Import/Capture Video from MiniDV - Audio is Choppy

[Guy Leatherman]

I am trying to import/capture from MiniDV camcorder via firewire to laptop using Windows Movie Maker. I have a Samsung DC D353 camcorder.

The video comes out fine, but the audio comes back choppy. I have tried it on Vista 64, and Win XP both with the same results. I have tried Windows Video Import and also another software. All with the same reults. The MiniDV tape plays fine through the TV. I have two tapes that do the same thing.

Finally I tried a third tape and the audio and video were both captured fine! What is it about the other two tapes? The only difference is I know of is the troublesome tapes were both were shot on an older JVC camcorder. The third tape was shot on a Sony HC36. They are all MiniDV. So what could be the problem?

[aedipuss]

capture DVavi using the free winDV. the audio on the old tapes could be 12bit rather than the usual 16 bit. check with mediainfo and see if there's a difference noted, put it in text mode and paste the results here if you want.

[Guy Leatherman]

General
Complete name : c:\temp\temp\ChoppyAudio
Format : AVI
Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave
Format_Commercial_IfAny : DVCPRO
File size : 85.4 MiB
Duration : 23s 490ms
Overall bit rate : 30.5 Mbps
Recorded date : 2002-08-25 17:17:02
Video
ID : 0
Format : DV
Format_Commercial_IfAny : DVCPRO
Codec ID : dvsd
Codec ID/Hint : Sony
Duration : 23s 490ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 24.4 Mbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4:3
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Standard : NTSC
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:1:1
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Interlaced
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 2.357
Stream size : 80.6 MiB (94%)
Audio
ID : 1
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Format settings, Sign : Signed
Codec ID : 1
Codec ID/Hint : Microsoft
Duration : 23s 487ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 536 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 4.30 MiB (5%)
Interleave, duration : 33 ms (1.00 video frame)

[aedipuss]

did you try winDV? make sure the options are set to type II avi and see if that plays ok. otherwise i don't see any obvious problems, as the audio is 16bit.

[Gavino]

i don't see any obvious problems, as the audio is 16bit.

On the contrary - most DV cameras shoot by default in 12 bit 32Khz mode, and various threads have reported problems (fortunately, solvable) in trying to capture 16 bit audio. For example, see here.

[aedipuss]

i don't see any obvious problems, as the audio is 16bit.

On the contrary - most DV cameras shoot by default in 12 bit 32Khz mode, and various threads have reported problems (fortunately, solvable) in trying to capture 16 bit audio. For example, see here.

guess you never worked with DV. 12 bit is for 4 channel and can cause problems with programs when consumer cams record it in stereo. 16 bit is the preferred 2 channel audio version.

[Gavino]

guess you never worked with DV. 12 bit is for 4 channel and can cause problems with programs when consumer cams record it in stereo. 16 bit is the preferred 2 channel audio version.

I've never worked with anything but DV.
If you read the thread I linked, or used search, you will find many problems reported with capturing 16-bit audio.
I prefer to use 16-bit too - that's how I discovered the problem!

[Guy Leatherman]

Yes. I used WinDV to capture a small clip. I used the type 2 AVI setting. Then I used MediaInfo to get the video information which I posted above.

[aedipuss]

strange. the captured data on your hard drive is exactly the same as on the tape. the only thing i can think of is maybe the cam is putting the wrong info in the headers. check what audio mode (12 or 16 bit) the cam is in and switch it to the other. capture a piece and see if it's any better.

[filmboss80]

guess you never worked with DV. 12 bit is for 4 channel and can cause problems with programs when consumer cams record it in stereo. 16 bit is the preferred 2 channel audio version.

I've never worked with anything but DV.
If you read the thread I linked, or used search, you will find many problems reported with capturing 16-bit audio.
I prefer to use 16-bit too - that's how I discovered the problem!

You misunderstood the thread of that link. Of course, if the original video was recorded in 12-bit, you must capture and edit that way. But, by far, most problems occur with 12-bit, 4-channel audio in DV files, as most editing software is geared toward the standard of 16-bit.

Yes, a lot of DV camcorder recorded 12-bit by default (don't know if they still do) which IMHO was a huge mistake from the onset. The original purpose was to help consumer video hobbyists add narration and/or music without much hassle. However, for the pro or prosumer using most standard non-linear editors, this became a problem.

The OP's mediainfo report definitely says 16-bit. My only guess is that the audio tracking from the JVC differed from the Sony device.

[aedipuss]

another thing. check if the cam has the option to switch between 41k and 48k audio.

maybe also try starting tape playback before clicking the capture button, as it forces the cam into the proper playback mode before writing anything to the hard drive.

[Gavino]

You misunderstood the thread of that link. Of course, if the original video was recorded in 12-bit, you must capture and edit that way. But, by far, most problems occur with 12-bit, 4-channel audio in DV files, as most editing software is geared toward the standard of 16-bit.

The OP is having problems with the capture, not editing. I have never known problems in capturing 12-bit audio, but I have occasionally seen problems (also reported by others with some cameras) when capturing 16-bit audio, where the result is some hybrid AVI file which appears in some ways to be 16-bit and in others to be 12-bit.

maybe also try starting tape playback before clicking the capture button, as it forces the cam into the proper playback mode before writing anything to the hard drive.

Exactly the advice I gave in this post in the thread I linked.

[filmboss80]

Standard 12-bit audio on DV has a 32 kHz sample rate. Camcorder manufacturers set the 12-bit, 4-channel option only for the purpose of allowing additional tracks to be recorded onto the original tape itself. Most NLEs have had significant problems with 12-bit DV audio. (I don't know if that is still true, because I know of no editor who uses anything but 16-bit audio.) It is grossly misleading to suggest 16-bit (48 kHz) audio is more problematic in any way than 12-bit.

Until contrary evidence is provided, I still believe this problem is a head alignment mismatch between the JVC and Sony camcorders.

[aedipuss]

Until contrary evidence is provided, I still believe this problem is a head alignment mismatch between the JVC and Sony camcorders.

even worse than that the cam he is using to capture the jvc's and sony's tapes with is a samsung....

[Guy Leatherman]

The setting on the camcorder was set on 12 bit. I changed it to 16 bit but I have the same results.(Used WinDV) I noticed that although the audio is very choppy, I am noticing that the video is slightly choppy as well. Not nearly as noticiable as the audio. This particular video tape is worse than all the rest. (Perhaps, (grasping @ straws) because it was recorded at the beach on a sunny day with the constant ocean churning sound in the background?) Is there more data to capture from this tape because of all the ligh and sound, and thats why its failing to capture all the audio and video?

[aedipuss]

no the data rate on the tape is constant no matter what is recorded. does windv report any dropped frames?

[Guy Leatherman]

How do I find out if there were dropped frames? Is there an output file? I didnt notice any interface for that.

[aedipuss]

windv has a notification area at the bottom where the count shows up during capture.