Vcr plays good for a bit then picture gets noisy and loses the signal

[imma]

Hello, this is my first post in this forum.

Recently I've been digitalizing old video tapes and I've had no problem.
But now yesterday I tried with the older vhs I've got, from 1990. And I had a strange problem.
You can see in this short clip what it is like:
http://www.mediafire.com/?hhodahn0kzk54ry (9MB)

First it looks perfect, but then there's a lot of noise suddenly to the point that the signal is lost (the audio still works fine everytime). And then it looks fine again and this repeats every 10~40 seconds.

I can tell you the tape isn't damaged for 2 reasons:
1) I have a copy of that tape and I have exactly the same issue.
2) I have an older VCR too, and it plays all the tape perfectly, the only problem is that it displays some horizontal black lines the whole time, probably because the VCR is dirty or too old.

I've tried adjusting the tracking (with the old VCR, because the newest one it's automatic) and I could'nt get better results.
I hope I didn't miss any detail. Sorry for my bad english.
Thank you!

[jman98]

Frankly speaking it's insincere for you to apologize for your "bad english" when you know good and well that you write at a level almost completely fluent. Others here won't care, but I'm not impressed when people say that they can speak English "a little" or "badly" and they're actually at a fluent level. It's impossible for you to write at this level without knowing your English is excellent. It's better than a lot of native speakers we have here. My rule in life is - no modesty is better than false modesty.

The video shows the tape getting a lot of noise with the picture turning snowy like an old analog over the air signal and the signal being lost. I'm not a VCR expert, but as nobody else has bothered to respond, I'd suggest cleaning the heads of the newer VCR and see if that helps. Here's one guide
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/How-to-Manually-Clean-Your-VCR-Heads/165
Perhaps others here know of better guides and can suggest them.

[davexnet]

Also a possibility, some tape slack.

Wind it to the very end, then back to the beginning.

[Cornucopia]

Maybe pinch roller slippage problems (which could only be fixed with a vcr repair).

Scott

[jmac698]

I guess it's a loss of signal or tracking, all I know to try is different VCR's. I saw this effect myself on a tape with bad tracking, and on one VCR is became totally snowy.
I found just one (other) VCR that could play it ok, and I adjusted manual tracking for each scene as I captured.
I have a technique to fix up the noise, if there's any picture at all, or if you can get the noise to move to different spots.

[imma]

Frankly speaking it's insincere for you to apologize for your "bad english" when you know good and well that you write at a level almost completely fluent. Others here won't care, but I'm not impressed when people say that they can speak English "a little" or "badly" and they're actually at a fluent level. It's impossible for you to write at this level without knowing your English is excellent. It's better than a lot of native speakers we have here. My rule in life is - no modesty is better than false modesty.

Well thanks, I take that as a compliment. I never meant to be modest, I just wrote that to let you know that english is not my first language so if I did any mistake developing my ideas that would be the reason. I don't see what's the big deal, anyways.

I'd suggest cleaning the heads of the newer VCR and see if that helps.

But I've digitalized 20 VHS with that VCR and I had no problems, I thought that if the heads were dirty that would affect every tape. Am I wrong? Thank you.

Also a possibility, some tape slack.
Wind it to the very end, then back to the beginning.

I did that like 4 times and it didn't work Thanks anyway!

Maybe pinch roller slippage problems (which could only be fixed with a vcr repair).

Could that affect only one VHS? Because this VCR digitalized the other tapes perfectly.

I guess it's a loss of signal or tracking, all I know to try is different VCR's.

As I stated on the first post, I've tried with an older VCR too, and it works fine, but it shows horizontal black lines the whole time and some noise. I've tried cleaning the heads of the older VCR and adjusting the tracking and nothing changed. Now that I rememered, when I played the tape in this old VCR when it was connected to the TV it worked fine, and now that I connected it to the device that is plugged in the computer, I have these black lines and noise... isn't it strange?

Thank you all!

[jmac698]

There's a script by yup to fix black lines. I've been able to reproduce them by recording in svhs-et and playing on a non-quasi s-vhs vcr.
In other words, I think the frequency range was too much to be demodulated. Dunno why this would happen.

[Cornucopia]

If only that tape is affected (no problems before or after), I would guess that the "tracking" problem was a problem WHEN it was recorded, so now that bad tracking is "burned onto the tape". That means that only by either using THAT original VCR that recorded it might work, or you will have to MANUALLY RIDE the tracking (if your VCR has that feature, if it doesn't you'll need one that does) to keep it aligned optimally throughout the length of the program.

Scott

[johns0]

imma-in the future please use a more descriptive subject title in your posts to allow others to search for similar topics. I will change yours this time.

[imma]

imma-in the future please use a more descriptive subject title in your posts to allow others to search for similar topics. I will change yours this time.

Sorry, and thank you.

[imma]

I'd suggest cleaning the heads of the newer VCR and see if that helps. Here's one guide
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/How-to-Manually-Clean-Your-VCR-Heads/165
Perhaps others here know of better guides and can suggest them.

I've just tried this and nothing changed

Maybe pinch roller slippage problems (which could only be fixed with a vcr repair).

When I removed the VCR's cover and played the tape nothing seemed unusual, even when the signal was lost.

I'm almost sure it has something to do with the tracking, but I don't know what it is. It's strange that I could play every VHS perfectly and this one (and the copy) is giving me problems.

[DB83]

For some reason I can not download the clip.

But I figure that if the same problem is on the copy the it is one of those incurable problems.

Is it by any chance recorded at EP or ELP ? - known to give inconsistent playback/tracking issues on anything other than the machine it was originally recorded on.

[imma]

For some reason I can not download the clip.

But I figure that if the same problem is on the copy the it is one of those incurable problems.

Is it by any chance recorded at EP or ELP ? - known to give inconsistent playback/tracking issues on anything other than the machine it was originally recorded on.

I don't think it's incurable because it works fine with the older VCR, which instead of showing noise and signal loss, shows black lines (looks like a tracking problem). The strange is that the black lines appear if I connect the VCR to the computer, but if I connect it to the TV it looks 100% fine.

I don't know if it's recorded at EP or ELP. All I know is that it was filmed with a different videocamera than the other VHS I've already digitalized. What would be the solution to that?

Thank you.

PS: I'll attach the clip to this post.

[DB83]

Played clip now. Thank you for the fresh link.

I have never seen a tracking problem that results in a loss of signal. The copy you made, was that from the tape that has the issues or direct from the original source ? I suspect the latter which means it is the link between the camera and the recording machine that has created the poor signal. It could even be down to the quality of the tapes you have used.

Why would it play reasonably well in another player ? (I say reasonably since, by your own words there are issues - you do not AFAIK get black lines with tracking). I can only guess at this. The older player may be less sensitive to low signals - better heads etc.

If that player can play the tape albeit with the black lines then I suggest you transfer with that. Post an example of that and it may well be possible to clean that up with filters.

[imma]

Played clip now. Thank you for the fresh link.

I have never seen a tracking problem that results in a loss of signal. The copy you made, was that from the tape that has the issues or direct from the original source ? I suspect the latter which means it is the link between the camera and the recording machine that has created the poor signal. It could even be down to the quality of the tapes you have used.

Why would it play reasonably well in another player ? (I say reasonably since, by your own words there are issues - you do not AFAIK get black lines with tracking). I can only guess at this. The older player may be less sensitive to low signals - better heads etc.

If that player can play the tape albeit with the black lines then I suggest you transfer with that. Post an example of that and it may well be possible to clean that up with filters.

I have no idea when and how the copy was made.
When I use the older VCR, the black lines are shown constantly, they don't get worse, they're just there all the time.
When I have time I'll connect the older VCR again and record a short clip and I'll upload it here.

Thanks for your help!

[Megahurts]

If you had an oscilloscope and monitored the control pulse, you would see the amplitude vary. If it varies too low then the tracking would drift and would display your problem. This is a problem of the recording VCR.

The control head is the lower part of the audio head. While playing the original tape, put slight pressure using a dry que tip on the tape at the control head. It might be enough to see the low amplitude control pulse.

[johns0]

The picture doesn't disappear when the control tracking gets too low,the speed will start go off and switch between different modes of speeds.

When the picture disappears its cause there's not enough video signal being either picked up the video heads or video amp circuit,one being incompatible tape to machine and the other a vcr hardware problem.

[mammo1789]

Maybe the tape losses oxide on that spots and instantly clogs the video heads, i had problem with that kind of tape problem on some places the tape is sticky and it losses signal ( maybe the layer is in process of deterioration) and after that spot on the tape the tape is ok and the loose shed is picked up by the good part and it continues to show signal.

[imma]

Finally, I digitalized the tape!
I borrowed a VCR from my aunt, which was exactly the same brand and model than my newer VCR, so I didn't think that it would work. But it did. First I tried with the original VHS, but it seems like it's too old, and after some time it stopped working and when i tried to eject it, the tape didn't get inside the VHS and I could see that it looked kind of dirty or white in some parts.
So I tried with the copy, and it worked just fine!
So thank you all for your help!

[DB83]

No black lines ?

[imma]

No black lines ?

No black lines

[mammo1789]

Finally, I digitalized the tape!
I borrowed a VCR from my aunt, which was exactly the same brand and model than my newer VCR, so I didn't think that it would work. But it did. First I tried with the original VHS, but it seems like it's too old, and after some time it stopped working and when i tried to eject it, the tape didn't get inside the VHS and I could see that it looked kind of dirty or white in some parts.
So I tried with the copy, and it worked just fine!
So thank you all for your help!

The most confusing post, did the vcr recorder was old and dirty or the tape was old and dirty did you used copy of the tape or what ?

[imma]

Finally, I digitalized the tape!
I borrowed a VCR from my aunt, which was exactly the same brand and model than my newer VCR, so I didn't think that it would work. But it did. First I tried with the original VHS, but it seems like it's too old, and after some time it stopped working and when i tried to eject it, the tape didn't get inside the VHS and I could see that it looked kind of dirty or white in some parts.
So I tried with the copy, and it worked just fine!
So thank you all for your help!

The most confusing post, did the vcr recorder was old and dirty or the tape was old and dirty did you used copy of the tape or what ?

The old tape (the original) was old and dirty. I used the copy of the tape that someone once did.