Question about using virtual pc to eliminate computers in internet bars

[jimdagys]

I was in a public library with about 50 computers, and noticed that there were no computer box associated with each monitor.
There was only a tiny box with 2 USB ports for each work station. Curious about this, I asked the librarian, and he said they use virtual pc. There is only one computer to manage all the separate workstations. I hadn't seen this before, and I have been to a lot of libraries and internet bars. Certainly, there is an obvious big cost savings (and space savings and energy savings) by having only one computer instead of 50 computers.
My questions are:
1) How widespread is this kind of use of virtual pc? It seems like a dream come true for cost savings for libraries and internet bars.
2) What are the disadvantages? It seems that if 50 people are watching videos, the one computer would not be fast enough. Also, gone is the DVD/CD romdrive.
3) Do you think there will be more of this type of setup?
4) Is there a link that gives more info on this setup that is written in easy to understand language?

[mh2360]

2) If each virtual machine has USB I/O then an external drive would certainly be possible.

I was wondering what kind of graphics hardware was used to connect 50 monitors to the host machine.

[rallynavvie]

This is likely virtual desktop infrastructure. You have one server with multiple virtual machines (VM) running on it which are then accessed by clients (the workstations you saw). There was probably a "thin client", a very small footprint computer, somewhere near the monitor/keyboard/mouse for each, possibly even built into the monitor. The thin client has minimal hardware (CPU, memory, probably just an SD card for bootup) and connections for local peripherals (keyboard, mouse, display, optical drive, USB drives, etc.). What did the keyboard, mouse, monitor, and USB box connect to?

Think of your client session as a remote desktop into one of the virtual machines on the server. The thin client has barebones software to boot up and connect to the VM server and fetch an unused VM. One of the best parts about using this for public access is that the VMs in this arrangement likely have a clean, master image. Each time you log out, instead of wiping temp data and rebooting, the VM is destroyed and a new one cloned off the clean master. Someone else could sit down at that station immediately after you with a newly-refreshed VM back to its starting state.

I've been toying with virtualization for several years now. It takes some convincing to get most folks to understand how a VM abstracts itself from the underlying host hardware, contained in its own virtual universe if you like. Read up at vmware.com, my favorite virtualization provider. They offer VMware Player for free which has the ability to load and run VMs on your own machine, accessed through a window on your desktop (almost as if you were remoted into another machine). I run several on my home workstation, and have my own VMware ESX server at home to play around with different media center software and for testing peripherals or troubleshooting other OS. Like the big VM setup above you can also make a clean "snapshot" of your VM that you can revert back to. I often use a VM to first install shady software, in case it turns out to be rubbish, as I can just revert to that last good snapshot like nothing ever happened. Neat stuff, it really it. I'd be happy to answer any questions I can, I know enough to be dangerous but it's a big hobby of mine.

[jimdagys]

What did the keyboard, mouse, monitor, and USB box connect to?

Thanks for the reply. This setup is in the Tallahassee public library. I'm not there anymore, so I can't give anymore details. Other than the small USB box (about 2 cu in in size), I couldn't see any other boxes. I might write them and see if I can get a tech to give me some more info.

One of the best parts about using this for public access is that the VMs in this arrangement likely have a clean, master image

All libraries/internet bars I have been to, each new user gets a clean image of Windows. This is why you cannot install a program that requires rebooting the computer. Other than that, I often go to libraries to test the most ad infested, registry/dll damaging malware, because everything will be re-imaged on next boot-up of the computer. Other than physically smashing the computer, you can't hurt it.

[drjtech]

You can buy thin clients which are actually part of your network jack wall plate:

http://www.chippc.com/company/index.asp?p=8640238333

[Nelson37]

I've worked with a number of these, there are many advantages, principally that the user can't screw it up. For just internet access, any of the systems should work just fine. They are often tailored to specific software installations.

There's less to go wrong, but there are some drawbacks. The hardware "thin client" is not as cheap as you might think, and they are generally not repairable if they fail. You have a small sample of suppliers to draw from, compared to a PC in general. Once you pick the software, your range of choices gets more limited still. The main server also needs to be beefier than normal. Supporting the software requires specialized knowledge, it's not crazy difficult but usually more Unix-like. Also, if the server goes down, you have no functional systems. Finally, the hardware is in fairly small demand, re-sale value is minimal if you ever change systems or shut down the company.
I have four thin-client units in my trunk right now, they're about to hit the side of the road. You still in Florida?

For a small number of systems, you could achieve most of the benefits by using a live CD, or even a Linux boot CD, along with inexpensive, basic PC's, for less money.

[edDV]

1) How widespread is this kind of use of virtual pc? It seems like a dream come true for cost savings for libraries and internet bars.

VM allows many to connect through common CPU hardware but hardware assisted video playback is not part of the deal unless that is provisioned. In other words, think email and simple web browsing with maybe flash playback shared over the users. The host software must either limit CPU capacity per user or allow one guy to bring the system to knees for all by playing HD Vimeo.

[MilesAhead]

Whatever happened to the Smart Terminal with XWindows? Or is Linux just so foreign people can't figure out how to browse and do email?

edit: I guess they call 'em "intelligent terminals" if they have graphics hardware. It was supposed to be the wave of the future. But there have been zillions of waves and not all good for surfing.

[edDV]

Whatever happened to the Smart Terminal with XWindows? Or is Linux just so foreign people can't figure out how to browse and do email?

edit: I guess they call 'em "intelligent terminals" if they have graphics hardware. It was supposed to be the wave of the future. But there have been zillions of waves and not all good for surfing.

That would work for a Mozilla (Firefox) or maybe Google Chrome browser interface but do you seriously expect a bar user to deal with an x386 GUI?

[MilesAhead]

What do you mean by x386 GUI? I'm not familiar with the term. Anyway, if there's a browser, graphical email client, and FTP client to click on, what's the difficulty? I could see for editing Linux is way foreign(when I started ti switch between command and edit mode in vi without thinking it scared me, so I got off it!)

[edDV]

x386 is a Unix/Linux GUI. They can be customized (dumbed down) for hotels/cafe/libraries etc. as can Windows IE/CE.

The whole point is to sell an internet connection (usually with advertising) but throttle bit rate options. No way would FTP be offered. The goal is to offer a minimal connect but not let a power user bring the system down. You may have a whole motel sharing an ADSL connect.

[rallynavvie]

All libraries/internet bars I have been to, each new user gets a clean image of Windows. This is why you cannot install a program that requires rebooting the computer. Other than that, I often go to libraries to test the most ad infested, registry/dll damaging malware, because everything will be re-imaged on next boot-up of the computer. Other than physically smashing the computer, you can't hurt it.

That sort of system restore software has been around for a while. For instance there's a software called Deep Freeze that does this sort of thing. Problem is it requires a reboot, POST and all, which can take some time depending on the complexity of the image. With VMs you can have several sitting idle so that they can be used instantaneously while the old one is being deleted. As soon as that one is in use the system can propagate another VM.

One of our POCs at work hosts 50 client workstations meant for remote professionals (Office suite, browser, some internal software) on only two beefy servers. Each is allowed 10GB of persistent space for their personal files but the rest is refreshed when they log out. The master image is updated on an as-needed basis with the latest patches for the software on it. I think we kept our VM pool at 10+current users and never ran into resource issues. CPU is usually the least concern for this sort of setup, between the two boxes are 24 cores worth. Memory is usually key as you don't want to overcommit on it but we run 32GB in each box and allow up to 2GB per guest and haven't run into an issue there (yet). The worst part was really the disks. VMs like a lot of platters and that's taken the most tweaking to get right. While the master image is hosted on a NAS the guests are load balanced across both boxes, each has a 12-disk RAID 15. We've tried RAID 10 and RAID 5/6 prior to testing 15.

Online video playback hasn't been an issue that I recall. I know some of the guest users are on YouTube, Hulu, Netflix but not sure about Vimeo. Even though it's hardware-emulated video it seems to do OK with 2D. 3D is almost out of the question on bare metal hypervisors, but at home I do get pretty good performance on with my hosted hypervisor (VMware Workstation).

[MilesAhead]

x386 is a Unix/Linux GUI. They can be customized (dumbed down) for hotels/cafe/libraries etc. as can Windows IE/CE.

The whole point is to sell an internet connection (usually with advertising) but throttle bit rate options. No way would FTP be offered. The goal is to offer a minimal connect but not let a power user bring the system down. You may have a whole motel sharing an ADSL connect.

I see. Thanks for the info.