VHS Capture - S-Video or Composite?

[Killer3737]

Alright so i'm planning to capture some VHS to PC, i already have a good VHS and a Capture card. The capture card has two video input options, S-Video or Composite (single yellow RCA lead). Which would give me the better results? From random web searches it seems to be S-Video, but if so, why?

Secondly because my VCR only has Scart output for Video, i'd need a convertor. I was looking at something like this -



But can anyone recommend a good brand/type? I can't afford to spend a lot, probably £25 tops, but i also don't want a cheap £5 deal. The one above is Vivanco and £20, but could i do any better?

Cheers
Simon

[jagabo]

S-video would normally be better that composite. But your VCR may not output s-video unless it's an SVHS deck.

[Killer3737]

S-video would normally be better that composite. But your VCR may not output s-video unless it's an SVHS deck.

If it doesn't and i were to use something like the above, would the results then be worse than if i used composite? Would i be therefore better off with a cable like this Monster one:

[jagabo]

Don't waste your money on Monster cables. You should be able to find a decent cable for less than the equivalent of US$20.

In the SCART connector composite shares a pin with s-video's luma. So if you try to use s-video and the VCR is only putting out composite you will get a black and white recording.

Try something like this and regular s-video and/or A/V cables:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Belkin-Composite-S-Video-Cnnctr-Mindin4M/dp/B000CI4UI8

[Killer3737]

Alright thanks. I mentioned that Monster cable because Play.com are selling it for £8 instead of the £30 RRP.

[jagabo]

Well at £8 that Monster cable is probably worth a try.

[Killer3737]

Hmm, well i can probably guess why that cable was so cheap. The connectors on the RCA are huge and concaved, so they won't go far enough into my capture card as they're just too fat.

[themaster1]

A cable with gold plated pins only makes sense if your vcr has gold plated in's or out's.
However, high end Vcr tend to only have gold plated pins on inputs (not outputs) to connect your analog camcorder for instance to your vcr.


What make more sense would be a shielded cable to avoid electromagnic disturbances though

[hiptune]

I had read years ago that unless there was a SVHS video recorded and being played back through the s-video connection, then you would not get any benefit using an s-video cable. That benefit relied on having those tapes.

But I would try a sample of both and compare them. I don't trust everything I read.

[SatStorm]

If your VCR offers S-Video on SCART (very rare) then use this.

Composite is not "bad", technically speaking for VHS even Composite is an overkill.

Now regarding what you gain by using S-Video for VHS tapes, the answer is simply: Less colour bleed, better overall colours, and in some cases even less jilter. You won't see any difference in picture details (sometimes, the flaws of the tape "enhance" and shows, so visually it might even show less good that way, believe me!).
A bonus side effect of using S-Video, is that you may be able to decode some teletext pages, recorded by fault to the tape back then.

[sdlehman]

You should run a test capture of both S-Video and composite and see which looks best to your eyes. Very machine dependant. I got superior results from composite from both VCR and Laserdisc captures.

Good Luck
Stace

[hiptune]

You should run a test capture of both S-Video and composite and see which looks best to your eyes. Very machine dependant. I got superior results from composite from both VCR and Laserdisc captures.

Good Luck
Stace

Sounds to me like something might be wrong with your laser disc player if composite looked better than s-video.

[edDV]

You should run a test capture of both S-Video and composite and see which looks best to your eyes. Very machine dependant. I got superior results from composite from both VCR and Laserdisc captures.

Good Luck
Stace

Sounds to me like something might be wrong with your laser disc player if composite looked better than s-video.

Unlike VHS, Laserdisc is native composite so composite out should always be used. Any S-Video out results from a cheap internal hardware NTSC/PAL decoder in the player. The decoder on a good capture card is almost always better than those in a laser player. For Laserdisc capture, look for a capture card with a good comb filter.

[Killer3737]

Alright i have another question. My capture card died somehow so i need to get another one. If i were to get this Leadtek WinFast TV 2000 XP Deluxe:



Would i negate the quality of my Monster lead by having to use the little adapter into the card (arrowed above)?.

[jagabo]

The Monster SCART adapter pictured earlier appears to have left and right audio RCA connectors and a composite video connector. Those would plug into the pigtail of the capture card.

[Killer3737]

The Monster SCART adapter pictured earlier appears to have left and right audio RCA connectors and a composite video connector. Those would plug into the pigtail of the capture card.

Yeah that's what i would have though, but that card apparantly doesn't have a conventional Svideo and yellow composite in, rather a unique 9 pin connection, which you use for both, hence the need for that adapter. So maybe a card that does have direct connections might be better.

[jagabo]

So maybe a card that does have direct connections might be better.

Many cards use pigtail adapters like that. It isn't going to effect quality in any significant way.

[hiptune]

You should run a test capture of both S-Video and composite and see which looks best to your eyes. Very machine dependant. I got superior results from composite from both VCR and Laserdisc captures.

Good Luck
Stace

Sounds to me like something might be wrong with your laser disc player if composite looked better than s-video.

Unlike VHS, Laserdisc is native composite so composite out should always be used. Any S-Video out results from a cheap internal hardware NTSC/PAL decoder in the player. The decoder on a good capture card is almost always better than those in a laser player. For Laserdisc capture, look for a capture card with a good comb filter.

Okay. I have a few LD players and one is a very high end Panny whoich is rebagged Denon if memory is correct.

I wonder why they were putting s-video jacks on the back of the units if it was not going to improve picture quality.

I use Canopus ADVC-500 for capture from composite, S, or component, as this unit has all there to pick from. I guess I'd better go back to composite for LD captures then. Or at least compare the output of each on a large TV before making final decision.

[edDV]

You should run a test capture of both S-Video and composite and see which looks best to your eyes. Very machine dependant. I got superior results from composite from both VCR and Laserdisc captures.

Good Luck
Stace

Sounds to me like something might be wrong with your laser disc player if composite looked better than s-video.

Unlike VHS, Laserdisc is native composite so composite out should always be used. Any S-Video out results from a cheap internal hardware NTSC/PAL decoder in the player. The decoder on a good capture card is almost always better than those in a laser player. For Laserdisc capture, look for a capture card with a good comb filter.

Okay. I have a few LD players and one is a very high end Panny whoich is rebagged Denon if memory is correct.

I wonder why they were putting s-video jacks on the back of the units if it was not going to improve picture quality.

I use Canopus ADVC-500 for capture from composite, S, or component, as this unit has all there to pick from. I guess I'd better go back to composite for LD captures then. Or at least compare the output of each on a large TV before making final decision.

Yes, if you have a high end unit then you are comparing comb filters. In the 80's/early 90's a good 2D comb filter was expensive to implement. By the 2000's 3D comb filters became common in HDTV sets. I'm not sure what the ADVC-500 uses since it normally captures S-Video, Y, B-Y, R-Y or YPbPr component.

I was talking about normal consumer Laserdisc players.

Other native composite professional VTR formats include 2"quad, 1" IVC, 1" Type B, 1"Type C, D2, D3

[Killer3737]

S-video would normally be better that composite. But your VCR may not output s-video unless it's an SVHS deck.

If it doesn't and i were to use something like the above, would the results then be worse than if i used composite? Would i be therefore better off with a cable like this Monster one:

Alright yet more issues, i have the capture card, this cable, connected it all up and when i tried capturing just a black screen. Fiddled around a bit, still a black screen. Thinking it might be the cable, i swapped it out for a cheap convertor box that i had like this, and used some cheap RCA cables to connect. Voila, i see my VCR picture and can capture.

So, my first guess is that the scart lead only goes in one direction, in. I'm guessing there is no way around that, unless i opened up the scart and swapped the comosite cable around, but that's not possible as the Monster cable is a sealed unit.

So, back to step one again i guess, what to buy that will give me the best quality/connection? I would just use the convertor box and rca leads, but i can see it's giving me interference in the picture that i don't see when i playback the VCR on my TV with a good scart lead.

Would my best bet just be to get a good brand/quality scart/rca convertor and good RCA cables?

[jagabo]

Alright yet more issues, i have the capture card, this cable, connected it all up and when i tried capturing just a black screen. Fiddled around a bit, still a black screen. Thinking it might be the cable, i swapped it out for a cheap convertor box that i had like this, and used some cheap RCA cables to connect. Voila, i see my VCR picture and can capture.

So, my first guess is that the scart lead only goes in one direction, in. I'm guessing there is no way around that, unless i opened up the scart and swapped the comosite cable around, but that's not possible as the Monster cable is a sealed unit.

Those type of adapters usually go both directions because they simply connect the pins at one end of the cable to pins at the other. Maybe there's something odd about that particular cable.

So, back to step one again i guess, what to buy that will give me the best quality/connection? I would just use the convertor box and rca leads, but i can see it's giving me interference in the picture that i don't see when i playback the VCR on my TV with a good scart lead.

Would my best bet just be to get a good brand/quality scart/rca convertor and good RCA cables?

They will all be about the same. The noise your are seeing is probably a ground loop issue. Generally, cables can't fix this. You need to look at things like plugging all the devices into the same powerstrip or power outlet. Removing the cable TV COAX if connected anywhere. If you have an internal capture card you can try moving it to a different slot. As far away from any other internal components (like a graphics card or ethernet adapter) as possible. You might try a video opto isolator but they aren't cheap -- several hundred dollars.

[Killer3737]

Indeed there is, i looked at the cable again and it does state it's one directional on the wire itself, with an arrow pointing towards the scart end. Odd, but ah well.

Alright i'll stick with what i've got and try those things you mentioned. I do have two other PCI cards either side of the capture card so that could be it, one is the soundcard which obviously needs to stay in, but the other can come out and move the two further apart.

Thanks for the help.