Best video capture: Composite or S-Video?

[craigdallen]

Which card would I be better off buying for video capture and game playing?

ATI Radeon AIW 32 - has both Composite and S-Video in for capture
ATI Radeon 64 VIVO - has only Composite in for capture

Is there much difference between the capture on either type of input?

I plan on capturing home video (8mm camcorder stuff), editing, and burning to VCD for playback on a home DVD player.

I am a only a moderate game player.

Would the purchase of the 64 VIVO (with it's 64MB RAM) be a better choice for all around card? <or> Does the extra 32MB of RAM really make any difference in gaming?

Is the trade off of the AIW 32's lower amount of memory worth the ability to video capture with S-Video?

Thanks,
Craig

[Sefy]

Lets start with that I hate ATI card and wouldn't buy one even if you paid me for it
that out of the way, a card with S-Video would be much better for capture, as it will provide much sharper video quality.

amount of card RAM won't help better capture quality, it's just for games

[patrickm]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
amount of card RAM won't help better capture quality, it's just for games
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yup, he's exactly right on that point. in fact, there's not even any real need to get a radeon unless you're a gamer. the AIW 128 and AIW 128 Pro do every bit as well at video capture as the AIW radeon, cost about half as much, and have real VFW driver support for better captures in win9x. they also do both s-video and composite inputs and outputs. the only caveat is to make sure if you happen to buy the PCI AIW 128 that you make sure it has the 'Rage Theater' capture chip on it. a few early versions (1999 OEM models) came with a BT829 chip instead. All 32 MB versions have the Rage Theater, as do MOST of the 16M PCI versions. but ask before you buy, or make the store open it up or check with ATI based on serial #.

[Sefy]

Or get yourself a seperate Capture Card, so if you ever decide to upgrade your Display Card, you won't lose the capturing ability as well, and if your Capture chip goes bad, you won't need to replace your Display Card, it's more protected investment and cheaper as well.

[Causality]

craigdallen, video ram beyond, say 16 megs, is used by most cards only for render mapping info storage. The basic "flat" image goes straight through. Then the card uses it's memory cache hold the render effects it paints on after the flat image is up. 64 megs of ram is currently not taken advantage of by 99% of games on the market. It was thought by board manufacturers that game developers would be using huge texture maps by now for rendering. But most games are being written with the GeF2 MX 32 in mind. The ATI 3D chipset will be (is) dead long before you exhaust 64 megs of video memory. If you HAVE to buy an ATI for display save some money and get the 32 meg card. Otherwise, buy a $50 GeF2 MX 32 buy any game you want and run it at up to 800x600 16 bit color. At this res you'll get 50 fps in games and have $150 left for a capture card.

OK, I know display cards pretty well because they'er easy to research. But, this seems to be the only place for straight talk on capture. On this site, it's hard to find two people that agree on ATI. I've done a little informal statistical analysis and it's a dead split between people who hate and love ATI's capturing traits. I have found a source for new ATI AIW 128 Pro PCI at $79. No cables or software. Obviously, I'm not going to use this for any thing except tranferring video to VCD. From CVHS of the kids to high quality SVCD captures off S-Video DSS feeds.

1.)IF the chip is a "Rage Theater" am I going to be happy with the MPEG1 VHS and MPEG2 S-video captures?
2.)Do I need the ATI software that comes with the retail version of this card or can I download drivers and use third party (VirtDub)utiities?
3.)I think some of the cables are proprietary. How hard will it be to find cables for this card?

[Arkansas]

Hi,

I'd like to ask a question that is nearly related to this topic. If my VCR is not SVHS, but only VHS, does it make any difference if I use S-Video or Composite to capture from tape?

[Causality]

If your VCR has an S-video jack it has to be sending a higher res (horizontal line count) signal or the TV S-video tuner couldn't read it correctly. By all means use it. I'm not sure, but I think that VHS is capable of a higher line count than the NTSC standard. Maybe someone who knows can comment.

[4A-GE]

For: Arkansas

No. 3 reasons. SVHS=S-Video VHS. If your VCR doesn't support it, which many doesn't then composite is the only option. The difference is the lines on the TV. S-Video 400 lines, composite 200 lines. S-Video was created to take advantage of DVD 400-500 lines and other high output devices. So what is means is the regular VCR can only do up to 200 lines and VCR with S-video can record up to 400 lines. The output is limited by the VCR so the there shouldn't be a difference capturing from tape using s-video. Big TV with S-video can't take advantage of S-Video 400 lines due to the NTSC/PAL standard since the resolution doesn't change but the size does. So only small tv can do 400 lines.

[Arkansas]

Then I guess composite will have to do for me. Thanks for your help!

[adamp007]

So to that end,

Given the choice between composite Miro DC30 capture and SVideo ATI on an AIW128 card which would give the better quality at the same compression?

Cheers
Adam

[4A-GE]

Well it depends on what you want. But most importantly what kind of source do you have. regular vhs or svhs? if you have vhs then the micro dc30 will do and svhs the AIW will do. Note: RAdeon 64 VIVO does have S-video input support I believe.

[patrickm]

check out http://www.compusa.com this week, they have the ATI AIW 128 16Mb PCI on sale for $49 after rebates. s-video/composite inputs and outputs, tv tuner, and should coexist in a PCI slot alongside another AGP card.

i thought they used to have a FAQ on the ATI site about what configurations could do capture and dual display, but since it was useful, they probably removed it... at worst you could set up multiple "hardware profiles" in windows, one with both cards for 2 displays, one with only AGP for games, and one for only PCI for captures.

as long as it has the rage theater capture chip (which it should, only really really old 16Mb PCI versions had the BT8x capture will be every bit as good as the Radeon. (actually, the BT chip is supposed to be a little better for MPEG-1 VCD, but i'd go with the one intended for better MPEG-2 and high-bitrate performance)

[craigdallen]

The Radeon 64 VIVO has only Composite IN and Composite/S-Video OUT.

The Radeon AIW has both Composite/S-Video IN/OUT..

This is my original point.

Is S-Video IN significantly better over Composite? Does it only matter if the source is SVHS over VHS? Would this also apply to High-8mm over 8mm?

If the input really doesn't matter in capture, then I will go with the Radeon 64VIVO. But if does make a big difference, then I will go with the Radeon AIW..

Note: I appreciate the comments, however even though many think ATI sucks, there are many that think ATI is OK. I believe most issues are driver related as opposed to h/w related.

[Anonymous65]

To visually compare composite and S-Video capture, look at http://www.geocities.com/skittelsen/digital.htm

SK

[craigdallen]

Thanks for the link..

If my source is VHS, do you think that a S-Video would improve the capture?

Also,
My camcorder is High-8mm, with S-Video out. If I use High-8 tape media, I should get up to 400 lines of vertical.

I am I correct in that High-8 is simular to SVHS in terms of resolution?

[Greg12]

Quality from best to worst

Componate video
S-Video
Composite video
RF video

[Anonymous65]

If the source is VHS, then you will still gain a little bit in the form of less chroma noise if you use S-Video for capturing. And yes, Hi-8 is basically the same as S-VHS in quality, and you will gain quality by using S-Video for capturing.

Sk