Ulead's DVD WorkShop emcdoer has a field order problem

[Lamont Cranston]

I capture a 720 x 480 AVI file with the field order top field first. The DVD mpeg file I created with Ulead's encoder was jerky indicating the wrong filed order. The filed order must be chosen internally by Ulead's encoder since there is no way to change it. I encoded the same avi file with TMPGEnc using the same parameters, the CORRECT field order and imported it into DVD WorkShopand burned the DVD. The DVD was fine. The DVD WorkShop encoder has a problem.

[ratt794]

Ulead has allways had the Field Order Backwards form everyone else.
This is a well known issue with their software.

[Spicuzza]

This has nothing to do with Ulead.
Read, Frames and Fields:
http://www.ulead.com/learning/video3/page1.htm
Your capture card either packs them Field Order A or Field Order B.

[Lamont Cranston]

This has nothing to do with Ulead.
Read, Frames and Fields:
http://www.ulead.com/learning/video3/page1.htm
Your capture card either packs them Field Order A or Field Order B.

Well it does not work in this case. I have an ATI AIW 128 Pro and capture 720 x 480 with AVI_IO. When I capture from my Panansonic S-VHS or from the Satellite I capture A frame first. When I capture from Sony SLV-R5UC S-VHS I capture B frame first. I capture thru s cable and the setup is identical. Please explain.

Ulead tech support confirms the encoder in DVD WorkShop does not support B field first. It will be corrected in a later release. DVD Complete has no problem encoding the B field first.

Yes, Ulead has the field names reversed.

[ratt794]

This has everything to do with Ulead - They are the only company that has DV-AVI as field order "A" when in fact it is Field order "B".

All other software programs use Field order "B" when working with DV-AVI files so this makes Ulead the different one.

[Spicuzza]

First, I would ask, Did you read Ulead's tutorial?

I also have the ATI All-in-Wonder 128 Pro and it packs the frames Field Order B. When making an MPEG-2 SVCD, I simply have the output set to Field Order B when encoding with VideoStudio 6.0 and it plays perfectly on my Pioneer DV-343.

From Ulead:
Capture card drivers often offer the option of capturing one field per frame (sometimes you can choose the first or second), or capturing both fields. In addition, when capturing both fields there is a question of what order the fields are packed into the frames of the file on disk. Most drivers pack them in the order they are scanned, field-A first, but some pack them field-B first. Your capture card's documentation should tell you which field order it uses, but if you can't find it try order A and do a field-dependent trial edit. If the result plays badly, try order B. DV Type-1 is always order A.
If the editor doesn't know that the input frames contain pairs of fields, it may do completely wrong things with the images.

They should know they wrote the software.

[Lamont Cranston]

First, I would ask, Did you read Ulead's tutorial?

I also have the ATI All-in-Wonder 128 Pro and it packs the frames Field Order B. When making an MPEG-2 SVCD, I simply have the output set to Field Order B when encoding with VideoStudio 6.0 and it plays perfectly on my Pioneer DV-343.

From Ulead:
Capture card drivers often offer the option of capturing one field per frame (sometimes you can choose the first or second), or capturing both fields. In addition, when capturing both fields there is a question of what order the fields are packed into the frames of the file on disk. Most drivers pack them in the order they are scanned, field-A first, but some pack them field-B first. Your capture card's documentation should tell you which field order it uses, but if you can't find it try order A and do a field-dependent trial edit. If the result plays badly, try order B. DV Type-1 is always order A.
If the editor doesn't know that the input frames contain pairs of fields, it may do completely wrong things with the images.

They should know they wrote the software.

I understand the capture process but let me clarify the points I was trying to make.

Ulead has interchanged the definitions of A and B fields. In the following I will be referring to the correct definition of the field order. Ulead has a several areas where they are not technically correct or to standard.

First, I am referring to DVD WorkShop NOT VideoStudio 6.


Second, Ulead DVD WorkShop mpeg encoder can ONLY encode files packed B Field first. If you have an AVI file that is packed A field first it will be encoded as if it was B field first and the mpeg will be jumpy. There is NOT an enternal setting for selecting field order on the encoder.

Third, the ATI AIW 128 Pro packs the data B field first from all the video sources I have captured from EXCEPT the Sony SLV-R5UC S-VHS VCR. The Sony video, s or composite, is captured A field first. Why, I do not know and I am not in a position to instrument the Sony to find the reason.

[Spicuzza]

Lamont Cranston, I would like to apologize to you in advanced for making you the butt end of this post.
Do yourself a favor and NEVER testify in court as you have repeatedly impeached yourself to the point that your posts make no sense.

Lamont do you see any contradiction in your words?

I capture a 720 x 480 AVI file with the field order top field first.
When I capture from Sony SLV-R5UC S-VHS I capture B frame first.
Ulead tech support confirms the encoder in DVD WorkShop does not support B field first.
Ulead DVD WorkShop mpeg encoder can ONLY encode files packed B Field first.
The Sony video, s or composite, is captured A field first.

Now, if Ulead's DVD Workshop does not allow you to change the output field order to match the captured field order and defaults to field order A, top field, odd field, then that is definitely a limitation in the software and is useful information.

However, coming from you, I would have to see a signed and notarized statement from Ulead expressing this condition as it does not make logical sense to me that VideoStudio 6 (a $99 product) allows you to do backflips but DVD Workshop (a $279 product) has this limitation.

Please don't bother posting a reply to this until after you've read:
Frames and Fields:
http://www.ulead.com/learning/video3/page1.htm, from Ulead and Interlacing, http://www.lukesvideo.com/

Gary Spicuzza
Holiday, FL USA

[Lamont Cranston]

Spicuzza, if you took the trouble to read the post , and had a technical understanding of the process, you would realize it was a typo on my part that caused contradiction.

In one of your posts you stated:

This has nothing to do with Ulead.
Read, Frames and Fields:
http://www.ulead.com/learning/video3/page1.htm
Your capture card either packs them Field Order A or Field Order B.

I stated a exception where the ATI AIW 128 Pro packed A field first when the source was a Sony VCR not the normal B field first. I was looking for a possible explanation why the AIW 128 Pro packed A field first not a tutorial on fields and frames.

First, I would ask, Did you read Ulead's tutorial?

I also have the ATI All-in-Wonder 128 Pro and it packs the frames Field Order B. When making an MPEG-2 SVCD, I simply have the output set to Field Order B when encoding with VideoStudio 6.0 and it plays perfectly on my Pioneer DV-343

Aging you respond with no constructive explanation of why the AIW 128 Pro was packing A field order first and refer to VideoStudio 6 not DVD WorkShop which you are obviously not familiar with.

Now, if Ulead's DVD Workshop does not allow you to change the output field order to match the captured field order and defaults to field order A, top field, odd field, then that is definitely a limitation in the software and is useful information.

However, coming from you, I would have to see a signed and notarized statement from Ulead expressing this condition as it does not make logical sense to me that VideoStudio 6 (a $99 product) allows you to do backflips but DVD Workshop (a $279 product) has this limitation.

Please don't bother posting a reply to this until after you've read:
Frames and Fields:
http://www.ulead.com/learning/video3/page1.htm, from Ulead and Interlacing, http://www.lukesvideo.com/

It is apparent that you totally lack the technical expertise necessary to contribute a constructive contribution to the problem. Instead of trying to understand and contribute you turn it into a personal attack. You are a sorry example.

[Spicuzza]

Lamont Cranston wrote:

it was a typo on my part that caused contradiction

Well, Lamont I'm glad you've cleared that up. There is a big difference between guilty-not guilty, field A-field B, septic-skeptic, Lamont-lament.

Now, you are the person who drafted your posts. If you're going to offer technical guidance at least proof read your words so it makes sense to the reader.

It's still quite obvious that you haven't yet grasp the fact that your capture card drivers are what is determining the field order of the captured video.

Here's a quote from http://www.lukesvideo.com/
1) The fields in your captured video are swapped or in the wrong order.
This is caused when your capture card puts the fields in the wrong order. It can occur, for example, if your capture card starts capturing the odd/even lines in the wrong order or doesn't place them correctly into memory.

Have a great day and typo away as it makes for very entertaining reading.

Gary Spicuzza
Holiday, FL USA

[Lamont Cranston]

Easy solution. MainConcept's DV codec can be configured to swap fields on compress or decompress and PICVideo MJPEG codec can be configured to swap fields on decompress.