Trouble with 4K. Raw looks great. After Render looks awful. Why?

[jungleexplorer]

So, I got a new 4K action camera, the Akaso V50 Pro. It has 2400 5-star review son amazon, so I felt it was a safe bet to get a decent camera. Well, it takes good 4K footage. I mean for the price that is. Good enough for my use. My problem is, when I try to edit the footage and render it, the resulting footage looks like it came out of a cheap VGA flip phone from the 1990s. I am using Corel Video studio 2019 to edit and render the footage, and I do not have this problem when rendering 4K footage from my Sony A6500 camera or my Samsung Galaxy S8 smartphone. 4K footage from those devices turns out great when I render them in Video Studio 2019.

The only difference between the files from my A6500 camera and S8 smartphone and the V50 Pro is that the A6500 and the S8 record to an MP4 and the V50 records to MOV. Here are the details of the MOV file out of the V50. Maybe someone smarter then me can decipher what is going on here and offer me a solution.


General
Complete name :Akaso V50\20170101_121110.MOV
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : Base Media
File size : 1 005 MiB
Duration : 2 min 9 s
Overall bit rate : 65.3 Mb/s
Encoded date : UTC 2017-01-01 12:11:10
Tagged date : UTC 2017-01-01 12:11:10

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High
Format level : 5.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, Referenc : 1 frame
Muxing mode : Container profile=Main@5.1
Codec ID : avc1
Duration : 2 min 9 s
Bit rate : 65.2 Mb/s
Width : 3 840 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 30.000 FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.262
Stream size : 1 003 MiB (100%)
Encoded date : UTC 2017-01-01 12:11:10
Tagged date : UTC 2017-01-01 12:11:10
Color range : Full
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709
Codec_configuration_box : avcC

Audio
ID : 2
Format : AAC LC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
Codec ID : mp4a-40-2
Duration : 2 min 9 s
Source duration : 2 min 9 s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 128 kb/s
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel layout : L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 1.97 MiB (0%)
Source stream size : 1.97 MiB (0%)
Encoded date : UTC 2017-01-01 12:11:10
Tagged date : UTC 2017-01-01 12:11:10

[poisondeathray]

Does it look ok before you import it? Say in a media player like VLC, MPCHC etc.. ?

Does it look ok in the editor preview, before you encode it ?

Did you use the same settings as the other cameras ? For the project/timeline and export/render ?



This one is full range, that should affect levels depending on how it's handled, not necessarily encoding quality directly . "Cheap VGA phone" implies something like low bitrate encode, or maybe you're not describing the problem accurately ?

Color range : Full

[jungleexplorer]

Does it look ok before you import it? Say in a media player like VLC, MPCHC etc.. ?

Does it look ok in the editor preview, before you encode it ?

Did you use the same settings as the other cameras ? For the project/timeline and export/render ?



This one is full range, that should affect levels depending on how it's handled, not necessarily encoding quality directly . "Cheap VGA phone" implies something like low bitrate encode, or maybe you're not describing the problem accurately ?

Color range : Full

Yes, as I said in the OP title, "Raw looks great". The original file produced by the V50 looks fine in all players and in the Editor. But when rendered it looks like complete crap. In Video Studio you have to option to render to the exact same file settings ats the clip itself using SMART RENDER, which means that the editor will not process the footage that matches the same setting as the file. Theoretically, it should not mess with the file and you should have a final a result which exactly the same as the original. But it does not work with the files out of the V50. The resulting files are unplayable.

Now I have been running a test with HandBrake. I have converted a file from the V50 to about 10 different HQ presets and all of them end up being visually worse than the original. I am currently processing a file to the Matroska H.265 MKV 2160p60 preset, modifying the frame rate to 29.97 Constant.

[poisondeathray]

Re-encoding with lossy compression with something like handbrake will always produce worse results. That's expected.

"smart render" only works with cuts type editing. It's basically stream copying the video.

But if you add a filter, or color correct, overlays, etc... that forces a re-encode

Maybe you didn't set the correct same matching settings as the file , which could force a re-encode

If you think you've set it up correctly, and it's not working as expected - you should contact corel support, they might need a sample

[poisondeathray]

If you think "MOV" container is the problem, you can re-wrap it into a MP4 container to see if you can "trick" the program

Re-wrapping is lossless - it's just swapping containers. It's like taking the audio and video out of one "box" and putting into another "box"

eg ffmpeg

ffmpeg -i input.mov -c:v copy -c:a copy output.mp4

[jungleexplorer]

Re-encoding with lossy compression with something like handbrake will always produce worse results. That's expected.

"smart render" only works with cuts type editing. It's basically stream copying the video.

But if you add a filter, or color correct, overlays, etc... that forces a re-encode

Maybe you didn't set the correct same matching settings as the file , which could force a re-encode

If you think you've set it up correctly, and it's not working as expected - you should contact corel support, they might need a sample

No, I am not adding anything. Procress = Add the file to the timeline, go to SHARE, select "Same as First Clip" and render. Result = Total Crap. File plays, but is stuck in 1-second repeating loop while audio plays on. Same thing occurs if I try to use the SAVE, "Save Trimmed Clip" feature. Rendering the file with the VS 4K/30P preset, results in a file that will play, but looks like you are watching a video a glass window on a rainy day.

[jungleexplorer]

Oh, and contacting Corel CS is a joke. They will just blame the camera manufacturer for "non-standard" encoding. Been down that road before. It goes nowhere.

And I have converted the file in HandBrake to several preset, including 1080P presets, not just 4K. The results just look bad. Some better, some worse, but nothing that comes close to the original file quality.

[october262]

Oh, and contacting Corel CS is a joke. They will just blame the camera manufacturer for "non-standard" encoding. Been down that road before. It goes nowhere.

And I have converted the file in HandBrake to several preset, including 1080P presets, not just 4K. The results just look bad. Some better, some worse, but nothing that comes close to the original file quality.

does the camera have the latest firmware update ?? - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_txXyiZ9OqI

[aedipuss]

post an original(raw) clip

[jagabo]

post an original(raw) clip

And the same clip after you reencoded it -- for comparison.

[jungleexplorer]

Thanks for all the replies guys. I have been doing some testing and have narrowed the problem down a little. The video file I have been having trouble with is a fast action clip of me driving an ATV through the forest. I rendered some other clips of still scenes with no problem. So it appears that the problem is the scene. But it still has something to do the footage out of this camera. Because I was recording the scene on two other cameras (One 4K and one HD) and I am not having the rendering problems with the footage out of them that I am having with the footage out of the V50.

I would upload the original clip for you but since I cannot find any way to trim the original file down without destroying the quality, and the original file is massive, I can't do that. I can give you a sample clip of the rendered file though. As you will see, the video looks like there is a piece of plastic or glass in front of it that has water on it. I uploaded the clip to my dropbox so you can get the original.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ui30ajbl1qk8t30/Rendered%20V50%20Pro%20sample%20clip%2001.mp4?dl=0


I hope this is enough to get us moving towards a solution. I may upload the clip to YouTube and see if their software can do something with it.

[poisondeathray]

Fast action, foliage is difficult to compress . Encoders store the differences between frames.

So you'd need to use higher bitrates, or better encoder settings, or a better encoder to reduce the quality loss

If the other cameras were successfully using smart rendering , then it IS the original footage. If you shot that scene with those other cameras and smart rendering was not working, they would have the same problems . Does it give you an indication like a red bar or something that tells you if it's working or not ? Or it should process very fast if it was working, because it's just copying the file. But if was re-encoding it would be much slower

[Sharc]

Your clip is demanding for an encoder: Trees, grass, fast moving. Apparently all details got mashed/lost.
The average bitrate of 36.6Mbit/s may not be sufficient for your encoder, and secondly the maximum bitrate is capped to 40Mbit/s hence your encode is almost CBR.

You could try
- to increase the maximum bitrate, and/or
- to downscale the resolution to say 1920x1080
and see what you get out of it.

[jungleexplorer]

Fast action, foliage is difficult to compress . Encoders store the differences between frames.

So you'd need to use higher bitrates, or better encoder settings, or a better encoder to reduce the quality loss

If the other cameras were successfully using smart rendering, then it IS the original footage. If you shot that scene with those other cameras and smart rendering was not working, they would have the same problems. Does it give you an indication like a red bar or something that tells you if it's working or not ? Or it should process very fast if it was working, because it's just copying the file. But if was re-encoding it would be much slower

Correct. My thoughts exactly. But when I use smart render and set it to use the settings of the file itself, it does render almost immediately, which would mean that it did not reencode the file, but the resulting file, is unplayable. It will play, but only the first second of video plays and is stuck in a loop while the audio plays on. So while the speed at which renders would indicate that it did not actually reencode the file, it did something to it.

Now in Handbrake, I was able to convert the file from MOV to MP4 using the Matroska H.265 MKV 2160p60 Preset and changing the frame rate to 30fps. The resulting file was about 95% as good as the original file. But when I tried to render this new MP4 file produced in Handbrake, in VideoStudio, I got the same results as I did when I rendered the original MOV file out of the V50.

The question is, why can I render the video files out of the other two cameras of the same scene with no problems, but not this one? Yes, I know that complex fast action scenes are difficult, but since the other two clips of the same exact scene are working fine, it would indicate that the problem is with the footage out of the V50.

I had a similar problem years ago with some HD footage out of a Panasonic camera. The footage was of an American Dipper bird in a Colorado mountain river (extremely complex). The original footage was amazing, but I could not render that footage to anything that did not completely destroy it. Even youtube could not work with it. But I was able to get at least a mildly better result by upscaling the clip from 1080p to 1440p and uploading to YouTube, which forced YouTube to encode it with VP9 instead of the AVC codec they use for 1080p videos. It is not as good as the original, but at least it is watchable. https://youtu.be/M-h6Jx8rx10

If you look at the technical data I posted in the OP, you will see that the 4K file was encoded with AVC. I wonder if that is the problem here?

[pepegot1]

Videostudio 2019 has some serious bugs. VS 2020 has more. I wonder if you tried another NLE would you have the same problem?

[poisondeathray]

Videostudio 2019 has some serious bugs. VS 2020 has more. I wonder if you tried another NLE would you have the same problem?

I tried an earlier version a while back , I think 2017 and smart rendering was very very buggy . Glitches everywhere. Unusable

"Smart Rendering" really only works well with I-frame footage in other NLE's


Or dedicated smart rendering/ cutting application like videoredo

[poisondeathray]

If you look at the technical data I posted in the OP, you will see that the 4K file was encoded with AVC. I wonder if that is the problem here?

Compare the other cameras that work. Post their info

[jungleexplorer]

BOOM! AVC was the problem. I rendered the file using HEVC and it turned out great! Thanks for all the advice.

[jungleexplorer]

Videostudio 2019 has some serious bugs. VS 2020 has more. I wonder if you tried another NLE would you have the same problem?

I tried an earlier version a while back , I think 2017 and smart rendering was very very buggy . Glitches everywhere. Unusable

"Smart Rendering" really only works well with I-frame footage in other NLE's


Or dedicated smart rendering/ cutting application like videoredo

I have been using VS since the 1990s and while it is true that it has many gitches, I have not found another program that is any better. I have tried others and they all have their problems and a total lack of support or a company that even cares. Software companies these days are a disgrace across the board. They care NOTHING about refining and perfecting a product. They just keep adding useless features (bells and whistles) that nobody asked for and keep trying to resale them as New and Improved, while ignoring these base problems that plagued users year after year.

[Sharc]

Software companies these days are a disgrace across the board. They care NOTHING about refining and perfecting a product. They just keep adding useless features (bells and whistles) that nobody asked for and keep trying to resale them as New and Improved, while ignoring these base problems that plagued users year after year.

Very true unfortunately, for many commercial products

[jungleexplorer]

Well, I thought I had it fixed, but not quite. The video quality was good, but something did not seem right with the video. On close observation, the video was slightly jumpy. Dang! Well, it is back to the drawing board.