Analog Video Capture recommendation

[Bizuser]

I'm building a new PC from ground up, with the goal of doing video capture.

What is the best solution for a) analog capture to AVI; b) analog capture direct to MPEG2, with a compliant MPEG2 stream (can be burned to SVCD directly if necessary)?

My current PC has ATI All In Wonder 128, and it's been 'OK' for analog capture to AVI format; capturing direct to MPEG2 format has been problematic in that the resultant stream has been non-compliant (I hear this is fixed in MMC 7.7, though).

I've read good things about Canopus ADVC-100, but its external, requires firewire (prefer USB2), and does not handle MPEG2 direct (but maybe the software that comes with it does?) Willing to add firewire if necessary.

Also considering a Pinnacle studio deluxe, analog/digital combo capture.

Or could go with an ATI AIW Radeon.

Or any other solution - $300 or less.

Again - want good quality analog capture with audio synch; MPEG2 on the fly if possible (I know how to encode AVI->MPEG2 in TMPG - want to bypass this step if possible). For now, 480x480 is sufficient (SVCD format) but I guess larger would be better.

[SHS]

How about WinTV-PVR 250 then you be recording in REALtime Hardware the only thing is you have use TMPG or nanoCOSMOS MPEG Editor to MUX (multiplexed) the clip then it be complian SVCD ready for burning.
Can you just MUX (multiplexed) the ATI clip that should make it compliant SVCD?.

[davideck]

For Analog to MPEG2 captures, check out the Hauppauge WinTV PVR-250. As a Tivo device it is pretty lame, but as a real time MPEG2 encoder it is great! I have been converting my old SVHS home videos to DVD and the results have been fantastic! I have a newer version of the card and have only installed the drivers, the MPEG2 decoders and the WinTV2K application off of the CD and it works flawlessly. You can adjust Brightness, Contrast, Saturation and Hue, as well as the Audio and Video Bitrates. Nice interface lets you save custom bitrate templates. Works great on SVCD too. Haven't tried VCD. Ulead MF2 can then take the MPEG2 file and burn it directly to DVD-RW in fast editable mode without any further processing delay. Burning to DVD-R requires a video/audio multiplex step. Still pretty quick, and excellent quality!

[lennyt]

"For Analog to MPEG2 captures, check out the Hauppauge WinTV PVR-250. As a Tivo device it is pretty lame"

I can not agree with the above.

I have been capturing movies on TV with WinTV PVR-250 using the TV Scheduler and the TV listings with great results. I edit out the commercials and then burn to SVCD and DVD. I also have the ATI All In Wonder Pro 128 but can not use for SVCD. ATI said it was not compatable, only the 2 latest models, the 128 does not work with MMC 7.7. I found that out the hard way and I had to reinstall the whole graphic card. PVR-250 is a very good buy for the price ($99-$149). The only feature it does not have is TV Out to a VCR.

[davideck]

lennyt - I stand corrected. I did not mean to degrade this card. I think it is great. It's just that the PVR-250 has gotten a lot of bad reviews associated with Tivo functionality, TV scheduling, installing, etc. I was only trying to make the point that despite what negative things others have said about this card, it is the best MPEG2 hardware encoder value out there.

[Bizuser]

Wow - looks like I should look at the PVR-250!

Regarding MPEG2 from both ATI and PVR-250:

Are you guys saying that I will need to demux/remux the mpeg 2 stream from PVR-250 in order to get an SVCD compliant stream? I don't mind doing that; just want to be sure.

With ATI AIW 128, MMC 7.1, and MPEG2, I tried demux/remux in TMPG and also bbMPEG (a great muxer) but got audio synch errors on the output stream. Also, if I tried to 'cut' (edit) the stream in TMPG, the audio synch went to hell in a handbasket.

Davideck:

Ulead MF2 can then take the MPEG2 file and burn it directly to DVD-RW in fast editable mode without any further processing delay. Burning to DVD-R requires a video/audio multiplex step.

- why would dvd-rw be different from dvd-r? What is this 'video/audio multiplex step' - what exactly are you doing (what tool; how were the streams demultiplexed in the first place?)

My ideal process would be: capture direct to MPEG2. Do very minor editing (simple cut-out of ads, trim the end point, etc) using TMPG; Optionally do splitting in TMPG also (TMPG can split MPEG2 files into smaller files). This needs to work without screwing up the audio synch, and the result needs to be SVCD compliant - that is, I can burn using VCDEasy to SVCD format.

Thanks!

[davideck]

I am using Ulead MF2 (still using the trial version) to burn DVDs directly from the MPEG2 file captured by the WinTV2K application. I am not doing any editing, so it might complicate things if you do, I don't know. When burning rewritables, MF2 allows you to select between DVD-Video (compliant?) or Fast-Editable mode. The Fast-Editable mode starts burning the MPEG2 file to DVD or SVCD immediately. The DVD-Video mode goes through a video/audio multiplex step. I don't know what this step is doing (can someone please enlighten me?) but it takes a little while for a 1 hour MPEG2 file. When burning DVD-R, I could only get the DVD-Video mode to work.

[Bizuser]

Sounds like I'm buying a PVR-250!

Even though the end use will be a new system, can I load this in my current system, which has an ATI AIW 128? Sounds like someone here already has both cards in the system.

Actually, I currently have TWO ATI cards in the system - an AIW and a regular rage 128 Pro (I use the wonderful multi-monitor feature of windows 2000 - however did I live without it ...?).

If I add this PVR-250 card, and it's drivers, then I guess I'll have two 'sources' for capture - the rage theater for ATI, and whatever the PVR-250 provides?

And I CAN capture SVCD compliant MPEG2, right ... VBR, average 1500 to 2500 range, 480x480 ....? Must I demux/remux this capture before SVCD-authoring it?

Thanks!

[lennyt]

Bizuser:

After you do the original install from the program disk go to the Website and d/l all the latest drivers and updates. Good Luck!

[kitty]

Also check out www.shspvr.com - especially the news section.

[Bizuser]

Well, bought the card, and did a big-time cleanup of my system. Uninstalled all the ATI drivers and software; removed the ATI card; inserted new ATI Radeon 7500 card and all it's drivers; inserted the WinTV PVR-250 card and all it's drivers.

Downloaded all the updates from the Hauppauge site, including the latest 'beta' drivers for the InterVideo compatibility fixes.

First 'shock'/surprize was the fact that I can no longer capture to AVI in VDub or any 3rd party app; the WinTV PVR-250 does not support any 3rd party capture program - so I can't capture to anything but the native MPEG2. Since MPEG2 is what I asked for in my post, I can't complain, but it didn't occur to me that I would have to give up capture to AVI (in case I want to do more serious editing, etc). Oh well.

After about 10 re-installs and reboots, I'm just now getting to the point where I can launch the winTV2000 application without a lockup and do a record. Even now, on exit, I get a crash.

The direct-to-MPEG2 record does seem to work well; they have templates for VCD, SVCD (3 quality levels). The mpeg2 stream produced cannot be burned direct to SVCD, but with a simple pass through their included editor (nano...), I can get an SVCD compliant stream.

When I first installed the program, I was getting faint but noticable 'banding' (horizontal lines, slowly drifting down the screen) but that seems to have cleared up - either newer drivers, or a jiggle on the cable TV input cleaned that up ...

The S-Video input yields b/w only, but if I use the S-Video->RCA phono adapter, I get color. There is no provided RCA phono input for audio; only a stereo mini-jack. Luckily I had an adapter, but they really should have included this in the box!

Overall, seems to be very unstable, but constant attention to drivers may clean that up. Core record quality seems good. Really disappointed that it does not have a capture chip that is compatible with 3rd party apps.

[lpn1160]

I have a win2k pvr pci card. I found out that the only drivers that work properly with the card are the ones that are on the original disk that's supplied. the updated drivers just totaly screw up the whole system.
don't know what kind of chip is on the"250" but on mine I have the BT878.
Full avi caps in vdub @480x480 my system doesn't even break a sweat!!!
2hr caps and not a dropped frame or audio sych prob. but the mpeg2 caps @8000mbps are just not quite what I'd like. still can't beat an old .avi cap. stick with the original drivers and you should be fine

[kenmo]

"For Analog to MPEG2 captures, check out the Hauppauge WinTV PVR-250. As a Tivo device it is pretty lame"

I can not agree with the above.

I have been capturing movies on TV with WinTV PVR-250 using the TV Scheduler and the TV listings with great results. I edit out the commercials and then burn to SVCD and DVD. I also have the ATI All In Wonder Pro 128 but can not use for SVCD. ATI said it was not compatable, only the 2 latest models, the 128 does not work with MMC 7.7. I found that out the hard way and I had to reinstall the whole graphic card. PVR-250 is a very good buy for the price ($99-$149). The only feature it does not have is TV Out to a VCR.

Just currious. What software do you use to edit out tv ads from a mpeg capture ?

[SHS]

Bizuser as for svideo read how to use it rigth on this page http://www.shspvr.com/howto/wintv_channel_setup.html
The biggest problem with 3rd party apps is they need YUV not everrbody can capture at high rez without frame drop all over the place I don't care what joe said down the road where he said I can cap 720x480 on my BT8x8 well I can't that why I have Hardware encoder in the first place becuase I can't get to do it.
By the way Bizuser dose your say Hauppauge WinTV-PVR PCI II (encoder-16) in the device manager?.

[jfebus]

HI SHS,

Is really the pvr 250 a good card? I am looking for a way to capture in mpeg2 format and I have tried several other card with out any luck. I need to capture in full and half d1 resolution and up to 8mbps.

Thanks,

[lennyt]

For a small movie I edit with TMPGEnc/tools/Merge & Cut but for anything over 1 hr I use Intervideo DVDCreator because you can drop the video into a timeline to edit and it's the only program that lets me fast jog through the video without freezing up the computer.

[SHS]

Hi jfebus I think so but don't take my word for it ask the other on PVR forum few of them where Dazzel DVC2 user and some ProVideo user etc, etc.
8mbps you can push all way to 12mbps with VBR on.

[lpn1160]

Edit out commercials on an mpeg2 cap would be the same as a dvd rip,use dvd2avi,frameserve with avisynth and encode back to dvd format

[Bizuser]

SHS -

By the way Bizuser dose your say Hauppauge WinTV-PVR PCI II (encoder-16) in the device manager?.

It says 'Hauppauge WinTV-PVR PCI II (Encoder)'. Does not say encoder-16. Is this good or bad?

I posted results of a comparison capture using the PVR-250 and my ATI AIW separately in this forum.

lpn1160 -

Edit out commercials on an mpeg2 cap would be the same as a dvd rip,use dvd2avi,frameserve with avisynth and encode back to dvd format

If all you need is to edit out commercials, decoding the MPEG2 stream to AVI (thats what avisynth is doing behind the scenes), editing, and re-encoding is not only overkill (and time consuming), but detrimental to the image due to cascading lossy compression. There are several editors that will let you edit the MPEG2 stream without encoding. The PVR-250 comes with a simple 'cut' editor that makes cuts on I-frame boundaries, thus avoiding the need to re-encode.

Also, lpn1160 - sounds like your card (win2k pvr pci card) is quite different from the pvr-250. The 250 does not have the BT878 chip, and therefore does not support avi capture by 3rd party apps. Pity. In the test results I just posted separately, I found that doing a 480x480 cap and resizing down to VCD format gave better results than a native MPEG2 cap in pvr-250.

The Hauppauge product line is very confusing to me - it's not obvious from the literature what's the difference between pvr-250 and pvr-pci. A review of their website, with the value of hindsight, tells me that the pvr-pci does everything the pvr-250 does, PLUS it supports AVI capture .... darn, I would have bought that one had I known!

[SHS]

Bizuser your fine I just wondering that all as for comparison of the WinTV-PVR look under Review page on shspvr.
Yes editing MPEG can be a real pain but fast forword on the remote dose wonder unless you want go thur the video and just add chapters point to skip out the commercials.
But the real bitch is scolling thur the video on big MPEG files which all the DVD Authoring Software package seem to have this problem .
As the old saying gose there more then one way to skin cat .