Help with ATI AIW to a VCR - Poor quality and issues

[arcorob]

I have not used the out to VCR (TV out ) function in some time, usually create VCD's but heres the problem.

I want to copy out to a VCR. I hook VIDEO out to VCR and AUDIO out from soundcard. Now I seem to remember that was all I had to do and whatever I played in the ATI player recorded. Not anymore.

The only wa yI get to record to VCR is by going to SETTINGS and changing display to TV. Then having to use a FULL SCREEN video otherwise I get my windows background. How does this work for others ? I mean, I really think I would have remembered having to switch to TV mode and going full screen, etc.

Second problems is the BRIGHTNESS out to video tape is too high. I have toned down the movie itself in rendering and its dwonright dark, but out to video tape, things like faces, a wedding dress, a window are like PALE death. How do I adjust this ?

Sorry for the long question . I have no issues with creating vcd's but out to a VCR is downright crappy.

Rob

[mdm]

That's the way the TV out works on the ATI cards (and most cards I think) - they will send whatever would normally display on your monitor to a TV...hmm...

...I just tried the "Print to Tape" option in Media Studio Pro. After I selected the desired file, it blanked my screen and started the video (I could here the audio playing). I presume it was sending the video to the Video Out port (on my AIW Radeon), but I can't verify it. That sounds a *little* easier than turning on the TV out.

[arcorob]

I know thats how it should work...But what is driving me bonkers is I would swear it wa snot necessary before. Maybe I had a GOOD FLAW , but I seem to remember clearly Just playing in the small ATI screen and whatever was there, capturing to video tape. With all the hassles of the TV monitor mode and the squished screen and having to be in FULLSCREEN mode, I think I would remember.

One other issue, my final output also has BLACK around it. Say 10% , left top and right, 20% bottom.

How do I get it FULL FULL SCREEN ? This is really ticking me off because I have a copy of a tape I created before like I said and it is perfect. Screen size, picture, etc and I KNOW I did not do anything special...

HELP ATI EXPERTS !!!

[mdm]

Strange, I've been using AIW cards since the original, and I don't remember being able to do it that way (that doesn't mean you couldn't, just that *I* have never seen it).

What is the resolution of your video? I know the TV out only worked for 640x480 and 800x600 - if your video does not fit correctly within those specs (either exactly or when enlarged) you're likely to see black borders.

[arcorob]

My video source is standard MPEG VCD 352 by 240

TV monitor set for 800 by 600...Could that be it ???.

I also tried AVI 740 by 480 or whatever the heck it is

When you render a video, what do you set it for ? What do you set your monitor for ? Thanks

[pepegot1]

I have no problems dumping to Tape. Follow this:

1. Select MMC/Video IN (yes, IN)
2. Check to see that record speed is SP (best Quality)
3. On your VCR Remote punch in INPUT to LINE(it should appear on the screen).
4. Close ATI MMC
5. Set video to 800X600
6. Enable TV (Right click desktop/settings/advance/display) Click the TV button
7. Screen may darken, pay it no mind, the output will be fine).
8. Open your player select your clip to FULL SCREEN. I use Elecard cause it works for all MPEG1 & 2 clips. My ATI Player is good only for MPEG1
9. Record your clip from the computer and remote.
10. It should come out well.

[mdm]

arcorob:

I think I know what your quality problem is. It's true that 352x240 closely resembles VHS quality...when played at that resolution or from VCD. The problem is when you full-screen it on your PC, you are actually sending an enlarged and blocky version (exactly what you see on your screen) to the tape. When you send to VHS tape, the quality of the video will be lowered to the capabilities of the VHS format, so you are first enlarging your original (and thus lowering the quality on screen) and then basically shrinking it to tape and lowering the quality again. If you set your monitor resolution to 640x480 before the output to tape, the quality drop will not be as bad.

As for the black borders, it would be expected to have them on either the top/bottom or left/right (due to the desktop res. and enlarging your video), but I wouldn't expect it on all sides.

I have done what you are trying, even back on my original AIW, with decent results. When I make title screens or custom video clips to put on tape, I make them at 640x480 and then set my monitor res. to the same before taping. This means the quality only has to be reduced once in the process.

To put a video of that res. to tape, you might be better off burning a VCD and hooking up a DVD player to a VHS deck and copying it that way.

[arcorob]

Thank you all...I will experiment this week. It is just too strange. Somehow or another I think I had a loophole before where all I did was play in the ATI player (mini-box size ) and it recorded only that. Full screen , great picture and very easy to do. When I had to get out the manual to see what to do (enable TV mode on monitor, etc) I was floored. I am fairly computer savvey and I would swear I would remember..But then again, if I am losing my mind, i wouldn't remember I was would I ? LOL

Anyway, thanks again...will try this week. Ihave been using Sonic Foundry Video Factory 2 and love it for rendering. I also have not had any trouble with my ATI card (used MMC 7.2, 7.5 and 7.6) , no issues.

[arcorob]

One other question....maybe two

How do I select MMC video IN ? I can select Tuner/Composite and S-video, but video in ?

And next, when you select the display as TV, does it SQUISH your screen so that you have a large black bar at top and bottom ? (sort of like a 16:9 tv )

Thanks again

[lusid]

For the best output to tape from an AIW, set the desktop to 640x480 and use a tweaker to enable overscan. That'll get rid of the black bars, and the image dimensions will be just about right.

You should adjust the overlay brightness in the ATI driver, along with the rest of the color correction settings.

[mdm]

I think "video IN" is only on the non-AIW cards that have video in capabilities (VIVO).

[arcorob]

Well, that was a disaster.

First, my monitor doesn't even HAVE a 640 X 480 mode unless I turn off DDC. ( I have a 21 inch IBM Flat trinitron)

Smallest standard is 800 by 600. Got it into 640 by 480 , did all I was told but FULL SCREEN mode with ATi or Windows Media play overlaps the screen. I would be recording the inner 60% of the screen. I am at a loss. I always thought full screen meant as large but not larger than the screen. I move th emouse and the screen rolls over to the parts not shown.

It also looked terrible and for some reason acted like it had dropped frames, even though the original has no dropped frames....

Now what ? Should I make the movie 720 by 480 AVI to be closer to 800 by 600 ???

[Under_]

Hi.

The TV out on those ATI cards is great when you can get the video overlay to display on the secondary monitor, which is what you're trying to do correct? Use the TV out as a secondary monitor so you don't have to switch primary displays all the time?

ATI changed this support in a couple of releases back. They even removed Theatre Mode at one point which pissed off a lot of users as it allowed primary montior overlay to display on the secondary monitor.

I think they stuck it back in since, but I'm not sure as I use Zoom Player with my Radeon8500 TV out to play video to my TV. All you need to do is make sure the 2nd display extends your desktop, and drag Zoom Player over. Then hit the "z" key to full screen zoom.

You can try setting the resolution lower than 1024x768, but I find I get the best picture using that resolution. Mind you I'm using X10's DVDAnywhere kit, so I'm stuck on composite, not S-Video.

If you're going to use Zoom Player, remember to set the resolution preset and aspect ratio. I think the default is source derived and 800x600. Meaning the image will be 800x600 even if you do full screen at a different resolution.

Hope this helps.

- Under

[lusid]

Well, that was a disaster.

First, my monitor doesn't even HAVE a 640 X 480 mode unless I turn off DDC. ( I have a 21 inch IBM Flat trinitron)

Smallest standard is 800 by 600. Got it into 640 by 480 , did all I was told but FULL SCREEN mode with ATi or Windows Media play overlaps the screen. I would be recording the inner 60% of the screen. I am at a loss. I always thought full screen meant as large but not larger than the screen. I move th emouse and the screen rolls over to the parts not shown.

It also looked terrible and for some reason acted like it had dropped frames, even though the original has no dropped frames....

Now what ? Should I make the movie 720 by 480 AVI to be closer to 800 by 600 ???

The image is supposed to extend past the edges of the screen. Typically you only see the center 80-90% of the image on a TV, but that can vary widely from set to set. Still, it sounds like you aren't actually in 640x480 mode, but rather some sort of 800x600 with panning.

I've done a lot of comparisons between a regular tv feed and the tv-out on a radeon 7500, and found that a 640x480 display res with a video res of 704x480 and overscan enabled was the closest match. At 800x600 the image was excessively overscanned. ( this was on a dedicated PVR box, TV-out only, no monitor)

If going from VCD->VHS is something you think you'll be doing a lot of, the easiest way to do it is with a cheap $60 DVD player.

[arcorob]

Okay, I am still lost on this...(sorry, not being DUMB just so many issues) The movie back and forth between MONITOR and TV out also has played havoc (nice BLUE screens..XP memory DUMPS are big..LOL)

Basically, for anyone who can give me a simple solution. Here is how I am doing it.

Machine is active. Plug Video out to video in on VCR
Sound card out to audio in on VCR
Set screen to 800 by 600 as that is the SMALLEST I can go to without turning off DDC override.
Select DISPLAY and pick TV - Screen resets and I now have a screen that looks like a 16:9 widescreen. Why ? I don't know. everything SQUISHED.

I start up ATI file player, get full screen mode, start recording. It records fine

except when I play back videotape on tv I lose 10 percent on left and right, 10 % on top and 20 % bottom....Not really lose, I have the WHOLE picture, but does not FILL the screen . Also, the lights are so overdriven , it looks bad.

I guess the easiest will be , BURN a VCD and copy to VHS as suggested. Maybe its that simple. I gather I will not have MACROVISION issues ?

Whay cant it do what it did ...namely, what I see in the ATI box, record out to vcr just like recording from a tv ? Everyone says it doesn't do that but I have the tapes. They are perfect....SIGH

[Prospero424]

Okay, let's start over.


I just read both of the threads you have going and I have gotten a better idea of what you're going through. I have been using my ATi TV-out to record to a VCR for years with excellent results, so I think we should be able to get this solved.

My first setup is with an Radeon 8500 128mb. I use an s-video cable from the card to the VCR. The display is set up as follows: i have my monitor display et up at 1280x1024 at 100hz, the secondary, TV out display is set up to clone my primary display, not as an extended destop, these are evil when trying to play back video, and I am using the "theater" overlay mode so that I can simply minimize the movie while recording and go on with my other business.

With my other setup, the Radeon 64 ViVO, I set up my primary display at 800x600 and simply had the secondary display (TV) clone it. I then used my favorite player set at full-screen and recorded away. Much simpler, but not as powerful.

On both of these setups the first thing I had to do after installing each card (and after updating the drivers each time) was (I'm going to go through this step by step, just to be sure) open up Windows display properties, go to advanced settings, click on the "displays" tab. Then click on the TV bar (not the button to activate the display, the bar attached to it) here you can adjust the display size, position, brightness, sharpness etc. I was able to get the picture centered and adjusted perfectly on all three of my TVs this way.

Let me know if this was helpful or completely useless, I am trying to give you an idea of how a successful configuration for your desired pruposes is set up.

One question, which AIW version are you using and do you have the latest Catalyst drivers AND the latest WDM capture drivers (these come seperately form the Catalysts) installed?

Prospero

[arcorob]

It is helpful...I have been semi-successful.

I have been through EVERY setup panel there is (LOL ) and I have at least gotton out to VCR with black borders. Shifting the TV setup shifts the borders so I kinda see what I need there, but the picture is horrid.

I think the biggest issue is I don't HAVE theater overlay or catalyst. I have an ATI ALL IN WONDER RAGE 128 PRO (pre radeon)..so that software doesn't work. I am using MMC 7.2 and have used 7.6 and 7.7 ...But without RADEON drivers (theater, catalyst) I think I am syuck though others are successful.

Yes I have several threads going...LOL..But the easiest solution thus far has been

Burn a VCD. Hook DVD player to VHS and dub over. Looks fine. I am trying an SVCD now to get a better picture ...Just about to burn it and see if one of my DVD players will play SVCD. UGGG...

You know , it would be so easy if ATI just set it up so that ATI PLAYER out to VCR would work from the ATI window, NOT display screen. I would swear it did once for me....But i must be smelling disk drives too much...LOL

THANKS !!!!