are subtitle displayed selectivily from a single subtitle track?

[rakan]

I have a DVD movie that has an 2 audio tracks, an english and a japanese one, and 1 subtitle track (an english one).

Naturally, when I play the movie using the Japanese audio track, ALL the subtitle are displayed no matter what.

However, when I play the movie using the English audio track, only the occasional subtitle is displayed. This usually happens when there is a scene in the movie where there is some readable Japanese characters on a note or a piece of paper. In these cases the subtitles appear to tell the viewer what the characters mean.

My question is, since there is no second subtitle track (that I can see), I'm assuming that that my video player can determine what region/language I'm playing the movie in and selectively display the subtitles from that single subtitle track. Is this what's going on? Or is there a second subtitle track I'm not aware of.

If there is a "selective" display" of the subtitles, how do I rip the ones that display when watching the movie using the english audio track? Thanks.

[jman98]

Need more info. How exactly do you know that there is only 1 subtitle track? Did you simply look at the menu? Or did you actually use a tool like IFOEdit or something similar to check for subtitles? If you just assumed because of the menu that there is only 1 subtitle track, then yes, there may be one that you are not aware of.

Subtitles can be forced on as a DVD command. Or the video may simply be encoded so that the selective subtitles are actually part of the image. My guess is that there is probably a 2nd subtitle track with only those few subs that is forced on when you listen to the audio in English.

If there is a 2nd subtitle track then you can extract it with any ripper. If it's part of the image itself then you'll have to use some kind of OCR subtitle program that hopefully can catch the subs when they come on.

[rakan]

I opened the DVD using IFOedit and under the section named "Title Set" there was only the movie (mpeg-2), the two audio tracks (japanese and english), and the subtitle track. I also checked using DVDshrink.

They are definitely not hard-subbed (part of picture), I checked each frame using avisynth, also I can rip the movie and encode it without any subtitles being displayed.

Do you have any suggestions for displaying the subtitles that are forced to play when I use the english audio track? Otherwise I'd be forced to convert the entire subtitle track and edit it to include only those few subtitles I need.

[manono]

Assuming you're correct in concluding there's only one subtitle stream, then there's a flag set on the ones for signs and such that forces them and only them to play. You can extract the VobSubs (IDX/SUB), then change a setting in the IDX file to have only the forced subs play:

# ON: displays only forced subtitles, OFF: shows everything
forced subs: OFF

Just change OFF to ON.

I don't quite understand, though. Are you converting the DVD movie to some other format? If so, and if VobSubs are OK, then what I just described should be enough. If you plan on hard coding the subs into the video, the VobSubs are enough. If you're keeping it as DVD, getting back the menus and menu commands with the original subs will be enough. If you just want to save out the forced subs, one way would be to extract the SUP file from the movie (PGCDemux), open it in DVDSubEdit and check the box in the picture before going File->Save All Modifications. You can then convert the edited SUP file to VobSubs instantly using SubtitleCreator and OCR from that if you need to.



And real fans of 'foreign' films watch them in their original language and wouldn't be caught dead listening to a poor English dub track.

[rakan]

I don't quite understand, though. Are you converting the DVD movie to some other format? If so, and if VobSubs are OK, then what I just described should be enough.

Yes, I already converted the DVD to a x264 file, now I need to add the subtitles. I used the english audio but the subtitle track I ripped has the information needed if the viewer were watching in Japanese. This is the only subtitle track I can detect using IFOedit and DVDshrink. When I play the movie using smplayer there is only the choice of english or none subtitles. Selecting the english subtitle option (which is really the only option) while listening to the english audio track results in that "selective" subtitle as I described earlier.

check the box in the picture before going File->Save All Modifications. You can then convert the edited SUP file to VobSubs instantly using SubtitleCreator and OCR from that if you need to.

When I select this box the entire movie becomes grayed out. I guess there are no forced subs. However, I cannot find any other subtitle tracks than the one I already ripped. I'm still uncertain as to why this is the case.

[manono]

To make sure of the number of subtitle streams you can open the DVD in PGCEdit and double-click on the movie. In the new screen you'll see the number listed. Or, you can open a VobSub (IDX/SUB) in SubResynch (included in the VobSub package) and there's a column for forced subs and you can check to see if there are any.

Did you demux the subs from the DVD using PGCDemux? If those subs for the English track are a separate stream (and not forced and included in the main subtitle stream), you'll get a second SUP file.

I used the english audio but the subtitle track I ripped has the information needed if the viewer were watching in Japanese.

In what format are your subs? If you OCR'd you lost the forced subs flag (if they're really forced subs)

[rakan]

To make sure of the number of subtitle streams you can open the DVD in PGCEdit and double-click on the movie. In the new screen you'll see the number listed.

I did as you suggested and opened the movie in PGCedit, there was only one subtitle stream.

Did you demux the subs from the DVD using PGCDemux? If those subs for the English track are a separate stream (and not forced and included in the main subtitle stream), you'll get a second SUP file.

I used PGCDemux, there was only one .sup file created.

In what format are your subs? If you OCR'd you lost the forced subs flag (if they're really forced subs)

They are still in the .sup format. I also made a .srt file from them using subrip.

[manono]

Then they pretty much have to be forced subs. Convert your SUP file to VobSub using SubtitleCreator and then open the IDX in SubResynch and you should see some of them marked as Forced. You can click on the lines and read the dialog. I have no idea why DVDSubEdit didn't work to save the forced subs in SUP format. I'd figure it out but I don't have any DVDs with forced subs handy to test things out with. Nor do I hardly ever work with x264. Perhaps someone else can help.

[rakan]

Convert your SUP file to VobSub using SubtitleCreator

SubtitleCreator is not letting me open the .sup file. It only let's me open text subtitles and palette (IFO). How do I open .sup files with subtitlecreator?

[manono]

SubtitleCreator is not letting me open the .sup file. It only let's me open text subtitles and palette (IFO). How do I open .sup files with subtitlecreator?

File->Open Subtitle

If you already had it installed, maybe you have to upgrade it as it didn't always work with SUP files. I have v2.3RC1.

Unless you're the same guy, there's a thread by a different person about a similar (same?) problem over at Doom9 that might help you:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=151397

[rakan]

I had version 2.2, I installed 2.3 rc1 and everything worked fine. I still wasn't able to detect any forced subs using any of the applications you suggested. However, SubtitleCreator was just what I needed. I unselected all the subtitles and then went through and reselected on the ones I wanted. It took a few minutes but it was the easiest way to solve my problem. The guy in the doom9 forum is not me, but it seems he is having a similar problem. Thanks for all your help!

[manono]

You're welcome. I'm puzzled why nothing shows the subs as forced, though. Your own perseverence and ingenuity came to the rescue and you solved the problem. Good going!