copy VHS tapes to computer

[pfisher]

Hello all, I am new to this forum. I don't know where my question would land. I have a question about taking old VHS tapes and copying them to a computer. I guess you call it digitizing. I have a few questions.

1. Which VCR is good for copying VHS tapes? Does it matter which VCR I use?
2. What are the devices that I need for copying purposes besides a VCR and computer?
3. Which software would be good to use to capture video and sound?

Obviously, I am looking for something that captures good video and sound without losing any quality.

I appreciate the help.

Phil

[freebird73717]

I use an old hauppage pvr-150 and have had very good luck with that. One nice thing is that it is not affected by macrovision. Good for capturing vhs tapes that weren't released to dvd.

Here is a good place to start reading
http://www.digitalfaq.com/guides/video/index-record-capture.htm

[pfisher]

Have you converted VHS tapes over to digital or to your computer using this particular VCR? If so, after the conversion, how is the sound and video quality on the computer?

[pfisher]

The Hauppage PVR-150, it is a VCR, right? When I do a search on Google, I see Hauppage WinTV PVR-150 tuners. I just want to make sure that Hauppage did have a VCR line at one point or another in the past. I not interested in the Tuner just a plain old VCR.

[pfisher]

Sorry for the many questions, how old is the Hauppage PVR-150 VCR? Are we talking like 5-10 years old.

[freebird73717]

yeah the pvr is a tuner and it is old but still works damn fine. I like it because it ignores macrovision (used on commercial tapes). You could probably pick up a used one for very little cash. You have to have a tuner to get the video from the vcr to your computer. If you want a new tuner then look at any of the hauppage line that offers analog capture.

As far as the vcr goes, the better the vcr then the better picture it will output for your tuner to capture. Look here for some good vcr suggestions.
http://www.digitalfaq.com/guides/video/capture-playback-hardware.htm

[usually_quiet]

You may find you need a TBC or a proc amp in addition to a good VCR and a capture card for the computer. Certain old Panasonic DVD recorders can correct other problems when used as a pass-through.

You may find it helpful to read through the stickies and recent posts in the restoration forum. https://forum.videohelp.com/forums/41-Restoration

There is also this long thread about two VCRs that are often recommended for VHS capture. https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/267958-VCR-comparison-JVC-HR-S9600-Panasonic-NV-FS200-(AG-1980)

[pfisher]

Oh, ok, I misunderstood you. I was thinking the PVR-150 was a VCR. So, if I take a VCR and connect it to a Media Center to transfer the video, I still need a tuner? I can't take a VCR, connect it to a Media center using S-Video?

[pfisher]

I just want this to be straight and simple. Nothing fancy. Just a VCR + ? + computer. That is it. The question is the ? to connect the VCR to computer.

[usually_quiet]

Oh, ok, I misunderstood you. I was thinking the PVR-150 was a VCR. So, if I take a VCR and connect it to a Media Center to transfer the video, I still need a tuner? I can't take a VCR, connect it to a Media center using S-Video?

It depends on where the S-Video port is located. You didn't list any any computer info in your user profile, so it is hard to tell what you have available.

If the S-Video port is on a capture device installed in the Media Center PC, you could certainly use it. However, if the S-Video port is on a normal VGA card, it is going to be video-out only, so you would need to buy a capture device.

[Edit] Re-reading the question, I think I may have misunderstood what you were asking about. Ideally you would use the Hauppauge PVR 150's S-Video port, and stereo audio-in to make the capture. Second choice would be composite video plus stereo audio-in. The Hauppauge PVR 150 has a coax input for the tuner, which you could use for VHS captures by tuning to channel 3 or 4, but it would be your least desirable VHS capture choice.

Even if it does have a tuner that you will never use, it could be a good choice. It is not impossible to find, it only needs a PCI slot, and there are drivers for XP, Vista or Windows 7. On the minus side, it had more reported compatibility problems than some earlier Hauppauge cards. While some people had no problems with it, others could never get it working right. (Those earlier Hauppauge cards can be harder to find and only have XP drivers available.)

[pfisher]

Usually_Quiet,

My Media center computer is an HP Pavilion MC 2005 with the S-Video and composite ports in the front panel of the computer. They are built-in to the motherboard. I believe this should work if I take an S-video cable and connect it directly to a VCR. I can't do that? Would I lose any sound or picture quality? That is my main concern. Forgive in asking, what is the tuner used for? What is the purpose of a Tuner? Now, what kind of VCR is good to use. Not all VCR's are created equal. For the most part they are but you know what I am saying. Tell me what is a good VCR to use or would any VCR do? Is there any particular settings in the VCR that I need to be aware of when considering a VCR for my purposes?

[lordsmurf]

I just want this to be straight and simple. Nothing fancy. Just a VCR + ? + computer. That is it. The question is the ? to connect the VCR to computer.

You usually can't do it. Analog VHS video signals are chaotic and messy. A TV was made to work with a chaotic/messy signal. A computer was not. It needs a cleaned non-messy signal. It needs to be cleaned with a filter, known as a TBC. A separate TBC, not one embedded in a VCR or other device. (TBCs embedded in devices clean the picture quality, not the signal quality. Not the same.)

The computer has to have a special input card. Motherboards and most pre-built systems have output at best, not input. Most don't have any analog output, to be honest. You have to buy an input card.

Having a cheap consumer non-pro VCR gives low video quality. Not having a TBC may prevent a transfer from even happening. Having a budget-grade capture card may cause loss of audio sync, audio quality issues, etc.

Best VCR list: http://www.digitalFAQ.com/forum/showthread.php/vcr-buying-guide-1567.html
More info/examples: http://www.digitalFAQ.com/guides/video/capture-playback-hardware.htm
You'll have to find these VCRs used, as pro VCRs are no longer made. eBay, etc

Good analog capture (input) card: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00138EOH8?ie=UTF8&tag=thdifa-20&linkCode=as2&camp=17...SIN=B00138EOH8
ATI 600 USB. Ignore the stupid photo. It has s-video and composite, too, not just coax TV tuner.

Good TBC: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/276891-REG/AV_Toolbox_AVT_8710_AVT_8710_Multi_St...3167/KBID/4166
AVT-8710, about $200 plus shipping (cheap price for video gear)

That'll do you for basic transfer at decent quality.
If you only have a few tapes, or need more advanced work, consider a reliable service. (Not a chain like Walgreens, not somebody in a strip mall -- find a reliable service online, known for their quality of work.)

[usually_quiet]

Usually_Quiet,

My Media center computer is an HP Pavilion MC 2005 with the S-Video and composite ports in the front panel of the computer. They are built-in to the motherboard. I believe this should work if I take an S-video cable and connect it directly to a VCR. I can't do that? Would I lose any sound or picture quality? That is my main concern. Forgive in asking, what is the tuner used for? What is the purpose of a Tuner? Now, what kind of VCR is good to use. Not all VCR's are created equal. For the most part they are but you know what I am saying. Tell me what is a good VCR to use or would any VCR do? Is there any particular settings in the VCR that I need to be aware of when considering a VCR for my purposes?

HP made a few different Pavilion models that came with Media Center 2005 installed. Since there is no actual model number for me to work with, I'll have to make an educated guess. From your description those are likely to be line inputs for an integrated TV tuner/capture device. If that is so, you can capture with the S-Video and stereo audio ports, but should probably use software other than MCE 2005 for capturing. Whether or not the integrated capture/tuner card is any good for what you want to do is another question.

I don't think your expectation that this will be simple is realistic, either. You should pay attention to what lordsmurf wrote. Most people who try this find it can't be done successfully without investing in more equipment than a good VCR and a PC capture device. Things will show up in the capture that you never see watching the tape using your VCR and your TV. Some of those things can only be corrected or minimized by hardware sitting between the VCR and the capture device. A few other things can be fixed or hidden using software. Some things you'll have to live with.

[pfisher]

Lord Smurf,

Please provide me with a list of Tuners besides the AVT-8710. I just want a simple, cheap one that will do the job.

[usually_quiet]

The AVT-8710 is a time base corrector, not a tuner. $200 is a reasonable price for a new TBC made for consumer use. One of the other popular consumer TBCs, the Datavideo TBC-1000, costs in the neighborhood of $500.

Time base correctors prevent some of the otherwise virtually inescapable problems that show up in VHS captures. This post has a good layman-friendly explanation about why they are necessary: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/189335-TBC-1000-Before-and-after-pics?p=1023780#post1023780

[pfisher]

Ok, then I should go with a TBC, right? So, what you are saying is the more expensive TBC's the better quality both with sound and picture? Is that correct?

[usually_quiet]

For me, the AVT-8710 would be the preferred choice.

I have read a few discussions about the two devices, and the AVT-8710 is reputedly at least as good for time base correction as the Datavideo TBC-1000, plus it offers some additional functionality even though it costs less.

The AVT-8710 has a built-in processing amplifier (proc amp) which provides the ability to adjust brightness, contrast, color saturation, hue and sharpness. It doesn't have built-in audio connections, but that doesn't cause any significant problems according to those who use the AVT-8710.

The more expensive Datavideo TBC-1000 is supposedly somewhat better built, has a metal exterior, and includes connections for audio, but lacks a built-in proc amp.

[Ron B]

For me, the AVT-8710 would be the preferred choice.

Same here. It's a good deal on a TBC, you pretty much need one to avoid all sorts of problems.
I went through a few capture cards and finally bit the bullet and got an ADVC 110. With a decent VCR, the TBC and the ADVC 110, converting analog tapes is much easier.

[pfisher]

I have another question. In the article, Video Guides-Basic playback hardware, the author mentions that he likes the JVC HR-S9800u model. The S9500u model has TBC built-in with limited filters. What is the difference between the S9800u, S9500u and S9911u? So, if the 9500u model has a TBC built-in then do I need to buy an external TBC to work with the S9500u? I am trying to cut down on the cost here too. If I can get away with using a VCR with a built-in TBC then I like this approach better.

[RecoveryTTA]

Hi, you could try a RCA Input card for your pc , hook to the vcr. Most of these cards will include a recording software as well, creative labs i believe makes a good one. Or
You can try a device that connects to your vcr and records the video to digital file format on a cd card. There is a device called brook stone iconvert, costs around $45.00 or so, records to a sd card.

Hope this helps as well.

[usually_quiet]

I have another question. In the article, Video Guides-Basic playback hardware, the author mentions that he likes the JVC HR-S9800u model. The S9500u model has TBC built-in with limited filters. What is the difference between the S9800u, S9500u and S9911u? So, if the 9500u model has a TBC built-in then do I need to buy an external TBC to work with the S9500u? I am trying to cut down on the cost here too. If I can get away with using a VCR with a built-in TBC then I like this approach better.

I was hoping someone with more expertise in this area would answer you, but since nobody has, I'll do my best. My understanding is that the TBCs built into these VCRs are far more limited than a separate TBC, and can't really replace them.

[jagabo]

S-VHS decks have only line time base correctors. These align individual scanlines so they line up vertically and don't move horizontally from frame to frame. They will not provide a continuous vertical sync signal if there are dropouts from damaged tapes. External devices are full frame time base correctors. They will provide a rock solid vertical sync signal even if the tape is severely damaged. This helps prevent A/V sync errors.

[davideck]

The internal VCR TBCs do a great job of timebase correction (lining up scan lines), but they do not provide frame synchronization (continuous sync). The external "TBC"s provide frame synchronization, but have limited timebase correction capabilities.

If you are not experiencing A/V sync issues, then an external TBC may not be necessary.

An alternative to an external TBC is a DVD Recorder in passthrough. Some DVD Recorders (Philips 3575) provide excellent timebase correction performance in addition to frame synchronization. Some include proc amp controls as well.

[pfisher]

Ok, so what about a DVD/VCR combo unit. Does any combo units have a built-in TBC? If so, which combo units are recommended?

So, everyone is basically saying that I need to get an external TBC. Right? So, here is the biggest question, DO I BUY A VCR WITH OR WITHOUT BUILT-IN TBC? Basically, either way I will be connecting an external TBC to it. Correct? I will go ahead to see if I can find a JVC HR S model VCR. I don't want to spend $100-200 on it but if I have to then I will. I will find one with built-in TBC and I will capture it on the computer. Then, I will see how it looks on the computer. I will go from there. Most likely I will have to purchase an external TBC. I didn't want to get this involved with it, money speaking. I thought I could just go out and find a good VCR to convert the tapes to computer. Apparently, I have to spend some money to get a good quality image and sound.

[jagabo]

There were some JVC combos with TBC. For example:
http://www.amazon.com/JVC-SR-MV45US-DVD-R-S-VHS-Dual/dp/B000OH7RF0

The line TBC in an S-VHS deck will probably be enough to fix your horizontal sync problem. Another thing you can try (on the cheap) is a Panasonic ES15 DVD recorder. You can find these (used, via ebay) in the USA for about $75. They have a full frame TBC that works pretty well for h-sync problems:
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/319420-Who-uses-a-DVD-recorder-as-a-line-TBC-and-wh...=1#post1983288

The TBC is active on the passthrough so you don't need to record to DVD (which the ES15 mediocre at).

PM Lordsmurf and ask him to have a look at your samples. He has a lot of experience with VHS problems like yours. He can probably give you a much more definitive answer. If you only have a few tapes to convert you're better off paying a professional with a lot of experience do it.

[usually_quiet]

Ok, so what about a DVD/VCR combo unit. Does any combo units have a built-in TBC? If so, which combo units are recommended?

So, everyone is basically saying that I need to get an external TBC. Right? So, here is the biggest question, DO I BUY A VCR WITH OR WITHOUT BUILT-IN TBC? Basically, either way I will be connecting an external TBC to it. Correct? I will go ahead to see if I can find a JVC HR S model VCR. I don't want to spend $100-200 on it but if I have to then I will. I will find one with built-in TBC and I will capture it on the computer. Then, I will see how it looks on the computer. I will go from there. Most likely I will have to purchase an external TBC. I didn't want to get this involved with it, money speaking. I thought I could just go out and find a good VCR to convert the tapes to computer. Apparently, I have to spend some money to get a good quality image and sound.

Yes, you could start with a good SVHS deck with a built-in TBC and your computer and see how it goes.

I second jagabo's advice in the post above this one. lordsmurf may also have some thoughts about how to find a quality professional service, if one is needed.

Regarding the use of DVD recorders: Some people here do transfer VHS tapes to DVD using a DVD recorder, but still use separate SVHS and DVD recorder units. This allows more flexibility in choosing their primary pieces of equipment. Plus, it lets them place other devices in between the source and the destination if it is needed to correct problems in the signal not handled by the DVD recorder or SVHS deck. Other people here who digitize VHS tapes pass the signal through a DVD recorder (without recording) on the way to their PC capture device. They use the DVD recorder's filters for cleaning up troublesome problems that their TBCs and various other equipment aren't able to fix.

As you saw, a high-quality DVD/VHS combo recorder is expensive. Stay away from inexpensive consumer DVD Recorder/VHS combo units. The people here who would know say that even compared to older consumer VCRs, current combo models are poorly constructed. Cheap tape drives introduce more problems than good ones.

[jagabo]

If you can you should just try another VHS deck. You might get lucky and find it clears up the major sync problem. An S-VHS deck with TBC, standalone full frame TBC, and proc amp will get you better results but it will cost you US$1000 buying used equipment.