Cores Vs. Ghz for photo programs ?

[Noahtuck]

A friend of mine wants to build a new PC for photo editing.

She will be using Photoshop CS5, Lightroom, Corel® PaintShop Photo Pro X3, etc.

There is a pretty tight budget so she can't buy the best of everything.

No video work just photo's from her digital SLR.

She will be using at least 2gigs (maybe 4) of dual channel ram but i am curious as to what would be better for a CPU in terms of cores vs. ghz.

For those types of programs would it be better to use a 2.5ghz dual core or would a 1.9ghz triple core be better ?
She also might be able to get a 2.3ghz quad core.

Plus we need to figure out a good PCI-E video card to get under a tight budget but she won't be playing any games either.

[jagabo]

http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/desktop-cpu-charts-2010/Image-Processing-Adobe-Phot...CS-5,2426.html

But, unless she's doing a lot of batch processing, or dealing with some of the most CPU intensive filters, I doubt she'll see much difference.

[Noahtuck]

http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/desktop-cpu-charts-2010/Image-Processing-Adobe-Phot...CS-5,2426.html

You love that place don't you
I should probably remember it and look there more often.

And just to add to my previous post, she will be using an AMD CPU.

[lordsmurf]

My experience is that faster cores is better than more slower cores. I edit photos most often on a single-core AMD laptop, from an eSATA RAID-1 connected. Or from an AMD quad core 1.8Ghz. Speed is about the same on both. Hard drive speed is most important, for the thumbnail generation in Bridge, especially on RAW files. (This means no opening images direct from the card unless you're insane. It's slow.)

Even with more advanced filters, I rarely wait more than a couple of seconds at most, on either system.

[lordsmurf]

http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/desktop-cpu-charts-2010/Image-Processing-Adobe-Phot...CS-5,2426.html
But, unless she's doing a lot of batch processing, or dealing with some of the most CPU intensive filters, I doubt she'll see much difference.

Exactly. Note the tests used:

Image Processing (Applying 6 filters to a 69 MB TIF image)

Who even does that?
Clearly those specs are for non-photographic use of Photoshop. Think about it:
- A TIF? Who shoots TIF? Everything is RAW or JPEG.
- Six filters in a chain? A chain? You can't really batch process photos. Each image is different.

If you want to batch tasks (for example, thumbnail generation), there are far leaner dedicated apps for this.
Don't use heavy photo editing software for puny tasks.

[Noahtuck]

She does use quite a bit of filters for different things, not sure exactly what ones but.

She does a lot of weddings, graduation & artsy fartsy photos, LOL!!

All the CPU's on there are higher Ghz and they are using DDR3 1333 ram, i don't know how much those things affect compared to the CPU's she is looking at but they do show that even at a lower Ghz more cores do seem to make PS run faster.

[Noahtuck]

My experience is that faster cores is better than more slower cores. I edit photos most often on a single-core AMD laptop, from an eSATA RAID-1 connected. Or from an AMD quad core 1.8Ghz. Speed is about the same on both. Hard drive speed is most important, for the thumbnail generation in Bridge, especially on RAW files. (This means no opening images direct from the card unless you're insane. It's slow.)

Even with more advanced filters, I rarely wait more than a couple of seconds at most, on either system.

Right now she is using an old P4 2.6 ghz single core, might be a 2.8ghz but i don't recall at the moment, with 1gig of DDR ram and when i installed her programs on my 2.5ghz dual core with 2gigs of DDR2 dual channel ram, they ran way faster on mine.
I'm sure all that makes a big difference also.

But she is also still using an IDE HDD where i have a SATA 2 (?) HDD.

[lordsmurf]

What I always find funny is people who think they need fast computers probably shoot less photos in a year than I do in a one-day assignment. People have the dumbest ideas about photo, whether it's one of my cameras "only" having certain number of MP, my lens "only" being Xmm, or my computer being "only" x speed with x RAM.

For example, I have this:http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002SQKVD0?ie=UTF8&tag=thdifa-20&linkCode=as2&camp=17...SIN=B002SQKVD0
You really won't find a better camera today, period. (Maybe a Phase One? Or Hasselblad H3D?)
And use AF-S version of this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00005LEOH?ie=UTF8&tag=thdifa-20&linkCode=as2&camp=17...SIN=B00005LEOH
This is one of the sharpest zoom lenses ever made by anybody.
Anyway, somebody says "wow, that must have 100 megapixels?"
Of course that's insane and unnecessary. So I inform them that it's actually a 13MP camera.
Their response? "Oh. My little camera does 12MP." and then a sneer like my camera is a piece of shit.
Morons.

People who think you need a Mac for photo are equally ridiculous.

I also have a P4 2.8Ghz 400FSB, IDE, and Photoshop CS2+ is slow. I don't use it for photo anymore.
Move to newer CPU, SATA, no problem on CS3 or CS4.

Anyway, there's no reason to piss away huge sums of money on the computer. Save the $$$$ for photo gear.

[lordsmurf]

She will be using Photoshop CS5, Lightroom, Corel® PaintShop Photo Pro X3, etc.

Tell her to pick one. It will just mess with her workflow otherwise.

I chose Bridge + ACR + Photoshop CS3/CS4, and I'm sticking with it.
My computer time is minimal, because I have a process. Output is great, works for publication as needed.

[edDV]

Curious that back in the Pentium I days, a SCSI RAID was necessary for Photoshop to move around "high resolution" 4 Megapixel Tiffs/Jpgs. Later hard drives got fast enough to do it with one drive.

Now with these 8+ Megapixel RAW files, we are back to RAID or solid state drives (SSD) to get any performance. Also, RAW files need CPU filtering just to get to an exportable image.

The new HDR (high dynamic range) trend adds more to hard drive and CPU load.

But all this is important only for the most cutting edge work.

If you don't use RAW files or filter large resolutions much, the old P4 computer should have reasonable performance with Photoshop.

[vhelp]

I'm even more curious about how the equipment works from camera -to- computer. There seems to be a bottle-neck somewhere in that chain.

How do most equpiment handle this process?

SD cards or direct connect ?

And, what about just converting to PNG, it is lossless and much smaller--to work with.

Or, maybe i'm missing something.

I'm looking at it from a AVI video sequence point of view, where you have thousands of images display on a timeline very quickly--instantly in fact.

If someone is shooting raw or tif (or, is the standad raw->tif, i don't know those things) then I would imagine that the images (depending on the MP setting) would be a consistant dimension, right ?

So, i'm not sure where I'm going with this, but it is all interesting since I am building various tools for both video and photos. Anyway, I would prefer to convert down to a usable size (for speed) and then work with that. Course, you keep your originals somewhere in archive--1TB external hdds do come in handy for this. Mind you, i'm just an amature at these things.

One last thing I've noticed on a lot of these cameras these days. The latest trend (or feature) is the histogram. It seems that they are pushing this feature out on every camera. I wonder if any of you guys who are using DSLR's regularly, are you using it or do you feel you are too pro (can eye it through touch/sense) that you don't need it. I read a lot where some individuals are snobby about there use, if you know what I mean.

-vhelp 5414

[jagabo]

would it be better to use a 2.5ghz dual core or would a 1.9ghz triple core be better ?
She also might be able to get a 2.3ghz quad core.

Why are bottom feeding like this? A 3.0 GHz Phenom II X3 is under US$90 and faster than all of them:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103699

And a 3 GHz Athlon II X3 is only US$75:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103843

You must be getting your CPUs for free to make it worth the savings.

I'd go with 4 GB of DRAM if you're going to use Win7.

[Noahtuck]

She does put more money into equipment but she had her digital SLR and a few lenses, etc. stolen out of her car a little over a month ago so she has some borrowed equipment for the time being.
She does about 2 photo shoots a week.

Personally i don't know the rhyme or reason of what programs she uses for why.
She is single, divorced, does not make a ton of money and has been doing photography for years and makes money at it for supplemental income and her 24 year old daughter in her 3rd year of college got sick and died last year from cancer right after her 24th birthday and i know that sucked up a lot of her finances.

She is basically looking at $300.00 to build a new PC and the only thing's she already has are her dvd burner, sound card, Wirless network card & multi card reader because those are the only things there are to really salvage from her old one to put in a new one, so it is basically a build from the ground up and even a dual core 2.5ghz will be a lot faster than the PC she has now.

She is looking at a case w/psu, Sata HDD, mobo, cpu (maybe AM Cooler), ram, PCI-E video card,
the video card does not need to be anything super great or fast as she does not play games, but would like to be able to hook it to her 42" HDTV for watching dvd's, xvids, unless i can find a decent mobo with built in HDMI output.

She has been looking at some of the barebone's on tiger direct, but I am going to look around some more on newegg and see what i can come up with.

[Noahtuck]

Also that triple core for $75.00 is the one i have and i unlocked the 4th core and it now registers as a Phenom II X4 and smokes!

My mobo that i used to unlock the 4th core also has onboard HDMI, VGA & DVI, but those 2 things already add up to $155.00 which leaves $145.00 for ram, HDD & case w/psu, but the case does not need to be anything fancy, just plain jane housing.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128394

Unless there is another mobo that is cheaper and has onboard HDMI and will allow the unlocking of that CPU's 4th core ?

[jagabo]

Yeah, $300 is a pretty tight budget for a full computer. Watch NewEgg or Frys for motherboard/CPU combos. Our local Frys used to have combos that were about the same price as buying just the CPU from NewEgg. Those seemed to have disappeared lately though. And the motherboards were often mediocre.

[lordsmurf]

@vhelp
I don't use the histograms, no. Too many photographers have ADD, I think, playing with crap on the camera instead of taking photos. You only need two things: a meter and knowledge of exposure. The end. Meters have been in cameras for ages now, and are quite good. In the film days, you took your shots and then went back to a darkroom. You didn't play with the camera after every shot. I only preview on an LCD when I am testing something new and don't want to lose the shot opportunity.

@noah
Honestly, just watch Tigerdirect sales.
This was $300 this weekend (sold out now): http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=6666407&sku=B69-0237

[Noahtuck]

Yep, i have been watching TD for a few days now and they have dropped from 44 to 42 the other day and now i see they dropped to 38 BB kits today.

I know they pop back up all the time and a couple of weeks ago the triple core 3.0ghz BB kits popped back up for around $250.00 with the gigabyte mobo that you can unlock the 4th core but they sold out fast.

I have been looking though a ton of stuff this afternoon putting list's together at different price points and i can still put together a triple core 3.0ghz including a cheaper video card for about $300.00.

She is coming by after dinner to go over some stuff and see what she want's to do, plus i'm gonna try and nudge her up a little more in $$
I am not making anything off it, just putting it together, setting it up & loading all her software on it.

I was looking at this card for her as it's pretty cheap and even though it is only DDR2 ram it's 1gb onboard and it has DVI & HDMI outputs on it,
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5677155&CatId=3585

She is not a gamer so that is not an issue.

Plus it does not take up 2 PCI slots so she won't lose one of them.

P.S.
Another funny thing is circuit city online sells basically the same barebones as tiger direct, and sometimes has kits TG does not have,
http://www.circuitcity.com/applications/category/category_slc.asp?Recs=10&Nav=|c:332|&Sort=4

But i ma kind of leery ordering anything from them, LOL!!

[lordsmurf]

Graphics cards aren't really going to do crap for photo editing.
CPU isn't all that important either.

It's all RAM and hard drive access speeds.

I'd avoid spending money on graphics/CPU and dump it all into RAM.
I have 2GB on one system, 6GB on the other. That makes a difference.
I'd push for 8GB if the motherboard supports it. x64 OS, of course.

If she's smart, she'd opt for a RAID-1 eSATA for about $300.
Read this: http://www.digitalFAQ.com/forum/showthread.php/best-hard-drive-2189.html

If you have a Fry's close, look for the Simpletech Duo Pro 1TB in stores.
It's not really online anywhere.
Open it up, remove that dumb buzzy fan. It's unnecessary.

[Noahtuck]

Well the thing is she wants to hook it up to her 42" HDTV, LCD i think, i know it's a skinny flat screen, so i figured something like that would be good for watching movies and not suck up ram from on the mobo, it's more for that then doing photos.

Although a couple of the mobo's i was looking at have onboard HDMI, and add on cards usually work much better than any onboard graphics i have ever used.

An no fry's near me, i have only heard of them on here and other places but i have never actually seen one.
Just best buy, officemax, and the standard PC shops, all are way to much $$ for getting parts!!

I'm thinking about getting this mobo, same as mine, then i can unlock the 4th core on that 3.0ghz triple core.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128394

I guess we could try it without the addon graphics card first to see how it works out.

[lordsmurf]

I guess we could try it without the addon graphics card first to see how it works out.

Yeah, do that.

[jagabo]

Tiger Direct and Circuit City are owned by the same company. 785G should have decent (non-gaming) performance. You don't need HDMI, you can use a DVI->HDMI cable.

[Noahtuck]

Okay, i will have her try it that way first as she won't be playing any bluray or anything, just standard dvd's & Xvid's and that mobo has all 3 onboard video outputs.

She was gonna start with 2gb's of DDR3 ram but by dropping the video card for now she can get start out with 4gb's of ram, although with that mobo she will be using DDR2.

I was also looking at this mobo to help save her a little money to put elsewhere,
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128408

But i don't know if it can unlock the 4th core, although that is not a big deal, and the first review listed the guy said something about the onboard video but it sounds like it might be his TV or him not getting something setup correctly......

[lordsmurf]

Tiger Direct and Circuit City are owned by the same company.

+ CompUSA

although with that mobo she will be using DDR2

With photo, it's about quantity, not speed.

[jagabo]

Tiger Direct and Circuit City are owned by the same company.

+ CompUSA

And the owner is Systemax.

[edDV]

Systemax has also acquired the remains of CompUSA from Carlos Slim.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemax
http://chicagobreakingbusiness.com/2010/03/systemax-to-reopen-compusa-in-chicago.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CompUSA

Also an interesting writeup on Tiger Direct's rebate performance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_Direct

[greymalkin]

I'd like to throw lenovo outlet in the hat as well. Every once in a while they have a pretty sweet desktop (core 2 duo 2.5+ghz, 4gb ram, 750gb sata2 hdd, etc.) for around $300.

It's usually the scratch & dent ones..the other ones are much lower spec and more expensive. But probably at least once a week a batch of the higher end ones pop up for some pretty slick prices. This is just the tower/kb/mouse...since she's going to hook it to her lcd monitor that should be all she needs.

http://outlet.lenovo.com/desktops.html

Now the other refurbished/etc. computers seem a little high to me..or sometimes they have some that look good but have like 512mb ram..etc. But if you keep looking you will hopefully find the sweet ones! I replaced some computers for my sisters office a couple years ago with some pretty good spec machines for $250 a peice waiting on deals on this site.

you may also want to check out deal sites like www.slickdeals.net where people post crazy deals they find on all kinds of stuff.

[lordsmurf]

Microcenter.com and Frys.com can have online-only specials, too.
Watch for those.

[lordsmurf]

http://www.woot.com/

HP Pavilion Elite Quad Core Desktop w/1TB HDD, 8GB RAM & Blu-Ray
$579.99 + $5 shipping
Condition:Refurbished
Product: 1 HP HPE-210F Quad Core 3Ghz AMD Phenom, 8GB, 1TB, Blu-Ray, 802.11n, ATI Radeon HD, Win 7 Home Prem 64

Not bad.

[lordsmurf]

Just got this in email: http://bit.ly/tigerquad250

Price: $249.99
Asus M2N68-AM PLUS Diablotek Barebones Kit - Asus M2N68-AM PLUS Mobo,
Crucial 2GB DDR2,
AMD Phenom X4 9600 BE CPU,
Seagate 1TB HDD,
Lite-On DVD Writer,
Diablotek 400W PSU,
Diablotek ATX Mid-Tower Case

That would work great.

[Noahtuck]

Price: $249.99
Asus M2N68-AM PLUS Diablotek Barebones Kit - Asus M2N68-AM PLUS Mobo,
Crucial 2GB DDR2,
AMD Phenom X4 9600 BE CPU,
Seagate 1TB HDD,
Lite-On DVD Writer,
Diablotek 400W PSU,
Diablotek ATX Mid-Tower Case

That would work great.

Yep, i saw that in my e-mail earlier also.

The thing is it would be another $50.00 for the same stick of ram to bump it up to 4gbs, then a cpu cooler, all the fans because the case does not have any and it only has 1 video output on the mobo.

We sat down the other night and went through some parts and came up with this from newegg,

AMD Athlon II X3 445 Rana 3.1GHz 3 x 512KB - $77.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103872

GIGABYTE GA-MA74GM-S2 AM3/AM2+/AM2 - $49.99
It has DVI & VGA outputs, until she gets a video card later.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128342

Western Digital Caviar Blue WD5000AAKS 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s - $54.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136073

Crucial 2GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 - $38.99 x2 = $77.98
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148164

They have a plain jane case with a 500w PSU for 29.99 and some 80mm fans for $2.00 each.

The total comes up to $296.91 + $20.41 sh = $317.32

It would be nice if that tri-core 3.0ghz with the GIGABYTE GA-MA785GM-US2H bare bones kit would pop back up at tiger for $270.00 then i could unlock the 4th core and build her a quad 3.0ghz.
It was gone for a long time then it popped up a couple of weeks ago and was gone again the same day.

She is waiting to make sure the check from her last job clears before ordering everything so we still have a couple of days in case something better pops up for cheap.

I am sure she would love a 1TB drive, but she has not even filled her 250gb she has now, she does not do video anything like we do, heck, i have a movie i am working on right now and it's 239gb's uncompressed

I was going to get this one,
AMD Athlon II X3 440 Rana 3.0GHz 3 x 512KB - $74.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103843

Because i can unlock the 4th core, but yesterday they became unavailable then this morning they were listed again so we will see when we end up making the order.