Pinnacle 500 - No colors with NTSC VHS

[Sepu]

Hi there.

I'm trying to record with my Pinnacle Studio 8 software a VHS with the composite connectors.
I connected my VCR (it can read NTSC VHS on PAL TV), through a SCART adapter and directly into my Pinnacle 500 Capture card (not PCI).

I can see the image correctly but without colors.
I tried with PAL, NTSC and SECAM (on the software).

The only way to see it correctly is NTSC (right, like the VHS), but the colors is lost. Why?

Waiting for replies.
Thanks
Chris

[FulciLives]

I suspect this is because your VHS VCR is only capable of outputing a NTSC VHS as a PAL60 signal instead of a true NTSC signal ... this is a "cheat" used in many European countries that will allow full color playback of NTSC VHS on a PAL TV but a PAL60 signal is not true NTSC and the result is that most capture hardware (in fact just about anything that isn't a European TV) only "sees" a black and white image.

You need to get a VHS VCR that can play a NTSC VHS as NTSC and not PAL60 and although I am in the USA some people posting here that do live in Europe have said that finding such a VHS VCR (especially these days) that does that is very difficult for them ... unless they import one from the USA.

The problem isn't NTSC VHS but how the European electronics companies decided to "handle" it for PAL Televisions all those years ago.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Sepu]

that's what I heard into a VCR store too.

Anyway I just tried different things with another software.

The VHS is an NTSC for sure because there is "T" on it, and it's 160mins.
If I select SECAM and a frame size of 720x480 (so a NTSC frame size) I can see it correctly, with colors.

If I selecte NTSC, I can't see the colors!!!! in every frame size format, that's the weird thing!

The compression too is important, I had to put it "RGB 24".

[JohnnyMalaria]

For "European" VCRs with NTSC playback, the key thing to look for is "NTSC 3.58". If it says "NTSC 4.43", then you will get the PAL60. The 3.58 and 4.43 refer to the frequency (in MHz) that the color signal is modulated at. PAL and SECAM use 4.43MHz.

Note, often you'll have to look on the packaging box or the manual for the device for an NTSC logo with smaller numbers next to it.

Tenlab sell a converter for NTSC 4.43 -> NTSC 3.58 ( http://www.tenlab.com/tr3.html ).

[Sepu]

how can I know if my NTSC VHS is a 3.58 or a 4.43??

I checked and when I select NTSC, there is no way to select something about the color frequency.

Anyway when I select SECAM I can see the colors, that's weird!!

I checked on google.com for a lot of forums etc about this problem.
Finally I understood that the best thing it's to rip in NTSC frame size, like 720x480
The problem it's anyway the color, how can get it?¿ probably the only way is to buy a REAL NTSC VCR...

[FulciLives]

You need a real NTSC VHS VCR.

It's that simple.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[JohnnyMalaria]

I have a European PAL Sony VCR circa 1994 that has NTSC playback. It supports true NTSC (3.58 MHz color carrier) and NTSC 4.43.

Another option to consider is a proper multistandard VCR. e.g., http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/video-recorder/samsung-sv-5000-1/

How much NTSC material do you have?

[Sepu]

I've just a few NTSC VHS from a friend, but maybe I will get some others in the future, so I would like to be able to copy every format, including SECAM too (I bought a VCR for SECAM too, S-VHS with S-video output).

I ordered a CMD-1500 (http://www.world-import.com/cmd1500.htm) to connect with the S-video connectors, with that I think I will be able to transfer every video format.

What do you think?

Chris

[FulciLives]

I've just a few NTSC VHS from a friend, but maybe I will get some others in the future, so I would like to be able to copy every format, including SECAM too (I bought a VCR for SECAM too, S-VHS with S-video output).

I ordered a CMD-1500 (http://www.world-import.com/cmd1500.htm) to connect with the S-video connectors, with that I think I will be able to transfer every video format.

What do you think?

Chris

It will work but that device will give you shit quality video.

At least the old CMD-800 was shit for PAL to NTSC.

Should have just bought a NTSC VHS VCR.

Plus ... and I could be wrong ... but I don't think that device can handle a PAL60 signal.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[JohnnyMalaria]

Should have just bought a NTSC VHS VCR.

The only problem with that is getting one in Europe without paying through the proverbial nose. Though I'm sure there are online options. Even with, say, a 100% mark-up, bog standard VCRs are so cheap, it might still be viable.

[FulciLives]

Should have just bought a NTSC VHS VCR.

The only problem with that is getting one in Europe without paying through the proverbial nose. Though I'm sure there are online options. Even with, say, a 100% mark-up, bog standard VCRs are so cheap, it might still be viable.

I don't think you realize how expensive the CMD unit is ... while it is smaller and lighter than a VHS VCR it is much more expensive. So I am sure the CMD is cheaper to ship but still.

It would have been cheaper to just buy a USA model NTSC VHS and have it shipped from the USA to wherever in Europe than to have bought the CMD unit.

But hey if it works ...

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Sepu]

Should have just bought a NTSC VHS VCR.

The only problem with that is getting one in Europe without paying through the proverbial nose. Though I'm sure there are online options. Even with, say, a 100% mark-up, bog standard VCRs are so cheap, it might still be viable.

I don't think you realize how expensive the CMD unit is ... while it is smaller and lighter than a VHS VCR it is much more expensive. So I am sure the CMD is cheaper to ship but still.

It would have been cheaper to just buy a USA model NTSC VHS and have it shipped from the USA to wherever in Europe than to have bought the CMD unit.

But hey if it works ...

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

True, I paid around 55$ for the shipping, instead of around 90-100$ for the VCRs.

Anyway, I hope it will worth the money
Later
Chris

[Sepu]

UPDATE: Got the CMD yesterday and I tried it.

I can't do the transfer, the CMD can't recognize the true signal that goes out from my VCR.
So, PAL 60 is different than NTSC 4.43! (this is what the guy that sold me the CMD told me too in an e-mail this morning).

Damn....I still have to buy a true NTSC VCR but I need SECAM too and S-video output.
I didn't find any VCR with these technical things.

Someone can help me please?
If not I need to buy 2 different VCRs, one for true NTSC and one for true SECAM.
Sh*t, that's a lot of money...

[FulciLives]

You could try this ---> CLICK HERE

That is expensive but it is S-VHS so it has S-Video output and it fully supports NTSC and PAL and MESECAM but I know nothing about SECAM so I don't know what MESECAM means.

Remember that this type of multi-system VCR only outputs what you play. Play back a NTSC VHS and you get NTSC output ... play back a PAL VHS and you get PAL output etc.

You can find something that is very similiar but without S-VHS S-Video for a lot cheaper but you said you want S-Video output so that is why I linked to that particular model.

For instance this model looks like a good choice ---> CLICK HERE

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Sepu]

thanks John, I've still to understand what's the difference about PAL60 and NTSC 4.43.

Anyway, I need s-video because they say it's a lot better instead of RCA.

MESECAM it's just for recording SECAM signal or something like this, nothing to do with play the SECAM format.

[Sepu]

btw John, instead of a multisystem, it's better for me to only get a true NTSC (only) VCR with s-video, any good idea?

[FulciLives]

thanks John, I've still to understand what's the difference about PAL60 and NTSC 4.43.

Anyway, I need s-video because they say it's a lot better instead of RCA.

MESECAM it's just for recording SECAM signal or something like this, nothing to do with play the SECAM format.

You can get better quality from VHS videos when using S-Video but this really only applies to commercially created factory made VHS videos. At least that is my understanding.

And even then the difference between composite and S-Video ... when the source is VHS ... is very small and in your case I don't think I would spend an arm and a leg just to get S-Video output for VHS use.

Anyways that JVC I linked to in my earlier post has S-Video output but I'm unsure how well it handles SECAM but it does do NTSC S-VHS/VHS and PAL S-VHS/VHS.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Sepu]

could be, anyway I found less expensive VCRs on the JVC.com website, that plays only NTSC and are S-VHS (including S-video output).--> around 150$

I don't need another PAL S-VHS VCR

[JohnnyMalaria]

Have you tried playing SECAM videos in your PAL VCR? I seem to recall reading somewhere that this can work.

There's an interesting (and possibly useful) Wikipedia article on SECAM at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SECAM

A funny snippet:

American engineers pejoratively claim that SECAM stands for "System Essentially Contrary to the American Method". European non-SECAM countries use the deprecatory "System Even Crappier than American Method" or "Shows Every Colour All Murky" — a reference to the reduction in vertical color resolution. A french alternative is "Systeme Élegant Contre les AMericains", meaning "An Elegant System to Compete Against the Americans".

[Sepu]

yes I tried, but they are b&w on the TV, so it doesn't work.
I just found a good Panasonic VCR including SECAM + S-video. 8)

I miss only a VCR that can play true NTSC now