Problem converting MOV to WebM

[cottage]

I'm converting MOV videos to WebM for use on a web page. In most, but not all, videos the resulting WebM file looks like is has the occasional "skip" in the video. i.e. each "skip" looks like the converted file is missing a few frames. I've converted the same video to MP4 and the output is excellent.

I've tried the following programs:
Xmedia Recode
Leawo Video Converter

I've tried different bitrates and the quality improves with higher bitrates but the skips are still there.

My original file is:
MOV container
23 Mbps, 1280x720, 29.97 fps, AVC(Baseline@4.1)(1 RefFrame)

One of my output files is:
WebM container
1833Kbps, 800x448, 29.97fps, VP8 Codec

Any idea what might be causing this skipping?

[poisondeathray]

Did you test the file playback locally through a media player like vlc, smplayer etc..? ie. Is there a real problem? or is it a browser playback problem (some browsers/plugins combinations have problems playing webm smoothly or at all)

[cottage]

I'm embarrassed to admit that I neglected to look for an alternate WebM player. Since my target audience for the WebM video was Firefox, I assumed that this was an acceptable player. WRONG WRONG WRONG!

I updated to VLC 2.0.4 and the WebM video played perfectly.

However, this situation is curious. I'm updating my web site videos to play using HTML5 since support for Flash seems to be disappearing. I understand that Firefox will play WebM and OGV but not MP4. It is curious that the latest Firefox has been updated to support WebM video and HTML5 but it seems not to do it well. Very odd!

However, thank-you so much poisondeathray. You provided a fast straightforward answer. You are a star!

[poisondeathray]

However, this situation is curious. I'm updating my web site videos to play using HTML5 since support for Flash seems to be disappearing.

Where did you get that idea? Despite it's problems and Google/Youtube's efforts to elminate flash - I don't see flash penetration in the market changing much at all

It is curious that the latest Firefox has been updated to support WebM video and HTML5 but it seems not to do it well. Very odd!

"latest" firefox (even stable release branch) isn't always a good thing. They seem to be "rushing" out releases these days without proper testing

[_Al_]

-if you choose html 5 and video tag http://www.w3schools.com/html/html5_video.asp , you have to include webM and mp4 on your website to have that cross platform compatibility

-if you choose latest jwplayer (maybe new flowplayer but I'm not sure) you upload just mp4 and jwplayer recognizes what gadget or web browser plays your video and uses flash or html5, it is cross platform solution

[cottage]

Where did you get that idea? Despite it's problems and Google/Youtube's efforts to elminate flash - I don't see flash penetration in the market changing much at all

The following is my understanding:
I don't have an iPod so I can't be definite but it is my understanding that it doesn't support Flash. Chrome for Android does not support Flash. Any new purchaser of an Android tablet will not be able to download Flash. Existing Android tablet owners can download Flash updates but Flash will not be supported beyond Android 4.0. To me, all this says that an increasing number of users will not be able to view Flash content.

It is curious that the latest Firefox has been updated to support WebM video and HTML5 but it seems not to do it well. Very odd!
"latest" Firefox (even stable release branch) isn't always a good thing. They seem to be "rushing" out releases these days without proper testing

I hear you and agree. Updated programs have caused me more grief and wasted time than any other computer issue.

[cottage]

-if you choose html 5 and video tag http://www.w3schools.com/html/html5_video.asp , you have to include webM and mp4 on your website to have that cross platform compatibility

-if you choose latest jwplayer (maybe new flowplayer but I'm not sure) you upload just mp4 and jwplayer recognizes what gadget or web browser plays your video and uses flash or html5, it is cross platform solution

I am currently using Flowplayer for the Flash videos and it worked well for Flash only.

I tried both JW Player and the latest version of Flowplayer and neither worked to my satisfaction. I use the <center> tag in my code. JW player has a bug that causes the video to be placed well to the right of the intended video box when the <center> tag is used. I e-mailed Long Tail Video to report the problem. They indicated that it is a known bug and will be fixed in the next release (maybe early 2013).

For whatever reason, I couldn't get the latest version of Flowlplayer working so I gave up and worked on HTML5.

[_Al_]

I just tested <center> .....jwplayer input ...</center> and it worked in firefox, Opera, Microsoft explorer and Google Chrome

<html>

<head>
<title>solo.player</title>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<script type="text/javascript" src="http://www.your.web.site/jwplayer/jwplayer.js"></script>
</head>

<body>
<center>
<div id="container">Loading the player ...</div>
<script type="text/javascript">
jwplayer("container").setup({
flashplayer: "http://www.your.web.site.com/jwplayer/player.swf",
file: "http://www.your.web.site.com/video.mp4",
height: 360,
width: 640,
image: "http://www.your.web.site.com/video.jpg"
});
</script>
</center>
</body>

</html>

[poisondeathray]

The following is my understanding:
I don't have an iPod so I can't be definite but it is my understanding that it doesn't support Flash. Chrome for Android does not support Flash. Any new purchaser of an Android tablet will not be able to download Flash. Existing Android tablet owners can download Flash updates but Flash will not be supported beyond Android 4.0. To me, all this says that an increasing number of users will not be able to view Flash content.

Yes, you're right

I just hate webm - it's just so inferior quality wise right now, hopefully they can improve it. But I guess seeing something is better than seeing nothing . We're supposed to be making forward progress not back a few steps

[cottage]

I just tested <center> .....jwplayer input ...</center> and it worked in firefox, Opera, Microsoft explorer and Google Chrome

<html>

<head>
<title>solo.player</title>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<script type="text/javascript" src="http://www.your.web.site/jwplayer/jwplayer.js"></script>
</head>

<body>
<center>
<div id="container">Loading the player ...</div>
<script type="text/javascript">
jwplayer("container").setup({
flashplayer: "http://www.your.web.site.com/jwplayer/player.swf",
file: "http://www.your.web.site.com/video.mp4",
height: 360,
width: 640,
image: "http://www.your.web.site.com/video.jpg"
});
</script>
</center>
</body>

</html>

Hi _Al_

I just tested your code on my site and the video is still placed to the right.

I'll risk banishment an give you a quasi link to show you what I mean:
garynancy dot com/temp/flowtest.htm
You'll know how to make this a working link. (I don't think that the forum rules allow me to post an outside working link.)

In Chrome, my video is placed to the right of the intended location.
In Firefox, I get only a black box. In my previous tests, it was necessary to use HTML5 code and add the WebM format. Because of this I didn't see any advantage in using JW Player over HTML5 defaulting to a standard Flash video.

[_Al_]

I loaded blank page
-did you upload all jwplayer files into your jwplayer folder ?
-you need to replace all www.your.web.site.com in the script with your correct path (for player.swf)
-give correct path to mp4 file and image too, I could not find image under that name there , better give it the whole path or use "/" in front of that name if it is in the same folder like html page

[cottage]

I loaded blank page
-did you upload all jwplayer files into your jwplayer folder ?
-you need to replace all www.your.web.site.com in the script with your correct path (for player.swf)
-give correct path to mp4 file and image too, I could not find image under that name there , better give it the whole path or use "/" in front of that name if it is in the same folder like html page

I have the files:
jwplayer.flash.swf
jwplayer.html5.js
jwplayer.js
uploaded to the "jwplayer" file folder.

I did prepare and upload the htm file a little too quickly and made a couple of mistakes. They have now been corrected but I still get the same results.

At the risk of diverging from the original point of this thread.....
You mention "better give it the whole path or use "/" in front of that name if it is in the same folder like html page".
I never call an external file using "http://www.website.....etc" because it invokes another DNS request and potential delays. I'm a little paranoid about fast loading web pages because I spent so many years without the availability of DSL. If you want to see what I mean, just look at the current NFL web site. It is an abortion of external calls!

[_Al_]

they change the code a bit with this new version 6, sorry, change your code, you perhaps already tried that, but that NEW version 6 maybe introduced that center tag bug, I have version 5 and the code was version 5, so with version 6 it goes like this, you perhaps already tried that in the first place , but anyway:


<html>

<head>
<title>solo player</title>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<script type="text/javascript" src="http://www.garynancy.com/jwplayer/jwplayer.js"></script>
</head>

<body>
<center>
<div id="myElement">Loading the player...</div>

<script type="text/javascript">
jwplayer("myElement").setup({
file: "http://www.garynancy.com/temp/012.mp4",
image: "http://www.garynancy.com/temp/031.jpg",
});
</script>
</center>
</body>

</html>



if <center> tag doesn't work you can work around it using table or you use older version 5 for jwplayer, they might be some other workaround ...

[cottage]

_Al_

Yes. I was using JW Player Version 6 and Long Tail confirmed that the <center> problem was a bug in version 6.

In any case, using the code as shown in your last post, the video still won't display in Firefox. I found it necessary to use HTML5 and a WebM video to get it to work. Given this issue, I may as well use just HTML5 with a backup of standard Flash. I don't see the advantage of either Flowplayer or JW Player other than to have a customizable player.

[_Al_]

Whatever works for you, but if there is lots of videos it gets more difficult to always encode webM and mp4 as well. Jwplayer has plugins available like playlists with pictures,info text etc., if you have couple of videos it is not needed , sure.

[cottage]

This project has been a real learning experience and I'm not finished yet!

As noted in previous posts, I was having trouble with both JW Player and Flowplayer. As a result, I defaulted to HTML5 and recoding my videos to MP4, WebM, OGV and SWF. However upon further examination, I find that other than the <center> issue in JW Player V6, I now find that both of them work very well with only an MP4 file.

Instead my real problem is recoding from MOV to MP4!

I've used a few programs and I always get an MP4 copy that plays perfectly in VLC Player but not all of them play in all browsers. I still haven't figured out the specific problem but I do have MP4 videos that now work.

My purpose in making this post is to ensure that this thread doesn't mislead anyone into thinking that JW Player and Flowplayer don't work. In order not to take this thread off track any more than it already is, I'll post a new thread explaining the issue and asking for help.

[cottage]

I did start a new thread for this question but was advised by Baldrick to append the question to this thread. Sorry about that.

I used to use Flash videos on my web site but am now in the process of changing them to improve cross browser compatibility.

I'm in the process of converting a number of MOV videos to MP4 for the purpose of posting them on the web site. It's been a frustrating experience and I've been going around in circles as noted in my other post:
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/3...29#post2204429

My problem is finding the proper method of converting the MOV files to MP4.

I've used a number of programs including:
Xmedia Recode
Leawo Video Converter
Handbrake
WinX HD Video Converter Deluxe

All converted MP4 files play perfectly on VLC player but not all of them will play in all browsers when posted to the web (either in HTML5 or using JW PLayer or Flowplayer). I'm stumped because I can't find a common element that consistently causes the failure.

Usually the video fails to load in some browsers but is OK in others

The program MediaInfo reports the following info for some of the different converted files:
Writing App: DigiArty AV Encoder Core - AVC
Writing App: DigiArty AV Encoder Core - MPEG-4 Visual (Simple@L1)
Writing App: Handbrake - AVC (Baseline@L3.1)(2 Ref Frames)
Writing App: Handbrake - AVC (Baseline@L2.1)(2 Ref Frames)
Writing App: Lavf54.36.100 - AVC(High 4:2:2@L3.1)(2 Ref Frames)
Writing App: vlc 1.0.0 stream output - AVC(Main@L5.1)(CABAC/1 Ref Frame)
Most of them are 800x448 at 29.970fps
I have also varied the frame rates

I won't pretend to understand all of the above and there are many other options that can be set in some of the conversion programs like Xmedia Recode and Handbrake.

Can anyone point me to a reference that specifies the correct MP4 options for web posting?

In Baldrick's post he said "I just use flash with mp4 and not any html5 because it just doesn't work as I want yet.....or uploads to youtube."

I'm doing as he suggests but am having trouble determining why some MP4s work and others don't.

[Baldrick]

No audio?

[cottage]

No audio?

I didn't quote the audio because I assumed that it wasn't the problem.

In some videos, the audio has been removed. In others, it is:
English, 127 Kbps, 48.0 KHz, 2 channels, AAC (LC)

I haven't noticed that the problem was related to audio or no audio.

[_Al_]

I use Ripbot264 or Megui, you can choose some Main@L 3.1 , needed for your video resolution, some Iphone4 profile for example, that will set this, and no problem with jwplayer. Audio the same too, AAC LC .

It looks like some other problem, mostly likely with setting up your web page. You cannot test your mp4 on your computer, flash has some safety limitations ( you can unblock that I think) - you cannot test your web page on your computer (unless you install some bunch of other software) for php etc. For video on web page to find out if it works correctly, you just have to upload it first and your server and test it. I hope you test it like that.

[cottage]

I'm reluctant to claim success because every time it seems that my problem is solved, something else crops up. However, here goes....

I'm now having success recoding my MOV videos in Handbrake using the Android-mid setting and adjusting the video size. This results in a video stream of "Writing App: Handbrake - AVC (Baseline@L3.1)(2 Ref Frames)".

I had problems with other versions of MP4 files but the one that seemed to fail most consistently was recoded in Xmedia Recode which used the Writing application "Lavf54.36.100". This version of MP4 file frequently (but not always) failed in Chrome but worked in other browsers.

I don't understand the reason so if anyone can shed light on the issue, I'd be very interested.

Thank-you to everyone who posted suggestions.

[poisondeathray]

mediainfo view=>text will provide more information

it might be the container format profile mp42 vs isom or muxer used , might be the encoding settings

[cottage]

mediainfo view=>text will provide more information

it might be the container format profile mp42 vs isom or muxer used , might be the encoding settings

Here is the text output from one of the files....

General
Complete name : C:\Documents and Settings\Gary\My Documents\Web Sites\Gary.Nancy\Current\palau\101Lavf.mp4
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : Base Media
Codec ID : isom
File size : 3.46 MiB
Duration : 18s 41ms
Overall bit rate : 1 610 Kbps
Writing application : Lavf54.36.100

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : Baseline@L3.1
Format settings, CABAC : No
Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 18s 18ms
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 1 500 Kbps
Width : 800 pixels
Height : 448 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Original display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.140
Stream size : 3.17 MiB (92%)
Writing library : x264 core 129 r2230
Encoding settings : cabac=0 / ref=2 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x1:0 / me=hex / subme=4 / psy=1 / psy_rd=2.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=0 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=0 / 8x8dct=0 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=0 / threads=3 / lookahead_threads=1 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=0 / weightp=0 / keyint=290 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=40 / rc=abr / mbtree=0 / bitrate=1500 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.50 / qpmin=10 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / vbv_maxrate=14000 / vbv_bufsize=14000 / nal_hrd=none / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:2.00
Language : English

Audio
ID : 2
Format : AAC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile : LC
Codec ID : 40
Duration : 18s 41ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 128 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 282 KiB (8%)
Language : English

Does this indicate any problems?

[poisondeathray]

There should be nothing wrong with the encoding settings used (in terms of compatibility)

I don' t know for sure, but I've seen compatibility issues with that muxing profile for some devices

Format profile : Base Media
Codec ID : isom

Do the ones that work say Codec ID: mp42 ?

[cottage]

There should be nothing wrong with the encoding settings used (in terms of compatibility)

I don' t know for sure, but I've seen compatibility issues with that muxing profile for some devices

Format profile : Base Media
Codec ID : isom

Do the ones that work say Codec ID: mp42 ?

Yes it does.

Here's an excerpt:

Format profile : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID : mp42

[poisondeathray]

I'm not sure if that's the precise reason for your observations, but they add support to the hypothesis I have , put together from dozens of different experiences over the years, where I noticed sometimes a video didn't play or had problems (not necessarily all flash based, some applications, some devices).

Basically, there are slightly different mp4 muxers and slightly different MP4 specs . Some may cause compatibility issues

The "Codec ID" actually refers to the ftyp code. Here is an excerpt of commonly used ones:

"isom" MP4 Base Media v1 [IS0 14496-12:2003]
"mp41" MP4 v1 [ISO 14496-1:ch13]
"mp42" MP4 v2 [ISO 14496-14]
"qt" Apple QuickTime (.MOV/QT)

If you want a bigger listing
http://www.ftyps.com/

"mp42" is part of mpeg-4 part 14 . It's the most compatible for the most part I've noticed across the board, but some apple devices may prefer "qt" . It adds some extensions over "isom", which I'm guessing is the reason for the compatibility issues
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPEG-4_Part_14

For example ffmpeg uses "isom" , but ffmbc uses "mp42" when muxing mp4 by default . I've noticed that the mp4's created by ffmbc seem more compatible, despite using same encoding settings. If you look up the ISO documentation, you can see the exact details.

[_Al_]

cattage - Can you tell what devices or browsers give you trouble with those mp4 that have Codec ID as isom ?

[_Al_]

I read manuals on web.
Jwplayer , I am talking about jwplayer version 6 only now, has a feature that automatically renders HTML5 for any device or any browser now.

Unless there is a line :

primary: "flash",

within jwplayer script in the web page. With this line jwplayer renders flash first whenever possible (browsers etc.).

I have mp4 encoded with Megui (Codec ID - isom) and if jwplayer renders HTML5 it doesn't work. Flash works. So with that line - primary: "flash", - it works on browsers with flash installed or devices that use flash, but as soon as jwplayer renders HTML5 (default without that line) or you have Android tablet or for example or iOS device perhaps too (both support HTML5 only) it doesn't work.

I will come definitevly back to this. I have to solve it also. I try to render mp4 elsewhere and test it.

UPDATE: I take that back simple files work allright, checked with Android that uses HTML5 but problems seems to be with rss feed, playlist, somehow it doesn't work with that HTML5, have to look into it.

[cottage]

cattage - Can you tell what devices or browsers give you trouble with those mp4 that have Codec ID as isom ?

That MP4 failed in Chrome but worked in Firefox. I didn't really test further than that. If it failed in any browser, I wanted to fix that issue before I did further regression testing.

The JW web site has a page that helps with trouble shooting. They list a number of potential error messages which a problem web page should display. All of them have an exclamation point enclosed in a triangle with text explaining the error.

Interestingly, my problem page only displayed the exclamation point enclosed in a triangle but no text!

[_Al_]

Use that line : primary: "flash" within your script, jwplayer then renders flash whenever possible instead of default html5.

<html>
<head>
<title>your title</title>
<script type="text/javascript" src="http://www.your.site.com/jwplayer/jwplayer.js"></script>
</head>
<body>
<h2>headline</h2>
<div id="container"></div>
<script type="text/javascript">
    jwplayer("container").setup({
        file: "www.your.site.com/video.mp4",
        primary: "flash",
        height: 360,
        width: 480
        
  });
  
</script>
</body>
</html>

But my Megui encoded mp4 with isom as a Codec ID works anywhere, any browser, device. HTML5 render gives me trouble with android device, some custom scripts and rss playlists (even it worked with 5.x version) , it might be some bug (new release) or just simply I have to change it because I do not understand that jwplayer5 to jwplayer6 migration or some fluke where before it worked and not now ...