes these would be from the DVD not an opensubtitle.com .srt or the like.

Right. I was talking about the same - extracting the right ones yourself and then using them in the encode, rather than having AutoGK get them for you.

The subtitle menu is on the DVD or the AGK?

I meant to play the DVD and check the subtitle menu for what subs are on the DVD. You can even play the movie in PowerDVD or some such, or in your standalone DVD player, and check what subtitle tracks there are.

What I don't get is that there are four entries showing in AGK in the subtitle pane all marked exactly the same

There's no requirement that they be accurate marked, or differently marked to show you more easily what they are. I've seen cases where they're shown wrong - one subtitle track is marked as a completely different language. They're also marked with numbers which is really how they're distinguished.

Does DVDShrink video preview ever show the subs that you assumedly want?

I don't use it for anything so someone else will have to answer.

Does the Preview in AGK ever show the subs you assumedly want?

It's supposed to show the subs you've chosen, yes. Whether they're the ones you want is a different story. Me, if I have any trouble with the subs, I'll extract them myself and have a look, rather than wait for the Preview to load, especially when there are a bunch of different subs on the DVD.

If AGK shows processing subs in its log, why would they not show up in the preview?

Maybe they're forced subs or subs for signs and the like, so there are very few subs to begin with. Other than that I don't know.

[loninappleton]

Here I'll write down what I did before my notes become illegible:

In AGK I navigated to the AGK tmp folder
I tried to Cntl+F8 and
External Subtitles field opens but empty
Then I clicked on the External subtitle folder icon left of screen
This took me to a single entry called MyprojectJapaneseplusEngsub.sub

The .sub file extension was the first time I saw it.

I proceded once again to go through the process to Preview the project.
Then Media Player Classic opens-- it is the default player for this-- and issues an error which says it has encountered an error at line 22 of the program and quits.

so much for Preview in AGK. Since I have the sub file I'm going to attempt to start the project direct.

[manono]

This took me to a single entry called MyprojectJapaneseplusEngsub.sub

That's part of a VobSub, right? It also has an IDX file associated with it? If so, you tried to open a text-based SUB file, and you don't have one. So, no subs. Use the drop-down box/triangle to choose an IDX file instead and then try the Preview again.

[loninappleton]

Thanks for the image but I don't know what sort of drop down/ triangle box there might be...
will go look for that much....

Didn't see it.

I got some long complicated errors-- too long to try and copy out.

there was A Virtual Dub Error box which says
AVI Synth open failure TextSub can't open C: blah blah like 23

The log of AGK says the system cannot find the file specified.

>>> I went to videohelp download page and simply reinstalled as much as I could of AGK.

Two errors occurred due to missing program elements and I don't know where they can be found.

Here is the error:

VobSub 2.23 Setup

Error opening file for writing c:Windows\system32\vobsub.dll
ditto \vobsub.ax

I pressed ignore and loaded the program without the missing elements.

These errors had not occured until I started trying to do this subtitle file so I'm going to see if the
prog. at least does what it has in the past.

This is turning into a real tar baby to handle. Others must have encountered the same errors and yet the prog is still being used years later. Gordian Knot (whatever it is) continues in development to version 1.9 or something.

[manono]

Remember that guide to which I pointed you to earlier?

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/256625-How-to-add-permanent-subtitles-with-AutoGK-a...I-DivX-or-XviD

Baldrick wrote:

Select the Input File
Press CTRL-F8 on your keyboard to bring up the subtitle load
Select the External subs

When selecting the external subs (the VobSubs you want to add), first you'll be prompted to choose text-based subs (TXT, SUB, SUB, or SSA). Just to the right of that is a little downward pointing arrow or triangle which when hit shows you another line, as in my picture above, one that allows you to choose the IDX.

[loninappleton]

That bit about the triangle rather than arrow threw me.
Right now I have completed the process which The Levelator does on the AVI File. I want to get through that much of the guide and clarify if I can.

Frankly I had so many bad copies of things like commentary versions by the time I got to the
.idx found late in the day I may have built that on one of the ones deleted as no good for my purpose. I will give another try tomorrow using what I am calling the final version with Levelator-- and work from a working copy to be sure. Then if there are no subtitles with the .idx I am exhausted with the frustration of it. But that's why I want the thread left open for these things that come up.

I suppose I don't understand the difference between external subs-- those which I consider to be from third parties like srts available at subtitle outlets -- and subtitles purportedly woven into the the original dvd where the .idx is of that sort.

[loninappleton]

Also...

At this point I don't know if it matters but up there at #55 where it says 'like 23' should be _line 23_
describing where the program halted. I meant that to be useful but no comment here on the missing dll and missing vobsub.ax or how to repair it.

[loninappleton]

Today I fired up the stand alone DVD player and set up for Japanese with Eng subs. It took me two tries to do even that (word.)

But while checking the dvd sound levels I did see both a .sub and an .ids in agk_tmp IIRC.
On screen setup says Japanese audio w. Eng Subtitles both as 5:1 and a separate entry for DTS Stereo.

Question: If I tried a workaround on this by using DVDFab to get the setup into AVI, would my repaired audio still work as replacement using Virtual Dub and retain the subs (assuming I got them that way?

[manono]

You shouldn't do anything with DVDFab except use it for decrypting to the hard drive.

But yes, any XviD AVI with MP3/AC3 audio can have the audio replaced using VDub.

Retain the subs? If they're already hardcoded into the video, then of course they'll be kept. Or have I misunderstood?